Something's amiss with my turntable.

DaveHo

The setup:

ProJect Debut III
Ortofon OM 5e cart with OM 10 stylus
Cambrdge Audio 640P prono-pre
Onkyo PR-SC885 pre/pro

I'm the second owner of the table, but have been using it for a few months. I changed out the original OM 5e stylus for the OM 10 because the original got damaged when the previous owner installed the guard before shipping it to me. Supposedly, the table had less than 50 hrs on it when I bought it.

The problem:

Everything was fine until the other day. Then I noticed starting about 1/2 to 2/3 or the way through an LP side, the vocals started to sound very grainy, the sound stage was collasping, & the bass was sounding weak. First track or two sounded fine then the sound would go to crap. The closer it got to the end, the worse the sound was getting. Now last night while trying to trouble shoot, the sound started randomly cutting in & out.

I pulled the 640P out of the equation & connected the TT straight to the phono input on the processor. No change so it's nothing to do with that. Table is level. Tracking force is OK(assuming the built in scale is accurate). Antiskate weight is set right. I have not checked the alignment since I got the table, but nothing looks like it moved.

I use a Last brush for cleaning the stylus. I drag it back to front a couple times after each side & use the fluid with the brush after each listening session. I don't think I tweeked the stylus. Looks OK to me.

So what's the problem? Cart going south? Bad tonearm wiring? Something else?

Help! I need my vinyl fix!

-Dave

quadzilla

The position of the arm shouldn't affect the cart like that unless it's moving towards a large magnetic field. Sounds morel like alignment or wiring.

thsmith

Sounds like cart alignment to me.

rebuy

I think it's broken.

george daniel

Get that stylus under a good magnifier and take a peek,,then report back.

DaveHo

Just had a revelation. The night before I noticed the issue, I dozed off & woke with the needle in the runout groove. I didn't think much of it, but could that have f'd something up? Why do the first couple tracks sound OK? Why did it just start cutting in & out last night? Ugh, I hope I haven't trashed any of my vinyl.

-Dave

rebuy

Here's a link to good stylus info with drawings and photos to help you with the needle if that is the problem.

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22894

DaveHo

Back from the dead with an update. This whole situation kind of discouraged me & I quit listening to vinyl for a couple of months. I finally got my act together a few weeks ago & checked everything out.

Everything with the table setup is fine. Alignment is dead on according to the gauge which came with the table, VTF is correct, etc. Once I verified all that & convinced myself I wasn't destroying my vinyl with each play, I pulled out one of the better recordings I have & gave it a spin. It sounded excellent all the way through.

It would appear what I was previously hearing is inner groove distortion. The cutting in & out was due to something completely unrelated. Now that I've been spinning again for a couple of weeks, I'm experiencing varying degrees of this on many recordings. Most of which are recent purchases of used recordings from a few different sources. There are a few that sound excellent, but they are few & far between.

I've read up about IGD & think I gave a grasp on what causes it. Since the current alignment is fine & I can't do anything about the quality of the recordings, I'm leaning toward ditching the Ortofon in favor of something that will track better. The Audio Technica 440Mla seems to get high praise for fighting IGD. I know there are a few others here with Pro-ject Debut III's. What are you using?

-Dave

Joe08867

Did you notice the problem before you left the needle in the runout? If not my guess is the needle is worn. You can replace just the needle and not the whole cart.

If you prefer to replace all that is up to you.

skipf

If you used the alignment tool that came with the turntable that may be causing your problem. Not all turntable protractors are equal, and the distortion on inner grooves sounds to me like an alignment problem that will show up more on some recordings.

Gavin.Wright

I've had good luck with the Shure M97xe - although it's probably not considered an audiophile cartridge i've been happy with the results. I used to use an older ortofon cartridge - TM14? which I replaced the stylus on but was never happy with the IGD or how it handled sibilance.

Gavin.Wright

Oh - I also spent a lot of time with a protractor and a couple of test records to get things setup just right. Well worth the effort.

scottyboy76

12 years ago, after the better part of a fifth of wild turkey 101, and a couple of big fat dark madura wrapper Punch cigars, i woke up, or more like regained conciousness, with a copy of Don Rickles classic, "Hello Dummy" on the tt, power off, with the neede in the runoff groove.

Did no damage or anything, but i know i will never again have a chance to share that story.

cnh

Sorry to hear about the problem. I use an Ortofon Cartridge on an old Technics SL. Never had a problem with it.

On that note. Do any of you remember when you were a kid and used to play records on your parents' modest record player and how they always just played and played and played and all you did was replace a stylus once in a blue moon. Sure the player didn't cost a fortune and it was probably wearing your LP away but it sure seemed "indestructible", didn't it?

cnh

hochpt21

scottyboy76 wrote: »

12 years ago, after the better part of a fifth of wild turkey 101, and a couple of big fat dark madura wrapper Punch cigars, i woke up, or more like regained conciousness, with a copy of Don Rickles classic, "Hello Dummy" on the tt, power off, with the neede in the runoff groove.

Did no damage or anything, but i know i will never again have a chance to share that story.

I am really glad you had the chance to tell it. Thouroughly enjoyed it.

scottyboy76

hochpt21 wrote: »

I am really glad you had the chance to tell it. Thouroughly enjoyed it.

I do what i can

newbie308

Is this a P-mount cartridge or a standard 1/2" mount? I had a similar experience with my dad's old Garrard TT. The problem was dammaged insulation on the tone arm wires shorting to the chassis when the arm was in certain positions, and intermitently at that. I replaced the wires, and the problem never returned. I'd disconnect the TT from the system and the cartridge and ohm out all of the wires to the chassis and to each other.

doctor r

Newbie308 has a good idea. In addition really cleaning your stylus may improve the situation. I have had a stylus run over night with no true ill effects. They can, though, actually pick up and have a coating of crud (dirt, plastic /vinyl polymer, ect) that is difficult to see with the naked eye, but effects the stylus - grove interaction. Look for write ups on the web for using the magic erasure for cleaning your stylus. I have resurrected a couple of cartridges thought to be destroyed using it.

The set up guide/protractor that comes with your table might get you in the alignment ballpark, but there are better protractors and they can really improve the issue you are experiencing. When I do my alignment and think it is correct I listen for a few days and then recheck, usually redo a small amount, and repeat. I have taken over a month or more to get the setup as good as I can. (one cartridge I worked for more than 6 months and found improvements each time I revisited the setup.) You can download some printable arc protractors to check your set up against from the vinyl engine website. Patience is your friend with TT setup. Work diligently with this cartridge and the experience will pay off in how well you set up your next upgrade cartridge and the one after and the one .........

Rick