Squeezebox Touch-tips, tricks & tweaks

SCompRacer

heiney9 wrote: »

Ok, let's go with "discerning listener's", rather than "snobby audiophile"

Hey, I LOVE this product, how it interphases, and what it's done to increase my listening habits and get more enjoyment from my rig.

I'm all in for that!:cheesygrin: You may recall when I first inherited a Bolder modded SB3 from Norm's estate. I just wasn't ready for the media server thing then. Now, you would have to pry the Touch with modded external DAC out of my hands.

Steve, IIRC you need the Gold version of MM to do mp3 on the fly. I downloaded the Jriver demo, installed it and will give it a try. One thing I truly dislike is the learning curve with new software.

I'm somewhat picky too. I started with a box stock DAC and made it better. I will try some other DAC's just to make sure there isn't something I might like better. And I also have my vinyl to 'fiddle' with.:cheesygrin: Before I got to the level of analog I have now, Norm wasn't impressed. Then one day he remarked "Now I hear what all the fuss is about."

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

Never heard that before, never had an issue. Where did you read this? And yes, you were saying it incorrectly. :cheesygrin::razz: WAV files have nothing to do with it. Converting at the SQB is not an issue and the "load" is minimal and should affect nothing. I've never had a hiccup or drop-out that wasn't a glitch in my wireless router. I do know DKG999 was running several as in about 6 wireless devices at one time and he did get the SQB to "bog" down as well as the other devices.

Otherwise, it's never been an issue.

H9

Actually, Brock - Steve is correct here. Have a look at this:

http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html

This is one of soundcheck's recommended practices. The idea being that the Touch is very limited in terms of processing power, and you want it's full processing capabilities dedicated to jitter-reduction. If you stream the flacs to the Touch in flac format, then the music needs to be decompressed within the Touch itself. Instead, you can set SqueezeCenter to stream the flac as pcm, therefore the decompression happens on your server. This doesn't in any way inhibit the display from seeing your tags (although soundcheck recommends turning off the display...), that data is still passed from the server to the Touch just fine. But it does reduce the load on the Touch's processor, at the expense of needing more network bandwidth because you're streaming the uncompressed data. Best to be using wired ethernet between the Touch and your router, rather than wifi, definitely in the case of streaming uncompressed pcm.

I've implemented all of soundcheck's tweaks that he included in toolbox 2.0, except I didn't throttle my server's ethernet down to 100mb. I haven't applied toolbox 3.0 yet, but I need to do a SqueezeCenter upgrade anyway so I'll bite that bullet at the same time. I may try the 100mb tweak when I apply Toolbox 3.0, because my server has two ethernet connections so I can set one up as 100mb and leave it dedicated to Squeezebox streaming (I use the same server for SageTV as well).

For what it's worth, applying these Toolbox 2.0 tweaks did make a noticeable improvement.

heiney9

I understand PCM, it's just when WAV was mentioned, that's why I said there would be no ID3 tags. After Steve explained further then I figured out what he meant. I will look into this, like I said, I set it up and haven't really closely followed all the tweaks people have done or recommended.

I appreciate any current tips people have come across. Perhaps I need a refresher on what's been updated in the past couple years. :cool:

steveinaz

That blog is one of the areas where I've seen this "tweak" mentioned.

nspindel

FYI, I had my Touch modded by Bolder Cable (before I even got it, I had it shipped directly to Wayne). Bolder recommends using all of soundcheck's mods.

That said, the Touch sounds pretty damn good right out of the box, even with the switching power supply. From a sound quality perspective, it's a big step up from the Squeezebox 3. One thing that I read in several reviews was that there is significant improvement in isolation from power supply noise, so although the linear power supply upgrade still offers improvements, it's nowhere near the drastic improvement that the power supply upgrade made with the SB3.

steveinaz

I've read that too, that the Touch power supply is not as bad as the SB3s was, so the upgrade isn't nearly as drastic an improvement.

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

I've read that too, that the Touch power supply is not as bad as the SB3s was, so the upgrade isn't nearly as drastic an improvement.

To my ears it was very substantial with the linear power supply, the same as the SB3 since I owned that prior to the Touch. The "big step up" comes from better dac's in the Touch vs. the SB3 and a slightly better analog section. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase or build a better power supply. In fact I would insist on it, but then again I've compared the stock to the Welbourne and I would never go back. The switching walwart is pretty much the same for both units.

H9

heiney9

I costs quite a bit of money to properly isolate noise from a switching power supply and I doubt at the $299 price point the Touch differs greatly from the SB3 in this area since they use the exact same type of switching walwart.

I had a SB3 w/ a bolder modded ELPAC vs. walwart........big difference

The Touch w/Welbourne labs (same mods essentially as the bolder modded ELPAC) vs. walwart..........big difference. Atleast you can sample the Touch with the supplied supply and later if you get a linear PS you'll have a good baseline for comparison.

H9

mdaudioguy

Squeeze Commander (Android app) converts flac to mp3 when downloading from my library to my phone - a cool and convenient feature. Not sure if iPeng supports anything similar.

heiney9

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Squeeze Commander (Android app) converts flac to mp3 when downloading from my library to my phone - a cool and convenient feature. Not sure if iPeng supports anything similar.

Is that wirelessly? Bluetooth enabled? What Android phone do you have? I know the new Droid Bionic lets you dl stuff via bluetooth from your computer.

nspindel

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Squeeze Commander (Android app) converts flac to mp3 when downloading from my library to my phone - a cool and convenient feature. Not sure if iPeng supports anything similar.

Yes, it does.

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

I costs quite a bit of money to properly isolate noise from a switching power supply and I doubt at the $299 price point the Touch differs greatly from the SB3 in this area since they use the exact same type of switching walwart.

I had a SB3 w/ a bolder modded ELPAC vs. walwart........big difference

The Touch w/Welbourne labs (same mods essentially as the bolder modded ELPAC) vs. walwart..........big difference. Atleast you can sample the Touch with the supplied supply and later if you get a linear PS you'll have a good baseline for comparison.

H9

Oh, don't get me wrong, I haven't even tested it with my own ears, I built a Welborne as well.

steveinaz

I'll make Santa pay for my Welborne...preassembled of course..LOL


Of ALL nights, I have to stay late tonight, damit. Carpet cleaning by contractors--should go fast though. Knowing UPS, it'll be 9:30pm before my package arrives...

nspindel

You really trust the elves to do the assembly for you ? :razz:

SCompRacer

nspindel wrote: »

Actually, Brock - Steve is correct here. Have a look at this:

http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/11/touch-toolbox-30.html

It took me longer than 10 minutes of intensive reading and more than 20 minutes max to set it up, but I got soundcheck's Toolbox 3.0 going on my Touch. I have a Welborne PS that this elf assembled powering my Touch and it feeds into a modded Music Hall 25.3 DAC. Running SS out currently on the DAC, which bypasses the tube and all coupling caps. No big changes jumped out at me with some familiar fav tracks, but some subtle improvements were heard. A little smoother, better tonal balance. Myself, I welcome any percentage of improvement. I'll do some critical listening this weekend. Thanks for bringing this up Steve, and thanks nspindel for chiming in.

A nekkid shot of my Welborne labs PS...


The modded Music Hall 25.3 DAC with Burson HD op amps, higher quality Fox crystal oscillator (installed after this pic was taken-Thanks Fred!) and Mundorf M-Caps for op amp/tube out coupling. Balanced or SS out goes direct out of the Bursons bypassing the tube/coupling caps.

heiney9

Steve is M.I.A. so I'm guessing his listening session was a success? Or a complete failure, and he hates it :eek:

H9

steveinaz

I'm here, did about 4 straight hours of listening yesterday. I want to be fair to the SQB, so I'm gonna try some A/B testing this evening with my CEC. So far, the Touch is a bit of a dual-personality piece; but let me do a ton more listening, confirm some things that I suspect may be skewing my observations.

I had a bit of an ah-ha moment via my wife. Now keep in mind, an audiophile she is not, but in a lot of ways that can be a good thing when it comes to honest opinions (zero placebo). Now, I'm gonna quote her directly---you take it for what it's worth---her statement after listening for awhile with me was this: "It's sounds real nice....not as good as your CD player, but close." That took me aback a little, mostly because I didn't realize how close attention she pays when listening. I then asked her what about the Touch she felt was inferior---interesting, but I won't go into it.

More listening, more music; need to make sure I'm being as objective as possible.

nspindel

SCompRacer wrote: »

It took me longer than 10 minutes of intensive reading and more than 20 minutes max to set it up, but I got soundcheck's Toolbox 3.0 going on my Touch.

Oh, for sure - the 10 minutes reading a 20 minutes of work claim is a bit optimistic. Definitely took me longer to apply 2.0, which is why I haven't done any upgrading yet.

nspindel

steveinaz wrote: »

I'm here, did about 4 straight hours of listening yesterday. I want to be fair to the SQB, so I'm gonna try some A/B testing this evening with my CEC. So far, the Touch is a bit of a dual-personality piece; but let me do a ton more listening, confirm some things that I suspect may be skewing my observations.

I had a bit of an ah-ha moment via my wife. Now keep in mind, an audiophile she is not, but in a lot of ways that can be a good thing when it comes to honest opinions (zero placebo). Now, I'm gonna quote her directly---you take it for what it's worth---her statement after listening for awhile with me was this: "It's sounds real nice....not as good as your CD player, but close." That took me aback a little, mostly because I didn't realize how close attention she pays when listening. I then asked her what about the Touch she felt was inferior---interesting, but I won't go into it.

More listening, more music; need to make sure I'm being as objective as possible.

Just remember that like any other piece of gear, it needs break-in time. I let mine go for a few hundred hours before doing any real listening.

After that, if you're still not thinking it's up to the level of your cd player, you can always start modding it :twisted:

nspindel

http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-413/Logitech%2C-Touch%2C-mod%2C-24-dsh-96%2C/Detail

http://welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm

20% off on the power supply...

heiney9

I can say, and I am not at all being defensive, the achilles heal is the power supply. Maybe Rich will re-post the scope image of the sine wave of the walwart and then the linear supply. And of course be sure you have the settings correct. But also more listening is certainly needed. I never honestly evaluate anything for atleast a few months of living with it. I may always have a running commentary, but my true, objective final opinion always comes much later after really giving it a listen.

H9

nspindel

Steve, Brock is right about the settings - one wrong setting in SqueezeCenter, and you can have your perfect flacs transcoded to mp3 on the fly by the server without you even being aware.

steveinaz

Break-in is exactly one of those things that I want to make sure I'm being fair about, so the listening continues. Also, Brock, I hear you on long term listening, especially with digital sources. The particular (let's call them) tonal signatures I'm hearing, I highly doubt would be power supply related--while PS upgrades can reduce noise, remove some grain, etc., these are "big picture" observations about overall tonal shifts.

But, let me not fall victim to conjecture...more listening! I suspect the A/B testing may (or may not) confirm some things for me.

heiney9

I can say of the 5 people I know personally who have these and who's rigs I've listened to, the gap should be minimal to non-existent vs. a very good cdp. If you talking about a top end cdp or something very esoteric then the SQB probably won't sound as good.

If I have time this weekend Steve, I'll try and delve into my settings for Squeeze Center and see if there are some obvious settings that are crucial. I can't promise because between OT at work and the final push to clean gutters and leaves before our first snow-fall here will keep me very busy.

H9

steveinaz

nspindel wrote: »

Steve, Brock is right about the settings - one wrong setting in SqueezeCenter, and you can have your perfect flacs transcoded to mp3 on the fly by the server without you even being aware.

Well hook me up, what settings should I be verifying?---right now I'm running the Touch bone-stock (except for like wallpaper, screen brightness and that kind of crap). Decoding is being done at the Touch. The only configuration settings I've changed was mapping to my music folder. Everything is in flac, ripped with EAC in secure mode---being sent via wireless.

AGAIN fellas, this is all very premature, on a unit with exactly 5 hours on it. Let me get my listen on some more.

heiney9

steveinaz wrote: »

Break-in is exactly one of those things that I want to make sure I'm being fair about, so the listening continues. Also, Brock, I hear you on long term listening, especially with digital sources. The particular (let's call them) tonal signatures I'm hearing, I highly doubt would be power supply related--while PS upgrades can reduce noise, remove some grain, etc., these are "big picture" observations about overall tonal shifts.

But, let me not fall victim to conjecture...more listening! I suspect the A/B testing may (or may not) confirm some things for me.

Will say adding the PS did in fact have some effect on "tone", it was more subtle than the obvious reduced noise and larger soundstage. Time will tell and if you happen to be one who doesn't care for it, you can flip it very easily.

Keep us posted.

H9

steveinaz

Keep in mind, I've been listening to the same source (CEC and Benchmark) for over 7 years. I am keenly (sp?) aware of their every aspect, if you get my meaning. When I insert a new source, differences (if present) are usually apparent--now "differences" should not carry a connotation of meaning "worse"--that's where my observation of the Touch being "dual-personality" comes in.

Do you guys want some specific first impressions?

heiney9

I was in the same boat with my dac and source when I started using the SQB II 3-4 years ago, but I didn't notice anything that stood out until I replaced the power supply. In fact I was a skeptic about replacing the PS and I'll be damned if it wasn't an instant, pleasant surprise. If you want to give your first impressions, sure. That way if it changes we'll know.

I completely understand first impressions as being just that, sometimes they stick sometimes they don't.

H9

nspindel

Go into your Squezebox Server, then to the Advanced tab, and then set the drop down to File Types. Look for FLAC under File Format, and then you should see a setting for FLAC, MP3, and PCM. Set FLAC to disabled, MP3 to disabled, and PCM to flac. This will force the flac decompression to happen on your server, and ensure that you're not streaming any mp3.

I'd advise that you go into your player settings, and under Audio, set Volume Control to "Output level is fixed at 100%"

I would also advise that you use wired ethernet between your Touch and your router. Having a wifi receiver/transmitter active inside the player can't possibly be helping sound quality. It's not about whether wifi can handle the networking aspect, people making that argument are fools and will also tell you to purchase a $500 ethernet cable. That's nonsense. But reducing RFI is not. Soundcheck's mods, if I remember correctly, actually disables the wifi altogether.

steveinaz

Well, I'm thinking it might help as maybe you guys will identify with some of the things I'm observing--