Firefighters let home burn over $75 fee -- again

ryanjoachim

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

I mean...come on. I understand that they didn't pay the fee...but why can't they just charge them what they would have "owed" in back pay instead of letting the house burn?

For example: They hadn't paid for 10 years, so charge them a $750 fee for putting the fire out. You get money, and they don't lose their house.

nooshinjohn

Agreed... they should have it set up that any home that has not paid their fee, shall have the fire put out, but their property will have a lien placed against it for the amount of all prior years late fees, and a penalty on top of that. It would be better than the current situation, and easier to collect money from a home that was saved than from one that has burned to a smoking crater.

Someday common sense will return to our society, hopefully I will live long enough to see it.

steveinaz

..and on the flip-side, why didn't the home owners JUST pay the $75 ($1.44 a week) annually? People need to learn to accept responsibility for their own actions. It's no different then buying a home way out of town, because you want peace and quiet---you accept the fact that emergency services will take longer to get to you.

Also--was the place a ball of flames when engines arrived? I've got a feeling we're not hearing the whole story on this. If you have a $50,000 mobile home that is half-burnt already, do you really think fire cheifs are going to risk death/injury to firefighters on something that is obviously going to be a total loss? There's a lot to consider---I seriously doubt the $75 fee had much of anything to do with it.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I agree with Steve and will add another point.

Allowing someone to pay their full dues when their house is saved would be like allowing me to pay up my last year of full coverage auto insurance AFTER I've had a wreck. Sorry, it doesn't work that way and allowing that is unfair to the people who do pay on time.

Those fire departments need that money collected in order to function, you don't just get to pay after you've actually needed their help, it doesnt work that way.

WilliamM2

steveinaz wrote: »

Also--was the place a ball of flames when engines arrived? I've got a feeling we're not hearing the whole story on this. If you have a $50,000 mobile home that is half-burnt already, do you really think fire cheifs are going to risk death/injury to firefighters on something that is obviously going to be a total loss? There's a lot to consider---I seriously doubt the $75 fee had much of anything to do with it.

Read the story. This has happened twice in that county now. The trucks were there, and did nothing. There's no risk of life and limb to just spray water on it. I agree they should have paid the fee, but if they are going to respond anyways, to make sure neighboring homes aren't damaged, why not put some water on it?

steveinaz

Maybe it will begin to sink in that the "whopping" $75 charge per year--may well be worth it?

There are people who feel that they don't need to pay. That somehow, somebody will do something for them. That's why this country is broke now.

Maybe the township needs to just incorporate the fee into the personal property tax. But this happened at the peril of a homeowner who chose to "roll the dice" and now they want to point fingers and cast blame on the fire department. BS I say.

ryanjoachim

If someone hasn't paid fees for fire services, then charge them fines after putting the fire out. Make it worthwhile for the department to continue to serve those who don't pay the fee.

Just letting a house burn down over $75 not paid to them is idiocy.

And, as always, this comes with a healthy dose of "IMO".

steveinaz

and IMO, not paying the $75/yr is idiocy. If the word gets around that they will put out your fire anyway---how many people do you think would pay the $75 up front? They need the money for day-to-day operations/sustainment; not just when you happen to have a fire.

I've been paying for car insurance since I was 16; I'm now almost 50, and I've never had a single claim. Does that chap my ****? You bet it does, but I still pay to have insurance.

A free society can only work when everyone does what they are suppose to do. If 50% of the population is slacking off, guess who pays the difference? THE TAXPAYER. (you and me).

How much confusion can there be in: IF YOU WANT FIRE DEPARTMENT SUPPORT, YOU MUST PAY $75 ANNUALLY. If you "choose" not to pay, you've just become you're own fire department.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Steve, you've made every point I would make, agree with you 100%.

steveinaz

This is how government ends up "entangled" in our business---lazy suckers that don't do the right thing. So what happens next? Probably they WILL add the fee to some sort of tax...now guess what? YOU NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. Sound familiar?

Shizelbs

Sad? yes. Why should someone expect a service that they have not paid for?

SDA1C

Though I agree that if you don't pay you don't get the service I must wonder what percentage of already paid taxes is going to the FD anyway. Like stated earlier....at least set a fire curtain for the peace of mind to others that paid their fee.

dkg999

I'm going to guess it was a condition of their homeowners insurance to pay the fee, so they are probably out any insurance reimbursement for damages. Why the annual fee wouldn't be escrowed as part of the taxes/insurance included with a mortgage is an issue now. I agree, pay the annual fee or keep some smore's make'in materials handy.

danger boy

steveinaz wrote: »

If 50% of the population is slacking off, guess who pays the difference? THE TAXPAYER. (you and me).

50 % or more of the population IS slacking off these days.. everyone wants a hand out of some kind... even if they don't need it. not only that people are hoarding things.. and the people who really need it are being left out.

case in point.. my office does a turkey drive each year and raise enough in donations to purchase 11,000 turkeys for low income families to have a turkey on Thanksgiving. the need was greater than ever this year. people were taking a turkey and coming through the line again two or three times... and you can tell that not all of them needed more than just one turkey. that's why we ran out..
people hoarding **** and leaving squat for the rest.

ok, end of rant and end of off topic hijack.

steveinaz

We have a number of out-lying communties such as Elgin and Sonoita. These folks have the same arrangement. They pay X amount of dollars to sustain their own Fire Departments, because by the time Sierra Vista FD gets there, their ranch would be dust. PAY YOUR SHARE, it's just that simple. But yet, you've always got that "few" who feel they don't have to pay--oh well, they'll get no sympathy from me either.

EndersShadow

WHAT?!?!?! You mean I cant get something for nothing....... How can that be American :twisted: I thougth thats what welfare, food stamps, etc were for :eek:

I remember something about "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of making others pay to support me"..... hehehe

I agree with steve 100% on this.

I have renters insurance (havent ever had a fire yet), I have a insurance policy on my wifes ring (it hasnt been lost or stolen yet), I have insurance on my wifes life (havent used it either :eek:).

Risk Reward ratios are a part of everday life. Is that more expensive health insurance plan worth the extra premium, etc....Is it worth risking your house and everything in it for 75 bucks? For some I guess yes.

EndersShadow

Bell and her boyfriend said they were aware of the policy, but thought a fire would never happen to them.

They dont have an excuse for not paying, they were aware of the policy and were willing to risk their house and its contents for the reward of keeping a paltry 75 bucks.

In a nearby county, rural homeowners can purchase a $110 subscription to cover fires, but they can also pay on the spot for fire protection: $2,200 for the first two hours firefighters are on the scene and $1,100 for each additional hour, according to dailytimes.com.

Compared to the fees above 75 bucks seems like a steal

steveinaz

Exactly, so why don't they own up and say "hey, we eff'd up, our bad" and move along? I don't mind people making stupid choices, as long as they are willing to suffer the consequences.

dkg999

OK, now you had to bring up consequences :redface:

dorokusai

If the fire trucks were dispatched to the scene, then it was determined that they couldn't work the fire, is a gross waste of the towns' money as well. The other taxpayers who are paying the fee and subscribing to being saved, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, should be complaining since their fees will eventually go up to cover these costs. They can easily have the fee levied against them afterwards and its a nominal fee at best to boot. The fact that you would let animals die or at some point a human because they didn't pay a subscription fee is absolutely unacceptable.

They should pay the taxes of the municipality they reside in but if they didn't or couldn't then work it out afterwards. It's a fire, not a basement being flooded, power company money not being paid for or a water heater blowing up.

There are way bigger federal/state/county programs providing useless money to people then to be arguing the fact they didn't pay $75. Yes, the admitted they didn't and no one here can say whether they could afford it or not. When the country starts changing the other larger social programs that waste money, then you'll have a leg to stand on here but I bet 95% of the ppl in this thread have never written a congressman or representative in their entire lives. Not saying it makes you evil or anything but get involved when you can and if at all possible in your life. This is a dumb statute and less to do about $75 than it does about someone who politiced for it to be enacted in the first place. I'd be embarassed to have supported this legistlature.

I bet they change their tune when some kids or grandma dies.

Poee7R

This thread enforce's the money over humanity argument. There does come a time where you do the right thing for the right reasons.

Good game fella's.


Dave

gfong

Do the state taxes in Tenn not cover this kind of thing? Is this common? What about a volunteer Fire Dept?

TNHNDYMAN

When the trucks arrived on scence they encountered the family and deemed all were accounted for. They run because if someone is in danger then they go in reguardless of if the fee hasn't been paid. I did read the story from prior in the year where unfortuately though where some family pets perished in a home that hadn't paid and they did not try to enter or spray. Sad they lost their home and belongings but I bet this makes a pretty good incentive for the community to pay the fee. The nearby areas that allow you to pay a higher on the spot amount may be a better option for them in the future though.

TNHNDYMAN

That "Volunter Fire Department" had costs and a budget with limited resources. Gear, trucks, training, and maintence are not paid for with happy thoughts or well wishes it takes $$.

dorokusai

Absolutely, but they still used up their limited budget to drive to the residential area of the fire, then figure out what they were doing. I don't believe the Volunteerism is in question here and I've never seen a local VFD out of business or not put out a fire in my county, let alone state. They are funded just fine.

obieone

What about, the FD puts the fire out, then if the fees aren't paid, the district, county, whoever, put's a lien on the property?
They (H.O.'s) can't do jack with it until it's paid. And they could even jack it up, to cover the acual cost of that particular fire.
"You could have paid $75, now you gotta pay $1,100"

Or is that solution just way too simple?

Drenis

This scenario is similar to people who rent and do not take out tenants insurance...

Feel bad that it happened and for the peoples loss but they knew about it. They knew the rules.

dorokusai

A television being stolen and your home being burned down are not equal issues. At least bring it more perspective, step up the game. Give me a break on the 75 vs 1100 issue, that's just crap.

TNHNDYMAN

@Doro- not trying to argue w/ you at all just stating that these guys get the call and go no matter what. They don't wait at dispatch to see if the address has paid or if all the family is out safely, as soon as a call comes that there is a fire at such and such address they are on their way because if anyone is in the home quick response time is key. So yes it's a waste to drive to the scene but they have to go before all information is available. I agree it's a policy that leaves alot to be desired and I hope their community is able to find a better way to fund this FD.

If you forgot to change your smoke detector batteries when the time changed do so now. Everyone should have a plan for their home and family if the horror of a fire were to happen to them. It is a bad time of year for fires with the temps falling and many accidents happen over the holidays unfortunately. I am grateful to the men and women who serve and put themselves in harms way to help when neccesary.

Dennis Gardner

I think the fire department needs to negotiate a price per gallon fee once they arrive at an unpaid house fire. Let the home owner decide what it is worth now....he already decided the annual fee wasn't a good deal. Pay me now or pay me later kind of thing.

ken brydson

steveinaz wrote: »

and IMO, not paying the $75/yr is idiocy. If the word gets around that they will put out your fire anyway---how many people do you think would pay the $75 up front? They need the money for day-to-day operations/sustainment; not just when you happen to have a fire.

I've been paying for car insurance since I was 16; I'm now almost 50, and I've never had a single claim. Does that chap my ****? You bet it does, but I still pay to have insurance.

A free society can only work when everyone does what they are suppose to do. If 50% of the population is slacking off, guess who pays the difference? THE TAXPAYER. (you and me).

How much confusion can there be in: IF YOU WANT FIRE DEPARTMENT SUPPORT, YOU MUST PAY $75 ANNUALLY. If you "choose" not to pay, you've just become you're own fire department.

Amen, well said...