A very noobish speaker question

frdranger
frdranger Posts: 110
edited December 2011 in Speakers
Hey folks -

Ive been researching yet not yielding results (probably searching the wrong area) but I do have a Polk Audio CS1 center currently. I am debating on upgrading to the CS20 (TSi series) although my question is, would I really notice any improvement? Specifications seem almost similar, but I am just wondering if upgrading to the CS20 would yield any notable difference. Rest of my system / speakers are in my sig. Thank you in advance!
My Living Room 3.1 config:
Toshiba 40RV525U
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
Center channel: Polk CS1
Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
Rears: None

My Computer setup
Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
Post edited by frdranger on

Comments

  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited November 2011
    Should have added it was between the CS20 which is on sale for $199 @ newegg, or the Paradigm CC-190, but thats a little out of my price range. Just trying to find the best bang for my buck. Thanks :).
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited November 2011
    Yes you will. and there $149 pn Amazon now.
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited November 2011
    chumlie wrote: »
    Yes you will. and there $149 pn Amazon now.

    Thank you for the heads up! Will look into it.

    If I decided to increase my budget a little more and looked into a CSi A6, would my receiver be able to drive that? Thanks!
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • tommyt21
    tommyt21 Posts: 685
    edited November 2011
    Are you planning on upgrading the rest of your front sound stage? You need to be looking for a timber matched center channel
    Living Room
    Fronts: RTi A7's
    Center: Csi A6 VR3 "Fortress Plus"
    Front Heights: Rti A1
    Surrounds: Rti A3
    Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 Damn this is a good SUB
    Pioneer Pioneer Elite: SC-35-> Emotiva XPA-3
    TV: Lg LW6500 55" Passive 3D
    Blu-Ray Panasonic BD 210
    XboX 360 Slim/Kinect

    Acoustimac red suede panels
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited November 2011
    tommyt21 wrote: »
    Are you planning on upgrading the rest of your front sound stage? You need to be looking for a timber matched center channel

    Forgive me, I'm not quite sure what you mean there by timber matched. I am currently looking to only upgrade my center channel speaker. The two Paradigm Studio 20s v.2 I have at the front sound wonderful.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • codyc1ark
    codyc1ark Posts: 2,532
    edited November 2011
    frdranger wrote: »
    Forgive me, I'm not quite sure what you mean there by timber matched. I am currently looking to only upgrade my center channel speaker. The two Paradigm Studio 20s v.2 I have at the front sound wonderful.

    I would hold out until funds permit to buy the matching center, you'll never have the 'what if' factor.
  • tommyt21
    tommyt21 Posts: 685
    edited November 2011
    frdranger wrote: »
    Forgive me, I'm not quite sure what you mean there by timber matched. I am currently looking to only upgrade my center channel speaker. The two Paradigm Studio 20s v.2 I have at the front sound wonderful.

    This is a cut and paste from another forum.

    Speaker manufacturers will have timbre matched front, center and rear speakers. They will generally use the same style of enclosure, crossover components, and most importantly the same drivers. This insures they will be timbre matched (same tonal balance). If you don't have speakers that are timbre matched you have a chance of having a improper front sound stage. For instance a car panning across the front speakers. The car sounds like a Ferrari in the left front, and then it moves across to the center speaker and it now sounds like a Porsche 911 in the center speaker. Then it moves back to the right speaker and the sound chances back to the original Ferrari.


    If you like your digm's front speaks, you should be looking at a matching digm center channel, not a polk.... My polk Csi a4 would not sound right with my Monitor 60's I use to have. I tested this before I got my Rti A7's in. Got a very strange in a cave type sound because of the tonal mismatch. It is basic HT 101 to have a matching front 3.
    Living Room
    Fronts: RTi A7's
    Center: Csi A6 VR3 "Fortress Plus"
    Front Heights: Rti A1
    Surrounds: Rti A3
    Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 Damn this is a good SUB
    Pioneer Pioneer Elite: SC-35-> Emotiva XPA-3
    TV: Lg LW6500 55" Passive 3D
    Blu-Ray Panasonic BD 210
    XboX 360 Slim/Kinect

    Acoustimac red suede panels
  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited November 2011
    Timber matched means same series of speakers from same compant. csi a6 is matched with polk rti series. cs20 matched with tsi series . I'm sure paradigm has a match for yours.
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited November 2011
    chumlie wrote: »
    Timber matched means same series of speakers from same compant. csi a6 is matched with polk rti series. cs20 matched with tsi series . I'm sure paradigm has a match for yours.

    Yea, they do. They suggest the CC-190 / CC-290. I am contemplating on the CC-190 now that you guys have introduced me to timber matching. I never really thought about that before.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • tommyt21
    tommyt21 Posts: 685
    edited November 2011
    frdranger wrote: »
    Yea, they do. They suggest the CC-190 / CC-290. I am contemplating on the CC-190 now that you guys have introduced me to timber matching. I never really thought about that before.

    I was upgrading anyway in my situation but I just wanted to test the theory about timber matching. I even used the same brand Polk, but two diffrent series and it sounded horrible. When things match it sounds fantastic. Your rears and sub however it is not important to timber match, just the fronts
    Living Room
    Fronts: RTi A7's
    Center: Csi A6 VR3 "Fortress Plus"
    Front Heights: Rti A1
    Surrounds: Rti A3
    Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 Damn this is a good SUB
    Pioneer Pioneer Elite: SC-35-> Emotiva XPA-3
    TV: Lg LW6500 55" Passive 3D
    Blu-Ray Panasonic BD 210
    XboX 360 Slim/Kinect

    Acoustimac red suede panels
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited November 2011
    tommyt21 wrote: »
    I was upgrading anyway in my situation but I just wanted to test the theory about timber matching. I even used the same brand Polk, but two diffrent series and it sounded horrible. When things match it sounds fantastic. Your rears and sub however it is not important to timber match, just the fronts

    Unfortunately, I do not have rears at the moment because I have nowhere to run the wiring. So I'm running a 3.1 setup, and matching should have been priority on my life from the get go. Man, I've made some errors here lol. Hopefully if I purchase the CC-190 that would rectify the issue for the moment until I get a new receiver which has a pre-out on it.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • detroitHOOLIGAN
    detroitHOOLIGAN Posts: 30
    edited December 2011
    Yeah man to put it simply stick with the same brand and series across the front (L,C,R), it makes the biggest difference. There is no myth to this. i would keep the CS1 and buy some cheap monitor series (whatever you can afford) if you have a small budget. I still use my CS1 with monitor 60's and it is still better than anything anyone I know personally (outside of internet forums) has. I have B&W in my basement and due to the concrete basement walls the polk setup sounds much nicer.
  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited December 2011
    Save your money and buy the right center from paradigm, that's the real upgrade that will be worth while, not the cs20.
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I apologize for my lack of response, holidays and just got over a very, very nasty cold. It got me thinking - what if I were to perhaps put the Paradigm's away for now, keep my CS1 center and purchase a pair of Monitor 70s'. Would the 70s overpower the CS1? Thanks!

    This would also indefinitely hold me over from having to purchase a new receiver which has a pre-out so I could use an amp to drive the Paradigm's to their fullest potential.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    Just an update - I just saw that Newegg has the Monitor 60 for $149, WITH a promo code for $50 bringing it down to $99 per speaker. So $198 for two Monitor 60's is pretty impressive. However - I used to have the Monitor 50's. Not quite sure if there would be a big difference going from the Monitor 50's to the 60s'.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited December 2011
    This decision to me would depend on your living room size and whether or not you want a really big speaker. You should also keep in mind that your 609 receiver is not really going to feed them a whole lot of power, so if you like to play it loud, it might come short of power, particularly at higher volumes. In your case I think the m60 is a better choice, especially if your living room is not the biggest.

    I have the 608 and ran m60 and m70s off of it. I like the way it drives the m60s better. M60s just make better use of the available power.
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    Lietuvis91 wrote: »
    This decision to me would depend on your living room size and whether or not you want a really big speaker. You should also keep in mind that your 609 receiver is not really going to feed them a whole lot of power, so if you like to play it loud, it might come short of power, particularly at higher volumes. In your case I think the m60 is a better choice, especially if your living room is not the biggest.

    I have the 608 and ran m60 and m70s off of it. I like the way it drives the m60s better. M60s just make better use of the available power.

    Thank you for your quick response! It is a big decision, the Monitor 70s do seem to require more power. As much as I would like to get the Paradigm CC-190 center to match the Studio 20s, I still feel it would be lackluster due to my receiver not driving the three to their fullest potential (remember, 100w per channel, no pre-out for an amp on the 609). And with the current price on the Monitor 60s it may be a steal. Also a sliver of me feels sad with parting with my current center CS1 speaker. So perhaps I may go with the M60s. :)
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    Another thing I was looking at were the TSi400's. From what I've gathered they're pretty much the same as the Monitor 60's, however since I'm on a tighter budget I cannot see spending $500 - $600 where there would be minimal difference in sound quality.

    I've also maybe started to look at RTi 3A's for my fronts as well; perhaps keeping the Bookshelf speaker route. Just so many to choose from.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited December 2011
    I would skip the tsi line and just go with monitors in that senario.

    However, is there something you don't like about the paradigms? I looked at the specs of the cc190, it doesn't seem that your receiver wouldn't be able to drive it. Why not make it simple and just get the matching center and stick with what you have.

    Unless you don't like the paradigms for some reason? I have never had or heard them, so I don't know whow they comare to the monitors. I am just not sure if switching to monitors would be an upgrade, downgrade or a latteral move...

    A cs1 is nothing amazing and can be sold here on this forum, craigslist, or ebay, that's not a big deal.
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    Lietuvis91 wrote: »
    I would skip the tsi line and just go with monitors in that senario.

    However, is there something you don't like about the paradigms? I looked at the specs of the cc190, it doesn't seem that your receiver wouldn't be able to drive it. Why not make it simple and just get the matching center and stick with what you have.

    Unless you don't like the paradigms for some reason? I have never had or heard them, so I don't know whow they comare to the monitors. I am just not sure if switching to monitors would be an upgrade, downgrade or a latteral move...

    A cs1 is nothing amazing and can be sold here on this forum, craigslist, or ebay, that's not a big deal.

    I know, like I said its such a tough decision. I have no local shops around me to listen to the Paradigm, Best Buy doesn't even carry the Monitors anymore (at least my store doesn't) and being I live in the middle of nowhere I would have to buy these without listening. That's why the choice is hard.

    I do love the Paradigm's, but I feel something is missing with them. Some Umph maybe? Hard to tell - but I just feel they aren't being driven to their full potential. Perhaps the Paradigm center is what I need to sway my mind due to the lack of timber-matching.

    Just still learning the ropes, thank you very much for your response and patience with me!
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,014
    edited December 2011
    Just a guess, but have you adjusted the receivers settings once you added the 20's ? Maybe the crossover is set too high ? Maybe the speaker levels are set too low ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    tonyb wrote: »
    Just a guess, but have you adjusted the receivers settings once you added the 20's ? Maybe the crossover is set too high ? Maybe the speaker levels are set too low ?

    Well, for starters I've set the crossover to 80hz across the board and used that as my starting point, including the sub. I've then gone up/down incrementally and really didn't notice any difference. As for the audible levels; I've got everything at 0. I've notched it up to +2 / +3 and whereas I did notice a difference, I was also advised to leave the levels all at the same decibel level. With that in mind I was afraid I'd blow my center channel.
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • chadam44
    chadam44 Posts: 68
    edited December 2011
    Save up for the matching center channel, you will be happier with that than upgrading multiple times (spending more money) to come to the conclusion that the matching center will sound better.
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    chadam44 wrote: »
    Save up for the matching center channel, you will be happier with that than upgrading multiple times (spending more money) to come to the conclusion that the matching center will sound better.

    Hey folks! So I've been doing some more research around, and I've come across a little issue. Being my Studio 20's are v.2, and the center I'm looking at is v.6, many have disputed that it wouldn't quite match, due to the revisions the series has gone through. This came from both Paradigm owners and a Paradigm rep themselves. Different drivers, frequencies, etc. etc. I mean they said it wouldn't hurt and would probably sound better than my CS1 obviously, but that sense of hesitation and doubt has hit me.

    Just not quite sure what route to go down. I do not have the money to get BOTH the cc-190 and and updated pair of Studio monitor speakers. However, for slightly more I could put the Paradigm's aside or try to sell them for now; and get either a pair of Monitor 60 or Monitor 70 speakers to match my current CS1. Call me nit-picky, I'm just someone who doesn't have a whole lot of money to blow and wants the best bang for the buck, you know?
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX
  • Lietuvis91
    Lietuvis91 Posts: 908
    edited December 2011
    If I was in your shoes, i would find out what center speaker is correct or a very close match and look for it used, on audiogon or ebay, or maybe some retailers might still carry them. That would be the best solution, imo.

    For your studio 20 v2 it looks like a cc 370 v2 or a CC V2 are the correct center speakers.

    In the end, we can't make the decision for you, do whatever makes the most sense to you, bud.
    Living Room 7.1 HT Rig:

    M70 | CS2 | M60 | Atrium5 - Surr. | SUB - Emotiva ULTRA12 + Tara Labs sub cable | Pioneer Elite VSX-52 | Parasound HCAs 1000A | Sony BDP-S790 | Belkin PureAV PF60 | MIT Exp2 Wires

    Bedroom 5.0 HT Rig (Music/Movies/Gaming) :

    LSi9 | LsiC | Lsi/fx | Marantz SR7002 | NAD T955 | Sony BDP-S360 | Belkin PureAV PF30 | AQ Blue Racer II ICs & AQ Type 4 wires | PS3
  • frdranger
    frdranger Posts: 110
    edited December 2011
    Lietuvis91 wrote: »
    If I was in your shoes, i would find out what center speaker is correct or a very close match and look for it used, on audiogon or ebay, or maybe some retailers might still carry them. That would be the best solution, imo.

    For your studio 20 v2 it looks like a cc 370 v2 or a CC V2 are the correct center speakers.

    In the end, we can't make the decision for you, do whatever makes the most sense to you, bud.

    Thank you. I think what I've decided, is I may try to sell my receiver and go for one that actually has pre-outs. It's rather silly that I'm confined to my selection in speakers. Do I want bigger, yes. Do I want good quality, yes. Do I want the speaker that I'll ultimately choose to be driven to its full potential, yes. I cannot accomplish any of those (and I what I have in mind) with this receiver.

    Thank you all for the help, I will report back once I've done this - which may be a while lol. Thanks!
    My Living Room 3.1 config:
    Toshiba 40RV525U
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
    Center channel: Polk CS1
    Front L/R: Paradigm Reference Studio 20
    Subwoofer: Velodyne DPS-10
    Rears: None

    My Computer setup
    Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 THX