New vs. Old......

TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
edited October 2003 in 2 Channel Audio
You know, Jstas brushed on a topic that we've discussed from time to time and heck, why not talk about it again.....

People lately (and rightfully so) have been pumped about the closeout deals they have been getting on the RTi series. Cheap with the new car smell.

I submit to you though, that it is ENTIRELY possible to build a great rig cheap if you are willing to just be patient and look for the deals. For example, I've got right at 1000 dollars in my current 2ch rig, 1400 with the spare amps. I'd challenge anyone to take 1400 dollars and see what they can come up with, new, for a 2ch rig. I'm interested to see what folks can come up with.

BDT
I plan for the future. - F1Nut
Post edited by TroyD on
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Comments

  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited September 2003
    I totally agree! When I see what $1000 buys in the "deal" realm I have to wonder why anyone would go any other route.

    I have seen a trend amongst friends who do not make enough money to take the chances. They want an air tight guarentee that they will not get ripped off. Lets face it though, they are paying top dollar for this "guarentee" and although it is fairly safe to pay full price and receive brand new in the box components their money could have been better spent on something "like new" or even blemished that someone else with better means took the loss on.

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited September 2003
    I'm currently seeking out some speakers and have to keep telling myself to stay patient. It's so hard to find and wait for the deals to some around when you could really use the gear. :(
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited September 2003
    Well, I for one, if I run across something on the cheap, I'll bag it just because (now, I'm CERTAINLY not in the same sphere as George or others) but hell, I figure, if nothing else, I can always get my money out of it.

    To put a point on what max says, I agree. I look at it this way, take my 100 dollar Carver amp. Shoot, even if I had to drop a couple hundred in repairs, I'm STILL way ahead of the game. Same thing with, say, the Amazings or the DQ's. If I spent a grand for new repairs (or whatever) I've still got a pair of speakers that I think compete with todays speakers that cost twice what I would have in them. So, even worst case, I'm way ahead with those as well.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited September 2003
    I agree.

    I've looked at the new market and it'll cost me a fortune to get the speakers I know I'll be happy with, so now I'm searching the used market. What's great about the used market is the depreciation on the older stuff is already over and if anything they should appreciate in time.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited September 2003
    Ya, what guidelines are we talking? 1 source? Cables? What? :)
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited September 2003
    We are talking complete rig here. One source. Wires and cables included. Tax and shipping not included.

    Here is my breakdown:

    Carver Amazing's - 500
    AMC CD8b - 150
    Carver C1 pre - 150
    Carver TFM45 - 97.50
    SC interconnects / MIT Term4 ~ 100 bucks

    spares: (2) Carver m400a's - 400

    so, I got 1400 all in, including my spare amps.

    What do you guys think you can come up with NEW for a 2ch rig for 1400.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited September 2003
    I'd say not too much. ;)
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,431
    edited September 2003
    This is a turkey shoot question. Yes, I agree 100%, that patience is what wins in the end....BUT, I know, I am a window of opportunity, and means type of person. There are many like me.

    I work so much OT, that when that check comes, I have to make a move.....or the lovely "Terrie", makes a move. That essentially puts me in a bind, find a good deal....a GOOD deal, Carver amazing deal would be better, but not always workable. I would be much happier with some stereo equipment, than a bunch of shoes that don't fit me. :( I would never buy something out of blind dollar devotion, a good deal is bare minimum, period.

    That being said, yes, use patience, build that rig.....Russman alone, for me has dealt me some excellent cards. My computer sings his name, when I boot up every day. My SACD warbles his heartbeat....now was that not sweet, or what? :D Anyways, its a screech really, but I will fix that later. ;)

    The forum has been an excellent resource for alot of people, you would be a fool to not at least address some of the issues layed down in Flea Market territory.
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited September 2003
    I was buying all new before but don't mind used gear now. If I'm buying new again, it's going to be stuff I wouldn't be able to find used.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • gidrahgidrah Posts: 3,031
    edited September 2003
    Hell no. Nobody can build a system of new components that will compare with used components for the same price.

    A couple of ?s and equalizing factors:
    1. Can we do DIY kits?
    2. Can we speculate? We kinda have to since we haven't heard your rig.
    3. Can we involve 3'rd parties to do custom work?
    4. MSRP and inflation compensation?

    Moth Cicada = $650
    CD player w/ coax dig out = $60
    Scott Nixon DACKit = 300
    Chip amp kits = 50
    Upgrade components = 100
    Mods & Tweaks = 75
    wire & cable = 75
    connectors = 90
    TOTAL = $1400

    Would it sound as good? Hell if I know. Would it compete? Damn straight it would. I would think it would actually do some things better depending on personal taste, music, room, etc.
    Make it Funky! :)
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited September 2003
    Well, it was sort of a rhetorical question.....I just really wanted to make a point that with a little patience and so forth, you can really put together a GREAT rig without breaking the bank.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • gidrahgidrah Posts: 3,031
    edited September 2003
    I couldn't agree more. Connections and opportunity also come into play though.
    Make it Funky! :)
  • burdetteburdette Posts: 1,205
    edited September 2003
    Just cause this is on topic... a co-worker bought a working Advent 10" subwoofer over the weekend at a garage sale from a (no ****) little old lady. She wanted five bucks... he gave her three. It has a woodgrain vinyl covering that is chipped/peeling on a couple of the corners (i.e. it *looks* used), but the amp and driver are fine.
    HT: Denon 1910, LG blu-ray, Def Tech ProCinema 100s, Stryke 12" sonosub.
    LR: Onkyo TX-84 (original owner), Aiwa AD-F850 (original owner), Philips TT (old school, 2nd owner), Philips CD (cheap-o), Monitor 5jr+ (original owner - actually, my wife is the original owner; she bought them new when we were dating - sealed the deal).
    Xbox 360/Wii/Kids: Old school huge Sony HD TV, Sherwood RD-6500, Philips DVD, pair Def Tech ProCinema 100.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2003
    Was it the Advent Granite?

    Just curious...

    -R
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • burdetteburdette Posts: 1,205
    edited September 2003
    Don't know anything about it. He came in this morning and asked me if I knew of some sites to research old gear... this was new he thinks in 1996... and I asked him for a model number and he hadn't thought to get it. I'll let you know if he remembers to let me know. I think he is just interested in original price, specs, etc.
    HT: Denon 1910, LG blu-ray, Def Tech ProCinema 100s, Stryke 12" sonosub.
    LR: Onkyo TX-84 (original owner), Aiwa AD-F850 (original owner), Philips TT (old school, 2nd owner), Philips CD (cheap-o), Monitor 5jr+ (original owner - actually, my wife is the original owner; she bought them new when we were dating - sealed the deal).
    Xbox 360/Wii/Kids: Old school huge Sony HD TV, Sherwood RD-6500, Philips DVD, pair Def Tech ProCinema 100.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited September 2003
    Here is my start

    Counterpoint Tube/Mosfet Power amp (12)
    Audio Allusionist preamp

    both for $150.00

    my old RTA8T's rebuilt for whatever Polk gets for new speakers and crossovers? I can't remember so lets say $200.00 total.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,371
    edited September 2003
    denon 2 channel receiver - 300 (?)
    Jensen Outdoors - 40 bucks
    hd wire - 9 bucks
    factory cables - 15 bucks
    Discman cd player - 50 bucks
    y splitter - 3 bucks
    SVS Pb2 ISD - 900 (WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

    Ok Im done! I bet it'll rule (in the bass department)
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,987
    edited September 2003
    Here's what I put together for $2400:

    *Parasound HCA-1500A Amp....$749.00 (retail $995.00)
    Parasound PHP-850 Preamp...$249.00 (retail $450.00)
    *Cambridge Audio D500SE CD Player...$325.00 (retail $469.00)
    *Athena AS-F2 Tower Speakers...$599 (retail $599)
    *Audioquest Granite speaker cable...$280.00 (retail $489.00)
    Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects...$144.00 (retail $144)

    And to top it all off, my amp/speakers/cables/cd player are all Stereophile* recommended components. You just gotta get the most bang for your buck!
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,371
    edited September 2003
    My 2 Channel Rig....

    Mains -
    RT35i (300)
    **STACKED**
    RTi70 (600)

    Main Amps -
    Adcom GFA 545 II (300) For RTi70
    Adcom GFA 535 II (180) For RT35i

    Pioneer Elite VSX-41 (420)

    CD Player - Yamaha CDC 565 (160)

    Cables - (30)
    Speaker Wire - Free

    M&K MX-90 - (450)

    Total: $2440.00

    To think of all the gear I have sold, and how much my 2 channel rig costs....I think I need mental help....
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited September 2003
    Sid,

    The point of the exercise was to see what you could come up with for 1400 NEW. As in NOT preowned.

    I think steveinaz is on the right track. That is a pretty pimpin' rig.

    Like I said, I was just curious to see what 1400 bucks actually brings on the new market....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,371
    edited September 2003
    BDT,
    My response was to this guy steveinaz
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited September 2003
    No worries Sid.

    I'll put my Amazings up against your SVS allday allabout. :D


    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,371
    edited September 2003
    No SVS here...not yet anyways
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited September 2003
    Let's see...

    NAD C541i $500
    Antique Sound Lab AQ-2004DT $289
    2 Antique Sound Lab Wave-8 $200
    Polk Audio RTi28 or newer line $300

    Total is $1289. Enough money left for some IC's and speaker wires. If you go for the NAD C521i, you'll save even more.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2003
    Hmmm, new for $1400? Let me work on this. Do closeouts count if I can link to em?

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,638
    edited September 2003
    Sure, do it up.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • shackshack Posts: 11,284
    edited September 2003
    $1,400...

    Stuff I've actually heard at NEW street prices...not MSRP:

    Polk LSi9 - $600
    NAD C370 Integrated Amp - $425
    Sony SCD C222ES SACD CD Changer - $325
    Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects - $32
    Speaker wire (best I can get for) - $18

    Total = $1,400. I think this could be a killer 2 channel rig!


    Now my current 2 channel system was relatively inexpensive:

    Denon DRA- 685 stereo receiver - $200 (refurbished)
    Polk RT25i speakers - $88 (new - Crutchfield closeout)
    Polk PSW 202 subwoofers (2) - $125 (new - bought from individual but never been used - promo deals)
    Sony SCD C222ES SACD CD Changer - $325 (new)
    Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects - $32 (new)
    Audioquest Type 2+ speaker cable - $60 (new)

    Total cost = $830 (MSRP was probably around $1,800 - $1,900)

    It is probably not what someone would consider a GREAT 2 channel rig but it sounds pretty good and I like it!
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • Frank ZFrank Z Polk-a-dweeb Posts: 5,967
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by RuSsMaN
    Hmmm, new for $1400? Let me work on this. Do closeouts count if I can link to em?

    Cheers,
    Rooster

    Now don't start pulling those Rat Shack 6x9's mounted in a shoebox speakers out of the "Great Crap from High School" closet!
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,431
    edited September 2003
    Shack - That is a nice pick, perfectly suited, good call.

    Steveinaz - Hey another Parasound user, this is getting a little more comfortable now. Welcome to the forum. :)

    You guys, the whole forum, are listing some nice items, its neat to just see names and models sometimes, and think of them again.
  • setzer808setzer808 Posts: 173
    edited October 2003
    Hmm...I'll throw my 2channel portion of my HT in

    Polk RT55i's - $265 pair
    PSW-350 - $199
    Yamaha RX-V496 - $260
    Monster Z1 speaker cable - $40
    Teac 5 disc CD - $60
    Monster Interconnect - $15

    Total: $839

    Hehe, enough change left over for some actual media to listen to ;)
    Polk CS245i Center
    Polk RT55i Mains
    Polk RT25i Rears
    Polk PSW-350 Sub -in storage.
    Yamaha RX-V681 A/V Reciever
    Sony SCD-CE595 SACD Player
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