Subwoofer to go with RTIA1

rider70

It's been 15 years since I last had a real stereo. I have always enjoyed music and I learned to appreciate good sound when I was in college.

I recently put together a system for use in a simple home theater that I have been mostly happy with. Having real sound to go with movies has definitely been a treat.

The sound for music is good but not great, so I am thinking about adding a subwoofer.

I currently have:

Denon AVR-1912
Polk RTIA1 x 2
Polk CSIA4

I have a couple of questions:

1 - Will the addition of a subwoofer help out the overall power of the system? (ie: by offloading the amplification of the bass to the subwoofer is there more power left for the mid and high on the mains?)

2 - Will the subwoofer help to create a more "room-filling" sound?

3 - what subwoofer would be best matched with the RTIA1's, especially for music?

Thanks for your help!

rebuy

Someone says a PSW 505 is on sale at amazon for 169. buy it if you find it.

Just a quick word about these speakers. I have RTI 4's which your model replaced.
I run them with an Onkyo. I do not think the natural synergy between the RTI's and the Onkyo is great.
I have been trying a lot of different settings with the receiver to try to get that perfect sound for this speaker.
Every receiver will make them sound different. I finally found the settings that sound best for my small speakers and they sound great. If you are not happy with the sound of these good speakers, I suggest more experimentation with the receiver till you start to hit the sweet spot between receiver and speakers. I probably run mine in a room smaller than yours and don't feel the need for a sub at all.

In a bigger room-yes.

rider70

Thanks for the reply.

My room is 15w x 12d x 9h, so the orientation is not perfect. I am using standard audyssey settings. I have considered putting something on the walls to help smooth out the acoustics. But I get the feeling that my receiver is straining to fill up the room with sound. It would be great if the sound felt more "full" even at lower volumes. That's what i'm hoping to get out of a sub.

tonyb

Rider, welcome to the club first off. If your using the audessey's settings, that maybe half your problem. They don't always get it right. Go into your receivers setup menu to speaker levels and see where they are set to. Return them to 0 and adjust up or down to your taste. Since you don't have a sub yet, make sure the subwoofer is set to no or none. Then you can get a better picture if you need a sub or not. If you do think you do, the REL T series would be pretty good too, depending on budget.

rebuy

I would think your Denon has plenty of power for your room. Get that 505 it's supposed to be pretty good and at that price you won't beat it.

Audyssey is good but it does not make my speakers sound like I like, it just gave me a different sound. I needed a different sound that the Audyssey didn't equalize into. Now I manually set my own levels and try to manipulate the Onkyo into sounding like a better amp. I think the Onkyo makes the polks sound full but without adjusting it just right you lose the "air" of the speakers. It's taken awhile and past the break in period and it's sounding pretty good.

Of course you gotta remember that I'm an old geezer and I like a little sparkle as my ears are old.

But if you feel like your Denon is straining, turn it down a little so you don't damage your speakers.
I have about 80WPC and never fell I'm straining the receiver to get good sound
Try the sub first, that might solve the room pressure issue.

jbooker82

A DSW Pro660WI. $349 on the weekend sale from New Egg. It is a real nice sub, expecially for the sale price.

rider70

Thanks for everyone's replies. I'll definitely play with some manual settings a bit more.

rebuy wrote: »

But if you feel like your Denon is straining, turn it down a little so you don't damage your speakers.
I have about 80WPC and never fell I'm straining the receiver to get good sound
Try the sub first, that might solve the room pressure issue.

I'm actually happy with the sound of my system at higher levels. I feel like it is straining to fill the room at lower volumes. I'm hoping the sub will help out with that.

Couldn't find the sale on the 660wi. But, it looks like there's a good deal on the dsw pro 500. That should work well with the RTIA1's, right?

jbooker82

guess it isnt on sale. It has been on sale just about every weekend for the last month or so. I would hold out for a 660WI on sale for $349. It is a nice sub.

cnh

rebuy wrote: »

I would think your Denon has plenty of power for your room. Get that 505 it's supposed to be pretty good and at that price you won't beat it.

Audyssey is good but it does not make my speakers sound like I like, it just gave me a different sound. I needed a different sound that the Audyssey didn't equalize into. Now I manually set my own levels and try to manipulate the Onkyo into sounding like a better amp. I think the Onkyo makes the polks sound full but without adjusting it just right you lose the "air" of the speakers. It's taken awhile and past the break in period and it's sounding pretty good.

Of course you gotta remember that I'm an old geezer and I like a little sparkle as my ears are old.

But if you feel like your Denon is straining, turn it down a little so you don't damage your speakers.
I have about 80WPC and never fell I'm straining the receiver to get good sound
Try the sub first, that might solve the room pressure issue.

It may be your "room". I run an Onkyo TX-SR 604 with some Rti-4s and an 8" sub in my bedroom which is not that big and it sounds better than it should. I was really surprised because I first hooked them up to an HK 3490 in a larger room and I really did NOT like what I was hearing there? But in a 12 x 13 x 8.5 space the Onkyo sounds very good with little in the way of adjustments. Then again the 604, believe it or not, has Onkyo's VLSC (sound smoothing algorithms for digital sources, found on some Onkyo CDPs and higher model Onkyos--maybe that's a factor?).

To original poster. How big is your room? You need a smaller, faster sub for "music" unless you have a decent sized space. Then you should go bigger and badder!

cnh

rider70

cnh wrote: »

It may be your "room". I run an Onkyo TX-SR 604 with some Rti-4s and an 8" sub in my bedroom which is not that big and it sounds better than it should. I was really surprised because I first hooked them up to an HK 3490 in a larger room and I really did NOT like what I was hearing there? But in a 12 x 13 x 8.5 space the Onkyo sounds very good with little in the way of adjustments. Then again the 604, believe it or not, has Onkyo's VLSC (sound smoothing algorithms for digital sources, found on some Onkyo CDPs and higher model Onkyos--maybe that's a factor?).

To original poster. How big is your room? You need a smaller, faster sub for "music" unless you have a decent sized space. Then you should go bigger and badder!

cnh

My room is 15w x 12l x 9h. So, it's not that big. But, the front speakers are located on the 15 foot wall and the main listening position is on the opposite wall, 12 feet away (ie, the room is wider than it is long, not ideal).

rebuy

cnh wrote: »

It may be your "room". I run an Onkyo TX-SR 604 with some Rti-4s and an 8" sub in my bedroom which is not that big and it sounds better than it should. I was really surprised because I first hooked them up to an HK 3490 in a larger room and I really did NOT like what I was hearing there? But in a 12 x 13 x 8.5 space the Onkyo sounds very good with little in the way of adjustments. Then again the 604, believe it or not, has Onkyo's VLSC (sound smoothing algorithms for digital sources, found on some Onkyo CDPs and higher model Onkyos--maybe that's a factor?).

cnh

Maybe your Model does sound better than mine I have a 608. I'm not saying it's a bad sounding receiver, but when hooked up to my 4's they sound full but lose the sizzle of the top end. It has that classic Polk sound but it sounds even better, IMHO, with sight adjustments. I'm sue these speakers would sound totally different with an Ice amp or a H-K and the like.

I find the 4's can play pretty low and clean and it all goes up hill from there. I do hear people complain about the lack of bass from these and I really have to disagree. When set up properly, the 4's are capable of good full range sound without a boxy effect at all.
When set up correct, they should disappear into the room, mine sure do and the sound is very big with out a hint of a box speaker.
That's the whole point of good audio. For a small speaker they are great.

I guess my point to the OP if it doesn't float your boat while listening, it's probably the settings. The speakers are very high quality.

rider70

Thanks for the tip to look more closely at my receiver settings. Tonight I found the Dynamic Volume setting and once I turned it off, music sound so much better and created the presence that I thought was lacking. I am surprised that it is turned on as a default, everything sounds better when it's turned off.

I'm going to listen to this for few days and see if i still feel the need for a sub.

I'm still open to any more suggestions. I checked out the dsw pro 660wi, but I think that it will be too big (physically) for the space I have.

Lietuvis91

Well, your focus is mainly music, so a psw505 which is 12 inch sub, and not the best one at that, is not a good match. I would look for a powerful 8 or 10 inch sub in your case. You want to be able to match the speed of the driver in the sub to your small rtia1. Other wise the sub will sound slow and overbaring trying to keep up with them, it will just be more difficult to blend it in. If you get a big 12 inch, you need to step up in quality. I would look for a quality 10 inch.

rider70

Thanks for the suggestion to stick with a 10" or 8" subwoofer. I was leaning that way due to physical size limitations anyway, but it's good to know that there is a performance reason to stick with these smaller sizes.

So, I am thinking about the Polk dsw pro 500 or HSU STF-2. Both can be had for about the same price (which is at the top of my budget) and seem to offer performance at a level that is consistent with my speakers and receiver.

The 500 is ported on the bottom and the stf-2 is ported on the back. Whatever I get, it will be placed along a wall with 6-8" of clearance in behind it. Is there any reason to choose one over the other, again based on my preference for music quality?

rider70

I've been able to spend some more time with my system over the holidays. The rtia1's are great speakers that offer great bass for their size. But I've decided that it's not quite enough for me and my room. So, I have a Hsu VTF-1 on the way. I am hoping to not only get better bass, but also better efficiency from my whole system. The new sub should deliver on Thursday. I guess I know what I'm doing next weekend!

DaveHCYJ

Let us know how it sounds. I strongly considered that sub for my RTi A1 and CSi A4 setup. Ended up going with the Emotiva Ultra 12

rider70

I got home from a week long work trip to find my new Hsu Vtf-1 waiting for me. I hooked it up, switched my speaker settings to 'small' and put on some music. From the first note I knew I had made a good decision - the room was completely filled with sound and the highs were crystal clear. I still need to run Audyssey, but I already have great sound and I am sure that it will only get better. I'll post more once I do some further tweaking, but initial impressions are that I now have the sound I was looking for out of my system for both music and movies!

Erik Tracy

CP rule - pics or it never happened! :cheesygrin:

Glad you are enjoying the sub!

rider70

Erik Tracy wrote: »

CP rule - pics or it never happened! :cheesygrin:

Now that I am getting the sound dialled in, the next step will be a new TV, but it probably won't happen until next fall. Notice how I left plenty of space for a 55"!

Erik Tracy

Clean!

You could always go up to 703s as well!:biggrin:

rider70

Keeping it clean was part of the deal with the wife. Adding a sub was a bit of a stretch, but we listened to some of her favorite music last night and now she's sold. She even texted a friend about how great it sounded.

Trust me, the 703's are part of the 3 to 5 year plan!