SDA2Bs - Getting Them Off The Floor

PreCd

What is everyone using to get their SDA2Bs off the floor? I found one thread that discussed spikes but I am looking for something that will not damage my carpet.

falconcry72

Spikes will not damage your carpet.

The goal here isn't to get the speakers off the carpet, as in raise them, the goal is to couple them to the floor.

Spikes are where it's at, especially on carpet. :biggrin:

sda2mike

there are spikes available for placement on carpet

PreCd

Ok sounds good. I will take another look at the spike thread.

Thanks

Marty913

These are the ones I recently used on my 1C's and they worked out very well. There are many choices and most have "carpet protector" pads/discs available. I have ceramic tile and agree completely that the improvement comes from getting them off the floor (whatever the floor covering is). Even with tile, the improvement is noticeable. Not a lot of money either, which is always nice.

http://supercellaudio.com/Floor%20Spikes.htm

PreCd

How would these work for the SDA2Bs?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-678

Face

They should be ok as long as you don't "walk" the speakers and place all the speaker's weight on one spike. I wouldn't recommend them for the larger SDA's though.

PreCd

Revisiting this thread guys. I have been looking at these spikes:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-678

I am worried that the stud for the 6mm threaded spike may be too large for my SDA2Bs. Do not want to bust the original wood! What has others used in their SDA2Bs?

sda2mike

i installed the parts express spikes...your link doesn't work...i have 2b's and the spikes are one of the best mod's i've made

PreCd

sda2mike wrote: »

i installed the parts express spikes...your link doesn't work...i have 2b's and the spikes are one of the best mod's i've made

Got the link fixed Mike. When you say the Parts Express spikes are you talking about the spikes in the link which are Dayton spikes?

sda2mike

i got these

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-715

vstarkwell

sda2mike wrote: »

i got these

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-715

How did you mount them or attach them? I just picked up some SDA-2's and might want to go in this direction.

sda2mike

drill holes..hammer a threaded piece in the hole..screw in the spike...pretty straight forward...mine don't scratch my tile, so i don't bother with the discs that they came with...if they were any heavier, they wouldn't be so easy to move

Schurkey

Marty913 wrote: »

There are many choices and most have "carpet protector" pads/discs available.

If the "carpet protector" pads/discs prevent the spike from coupling to the floor, what good are the spikes?

The whole point (!) of the spike is to PIERCE the carpet, so the speaker rests on the concrete or "solid" floor structure and is NOT insulated from that structure by half-an-inch of fabric 'n' foam. The protector discs do exactly the opposite of the spike, spreading load instead of concentrating it. I say they are counterproductive. If you're going to spike...spike. If you want "protection", use the existing feet on the speaker.

The discs included with the spikes are to protect hardwood floors, or prevent scratching tile or tearing Linoleum. To my way of thinking, if you have a reasonably hard and even surface (uncarpeted concrete, hardwood, tile, lino, Pergo or similar...) you don't need spikes, the plastic feet included with the speakers are perfectly adequate.

If the surface is uneven, the spikes are nice to provide a leveling mechanism. I prefer three spikes to four per cabinet--easier to get the speakers level and stable.

Others may disagree.

pitdogg2

sda2mike wrote: »

drill holes..hammer a threaded piece in the hole..screw in the spike...pretty straight forward...mine don't scratch my tile, so i don't bother with the discs that they came with...if they were any heavier, they wouldn't be so easy to move

throw that insert in the garbage and buy 1/4x20 bolt and a flat washer and just tighten down. I found that a smaller 1/4" hole is much more sturdy than that insert. If for some reason that insert get wallered out of the hole you now have a big hole problem. If by chance they or you order the metric spike you'll need I believe a M6-M8 hex head bolt and just do the same.

F1nut

The whole point (!) of the spike is to PIERCE the carpet

Ed Zachary!

F1nut

throw that insert in the garbage and buy 1/4x20 bolt and a flat washer and just tighten down.

Huh?

drumminman

F1nut wrote: »

Ed Zachary!

didn't know you spoke chinese

pitdogg2

F1nut wrote: »

Huh?

Jesse I have found that you can keep those spikes tighter if you toss the insert and threaded rod piece and just use a bolt. just drill a 1/4 hole push bolt and flat washer from inside cabinet through hole and tighten down. you can still use the adjustment part of the spike, but the larger part that goes against the cabinet will stay very tight.
guess i need to work on my explainations

sda2mike

Schurkey wrote: »

If you're going to spike...spike.

sounds like Tuco..time to watch 'the good the bad and the ugly'......if you're gonna shoot...shoot

Mr. Bubbles

Schurkey wrote: »

If the "carpet protector" pads/discs prevent the spike from coupling to the floor, what good are the spikes?

The whole point (!) of the spike is to PIERCE the carpet, so the speaker rests on the concrete or "solid" floor structure and is NOT insulated from that structure by half-an-inch of fabric 'n' foam. The protector discs do exactly the opposite of the spike, spreading load instead of concentrating it. I say they are counterproductive. If you're going to spike...spike. If you want "protection", use the existing feet on the speaker.

The discs included with the spikes are to protect hardwood floors, or prevent scratching tile or tearing Linoleum. To my way of thinking, if you have a reasonably hard and even surface (uncarpeted concrete, hardwood, tile, lino, Pergo or similar...) you don't need spikes, the plastic feet included with the speakers are perfectly adequate.

If the surface is uneven, the spikes are nice to provide a leveling mechanism. I prefer three spikes to four per cabinet--easier to get the speakers level and stable.

Others may disagree.

I agree with Shurkey here. The purpose of spikes is to couple the cabinets with the floor, given that your floor is solid enough not to resonate and cause any noticeable sympathetic vibrations. If someone uses carpet protector pads, the coupling process is not allowed, and if your cabinets have feet on them already you are just as well off using them. However, if your cabinets do not have feet you are still better off with the spikes or adding feet. The main thing you don't want is the flat bottom of the cabinet sitting on the floor, whatever material the floor is made of.

Marty913

These are the ones I recently used on my 1C's and they worked out very well. There are many choices and most have "carpet protector" pads/discs available. I have ceramic tile and agree completely that the improvement comes from getting them off the floor (whatever the floor covering is). Even with tile, the improvement is noticeable. Not a lot of money either, which is always nice.

http://supercellaudio.com/Floor%20Spikes.htm

Spiking has little to do with getting the cabinets off the floor. Imagine laying a sheet of plywood on wet cement; the plywood will float on top and can easily be wiggled from side to side as it floats. However, take that same piece of plywood and stand it on it's end on the same wet concrete. The edge of the plywood will penetrate the concrete and cause a firm coupling where the plywood can no longer be wiggled at the contact point. Same wood with same mass and weight, and the same concrete surface, but when the contact area is reduced for the same weight, the pressure is increased at the contact point (tip of the spike or foot vs the broad base of the cabinet) creating a greater coupling. Skis and sleds work the same way.

To further understand the reasoning, imagine the forces involved in moving the drivers inside the cabinet. When a driver is excited (via signal from the amplifier) it tries to move its cones in the opposite direction that it tries to move it's basket/ magnet/ etc. for this to happen accurately the resistive force on the basket must be greater than the force trying to move the voice coil/ cone. The greater the resistive force, the quicker and more accurately the cone can accelerate. This creates a tighter more controlled or well damped bass. This is why spikes work; they couple the cabinet to the larger (and theoretically more solid) floor, helping to prevent movement of the cabinet upon driver acceleration.

One of the easiest ways to do this is spikes, and like Shurkey recommends , 3 spikes are better than 4. Not only for ease of leveling but to further reduce the contact area between the cabinet and floor and increase the pressure at the contact points. Adding mass to your cabinets will do much the same thing. Try sitting something very heavy on top of the cabinets and take a listen (pad it first so as not to damage your cabinets). Wall braces are also very effective. however it is usually best only to use either the floor or the wall but not both for solid coupling (spikes), because the speed of sound through solids is much faster than through air and if you firmly couple the cabinets to both the floor and the wall you are directly transmitting cabinets sounds to both which will then arrive at your ears at different times from each other (as they are transmitted directly to multiple surfaces) as well as at a different time as the direct sound from the drivers.

Spiking also gets into secondary issues such as raising the cabinets off the floor similar to tiny stands which can effect sound propagation and directivity. These are usually minute with spikes, and considered by most to be non-consequential.

TennMan

I have monitor 10s on 8" stands that are on hardwood floors. Would spikes be beneficial in this case and if so, what would be the proper way to use them without damaging the floors? It seems like using the protector discs below the sharp points of the spikes would defeat the purpose of the spikes. Right now the stands have 4 half ball shaped buttons [not shown in photo] on the bottom to keep the flat bottoms of the stands from sitting flat on the floor. How can I improve on that?

polk_stand_1.jpgpolk_stand_5.jpg

Schurkey

TennMan wrote: »

I have monitor 10s on 8" stands that are on hardwood floors. Would spikes be beneficial in this case

Probably not.

TennMan wrote: »

It seems like using the protector discs below the sharp points of the spikes would defeat the purpose of the spikes.

Yes.

TennMan wrote: »

Right now the stands have 4 half ball shaped buttons [not shown in photo] on the bottom to keep the flat bottoms of the stands from sitting flat on the floor. How can I improve on that?

Do all four park on the floor evenly? If the stand rocks even slightly, you'd want some adjustability to make it absolutely stable.

The SAME goes for the speakers as they rest on the stand--gotta be absolutely stable, no tilting in any plane. In fact, if you were willing to attach the speaker to the stand with screws, bolts, whatever--so much the better.

Mr. Bubbles

TennMan wrote: »

I have monitor 10s on 8" stands that are on hardwood floors. Would spikes be beneficial in this case and if so, what would be the proper way to use them without damaging the floors? It seems like using the protector discs below the sharp points of the spikes would defeat the purpose of the spikes. Right now the stands have 4 half ball shaped buttons [not shown in photo] on the bottom to keep the flat bottoms of the stands from sitting flat on the floor. How can I improve on that?

polk_stand_1.jpgpolk_stand_5.jpg

Let me start by saying that this response if only my opinion and not entirely based on scientific research.

I do not like stands, they are not good for coupling the speaker to the floor because you must first couple the speaker to the stand (which is generally a weaker component than the speaker cabinet) and then couple the stand to the floor. In the end the stand is still most likely the weakest link.

There are some very nice speaker plinths/ stands out there but most are weak compared to the cabinets they support and do not offer sufficient resistive forces to couple the cabinets properly to the floor.

i would first determine if you need the 8" additional height for the mid/high range or if it is just the angle that you like about your stands. If it is the angle only that you like, this can be achieved with adjustable and/or different length spikes. This would eliminate the stand and give the ability of better cabinet / floor coupling for a more accurate bass. However, if you like the additional height and desire to keep the stands you currently have, the buttons that are already on the stands will likely be as good as spikes with floor protectors. Not much can be done to couple the cabinet to the stand without causing at least minimal damage to the bottom of the cabinet. You can usually bolt the cabinet to the stand and cause no more damage than installing spikes on the bottom of the cabinet. Anything you do to increase the rigidity and/or add mass to the stand the better, especially the bottom plate; it should be as thick as reasonably possible. but in my opinion, ditch the stands and make it work without them unless you are have issues with tonal directivity.

Again this is only my opinion.

Joe08867

I am also not a fan of stands if I can help it but certain speakers really shine on stands. ADS, Polk Monitors, The Original Advent just to name a few.

The issue with Monitor 10's is they fall in between a tower and a bookshelf. The pair I had were on stands very similar to yours and at about the same height.

I coupled the speakers buy coupling them to the stand and then to the floor. In other words I spiked both. Not as easy with your stand as the top is not as big as the bottom of the speaker and may cause them to be tippy.

Honestly though I doubt you would hear any significant difference in either case. I heard some difference since the speakers were on a carpeted floor.

TennMan

I appreciate all the comments and agree with most of what has been said. However, I have tried the speakers with and without the stands and I prefer the sound with the speakers sitting on the stands. The stands bring the speakers up closer to ear level and to me the sound seems more lifelike. The stands seems to tighten up the bass some as well.

The stands do set on the floor without any detectable movement if positioned properly. So without drilling any holes in the speakers to connect them to the stands I guess I've done about all I can do. As you said, I don't think my stands would work well with spikes between the speaker and the stand because they wouldn't be very stable. And if it was possible I think spiking the stands and then putting the discs under them to protect the floors would defeat the purpose of the spikes. I could be wrong... Any other ideas or suggestions you guys have are welcomed.

PreCd

Ok. Good input from everyone. One more question.

Where did you drill the holes for your spike inserts in the SDA2Bs? The little stand around the bottom seems too small to drill a hole and drive an insert in. Maybe not but that is why I am asking. Other option of course is to attach them to the cabinet themselves but the spikes I am looking at do not seem long enough for my carpet and I have low pile carpet in that room.

F1nut

I removed the riser stand and filled the screw holes. Then, I used 2" tall spikes mounted back 1" from the corners. Using 2" tall spikes effectively raised the speakers by 1" bringing the tweeter closer to ear level.

Schurkey

PreCd wrote: »

The little stand around the bottom seems too small to drill a hole and drive an insert in.

I drilled the riser of my 1Bs; there's no excess of material...but it did work. My spikes are 1/4" bolts, so the T-nuts pressed into the wood would have been perhaps 5/16 OD.

PreCd

F1nut wrote: »

I removed the riser stand and filled the screw holes. Then, I used 2" tall spikes mounted back 1" from the corners. Using 2" tall spikes effectively raised the speakers by 1" bringing the tweeter closer to ear level.

Like that way. I wondered how they were attached to the speakers and was hoping it was not with glue. I believe that is the way to go.

Schurkey: Thanks for chiming in too. It is good to know if you did want to leave the risers on you could.

SDA1C

F1nut wrote: »

I removed the riser stand and filled the screw holes. Then, I used 2" tall spikes mounted back 1" from the corners. Using 2" tall spikes effectively raised the speakers by 1" bringing the tweeter closer to ear level.

+^

This is what I did to my 1C's. As per F1's suggestion. It worked well and was easy to install.