Just heard RTI12 !!!

crusher372

Hopefully I am not stating something already discussed but I just spent an hour at my local FRYS listening to the new RTi12.

My first impression was "My goodness those are beautiful". They really have to be seen as the picture on the Polk site does not do them justice. They were set up on the main floor so the listening environment was terrible but during the hour there were a few moments of quiet. As has been discussed they are using the existing RTI tweeter and stood about the same height as the RTI150 but are a little more narrow. The built in spikes were a nice addition and almost give the base an alien type look. (I liked it)

The sound was as anticipated fantastic. Had they been in an enclosed room this certainly would have helped but Dianna Krall sounded fantastic. I love that DVD for showing off my RTI70 SVS combo and the salesman, also owning RTI70's, thought the same exact thing. The soundstage and imaging were (cough) a little nicer than my beloved rti70's. Having heard the LSI's and their Vifa tweeters I still believe they own the market musically for the Polk line however a few scenes of Toy Story 2 showed, as in the the older RTI's, the strength of the RTI12. These are made for the home theater environment. I am no audiophile by any stretch but musically they still fall a little short of the LSI line. Despite the small short coming musically there is a definite improvement in presence and when you hear them you will understand. The sound is warm,rich,and full. The RTI series has been criticized for being to bright and I still argue that a good H/K or NAD combo will always help to tame this. It is just not fair to drive the RTI line with a bottom rung Sony and complain about brightness. Ok off of my soap box but Polk has what looks to be a real winner here and at $699 per speaker not a terrible price. I don't think I will be unloading my 70's anytime soon but this new RTI series certainly looks to challenge much more expensive speakers and ultimately win the bang for the buck award again. Good job Polk and keep it up. The RTI12 looks to be another reason why I stay committed to Polk Audio.

brettw22

Few things......

Where are you located that you've already been able to listen to those things......

The new RTi line uses a Vifa tweet, not the same one that they're currently using....

What was the price that they had the 12's going for?

crusher372

I am getting a little more info regarding the tweet. I was expecting a ring radiator so correction made.It is a newer silk/polymer but looks and sounds almost identical to the older Rti series--maybe a little more detailed but in the big open area it was very hard to focus on the finer details. These were on display at my local FRYS in Arlington,Texas. The salesman said $699 for the RTI12. Not for a pair but each.

VR3

The new RTi line does indeed use Vifa Tweeters. A dome vifa, not the ring radiator.

crusher372

SEE AMENDED POST!!!!!! CALL OFF THE DOGS PLEASE!!!!!:D

brettw22

After I posted my questions above, I called Fry's here to see if they had them and they said that they did. I went down there to check them out and was fairly impressed.

Not that this by any means quantifies a review, but just a few thoughts. The Fry's in Tempe, AZ had them in their demo room with a projection TV. As Crusher indicated, the RTi12's are priced there for $699.99 each. I took a few of my cd's, which primarily are techno/trance discs. They had a black pair on display, with a few of the cherry in stock. They'd only been hooked up for about 36 hours and the grills were on.

With the grills on, the appearance of the speakers is fairly subtle. Don't get me wrong, they definitely have a presence in the room. They're taller than the 150's (specs only indicate about a 2" difference, but they look taller than that). When the grill came off, those 12's COMMAND attention. The silver that many were turned off by is VERY VERY nice looking. It isn't a bright silver at all, and with the projo that they had it next to, the speakers were almost an exact match to the box.

Sound was a lil disappointing. When A/B'ing them with the 150s, there was a big void in the bass department. It's hard to say much with soundstage or anything too detailed on that because the 150's were on a 45 degree angle to where the sound totally criss-crossed to the rear surrounds. The 12's though had a very wide soundstage, and the highs were more crisp with the 12's than the 150. The 150's though owned the bass department. It's somewhat hard to say that it's a comparable A/B test because of the speakers being so new and not really having gone through the break-in period.

Anyway, for $700 per speaker, I wasn't walkin out with them. I'll give them a little while to break in and then check back to see what they sound like with a lot of use on them.

VR3

Brett,
Your bass comment. I feel the same about. I heard them on a 200 watt amp and they basically just ate it up.

brettw22

Don't get me wrong........After I played with the setting on the Onkyo that they had it with, it could do the bass pretty damned well. It's just that with the settings the same, the 150's actually produced the bass. I'm sure that a lot of that has to do with break in, but if you have a receiver that has a lot of versatility, then I'd guarantee that you would be VERY happy with the 12's.....

Tour2ma

I feel a road trip coming on...

Thanks for the heads up that the 12's are hitting the stores...

crusher372

Brett,

Totally agree with you on the bass issue. Not fair in my situation really because of the open area demo but I was expecting a little more. Not sure what models, but they were using H/K seperates to power them.

pharoah_35

Good afternoon Ladies & Gents

I just wanted to add my comments concerning new New RTi12's.
I just recently picked up a pair of the RTi12's from CC

My current setup:

Sony DA3 ES (110w per ch x 7)
Polk RTi12 (Front) Black/Silver
JBL P250 (Sub)
JBL Center II (Center)
Infinity PSB12 (Rear)

I have been at CC for most of the day listening to the RTi12's
with various media i.e. Jazz Music, Rock, Pop and movies and I got to say that these speakers are AWESOME !!!. The clarity and fullness is just amazing. So after hanging out in CC listening to these things for a couple of hours, I just had to buy them.

Thay have a special now, a set of the RTi12's with a free sub (Polk 202s). $689.00 per speaker. But you can just get the RTi12's without the sub if you already have one and save $200.00. If you are interested you should hurry doen to CC. I don't know when this special will expire. But I tell you this. If you are a music lover like me, you will absolutly LOVE the RTi12's.

Just my opinion, I hope it helps.

Pharoah35

dorokusai

Glad to hear you are enjoying the speakers, they are real cool.

So would you say that the Sony STR-DA3ES runs your RTi12 just fine? Are you able to crank them really loud with no problems? I would be very interested in your comments.

pharoah_35

hey dorokusai


Yes ineed, I am able to crank the STR-DA3 ES up, so much so that
it shakes the house, and the RTi12's does not miss a beat. These speakers are incredable. The 500 watt capacity is a real plus. They even shake the house without the use of the sub. But when I add the sub, My goodness. I had to hold items down.

I am certainly enjoying them, I certainly recommend them if you are in the market to either get some new front speakers and/or upgrade from your current front speakers.

I am glad I chose the RTi12's - Great Speakers...
Wonderful Job Polk, I can't wait to see what they are cooking up next...

Pharoah35

dorokusai

Pharoah - Cool, glad they perform well with your Sony ES. I will file this for future reference

RVJII

I am currently running the 12's with an Onkyo TX-NR900 (110W x 7...140 Dynamic @ 8 Ohms) and have had the same experience. These things really shake the walls and I haven't had any problems yet. (Except for the neighbor complaining...)

Sometime down the line I may get a seperate amp to run them but have no fear that they can be run with a receiver.

Although, as suggested here by one very creative individual, I am thinking of using my zone 2 channels to bi-amp them just to see how it works.

Frank Z

Originally posted by RVJII
Although, as suggested here by one very creative individual, I am thinking of using my zone 2 channels to bi-amp them just to see how it works.

Better check your manual first. Most receivers will cut the output in half to power A & B (Zone 2) speakers at the same time.

RVJII

Rated 110W x 7 with all channels running.

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz-20 kHz, FTC)
Front L/R 110 W/Ch
Center 110 W
Surround L/R 110 W/Ch
Surround Back 110 W/Ch (L/R)


Not sure why so many here have a problem with receivers and Onkyo but this is a class A...nice and heavy.

I used to be a HK fan until my last one...talk about a "cheaped up" piece of junk...

dorokusai

Originally posted by RVJII
Not sure why so many here have a problem with receivers and Onkyo but this is a class A...nice and heavy.

I am sure you mean Class A, as in really cool....not Class A as in amplifier design. The Onkyo is not a Class A amplifer, but its very nice

RVJII

Hmmmm....

According to what I have read and what their tech support told me, it has discrete Class A amplifiers. It seems heavy enough for this to be true. (about 40 lbs) Also, it runs warm just like a Class A. (Before you say anything, it ran warm on my old JBL's as well as my RTi12's.)

Have I been mislead and misinformed? If so, I will be rather upset. :mad:

RVJII

Originally posted by dorokusai
I am sure you mean Class A, as in really cool....not Class A as in amplifier design. The Onkyo is not a Class A amplifer, but its very nice

Of course, now you've got me going a bit nuts looking at other options. The Adcom GFA-7805 and 7807's look VERY nice. If only I had unlimited funds...

Emlyn

RVJ,
Most consumer amplifiers have Class AB designs which make the best blend of both Class A and Class B designs and are most suitable for general home use. Although some manufacturers will sometimes claim that their amplifiers operate as "Class A" designs, they are usually twisting the design designation for marketing reasons. An amplifier either has a pure Class A design and works only in that mode all the time or it isn't really a Class A amplifier. Pure Class A designs aren't used in receivers and most amplifiers because they are inefficient and produce too much heat. Class B designs aren't used in receivers because they can distort too much. For speakers like the RTi12s or RTi150s, one is better off having a Class AB amplifier, which most are really anyway. That way, low distortion and efficiency can be accommodated.

The following is an explanation of amplifier classes I clipped from somewhere because I had no idea what Class D was:

Class A - Class A operation is where both devices conduct continuously for the entire cycle of signal swing, or the bias current flows in the output devices at all times. The key ingredient of class A operation is that both devices are always on. There is no condition where one or the other is turned off. Because of this, class A amplifiers are single-ended designs with only one type polarity output devices. Class A is the most inefficient of all power amplifier designs, averaging only around 20%. Because of this, class A amplifiers are large, heavy and run very hot. All this is due to the amplifier constantly operating at full power. The positive effects of all this is that class A designs are inherently the most linear, with the least amount of distortion. Devices operate during each cycle of signal swing. Also defined in terms of output bias current, (the amount of current flowing in the output devices with no signal).
Class B operation is the opposite of class A. Both output devices are never allowed to be on at the same time, or the bias is set so that current flow in a specific output device is zero when not stimulated with an input signal, i.e., the current in a specific output flows for one half cycle. Thus each output device is on for exactly one half of a complete sinusoidal signal cycle. Due to this operation, class B designs show high efficiency but poor linearity around the crossover region. This is due to the time it takes to turn one device off and the other device on, which translates into extreme crossover distortion.
Class AB operation allows both devices to be on at the same time (like in class A), but just barely. The output bias is set so that current flows in a specific output device appreciably more than a half cycle but less than the entire cycle. That is, only a small amount of current is allowed to flow through both devices, unlike the complete load current of class A designs, but enough to keep each device operating so they respond instantly to input voltage demands. Thus the inherent non-linearity of class B designs is eliminated, without the gross inefficiencies of the class A design. It is this combination of good efficiency (around 50%) with excellent linearity that makes class AB the most popular audio amplifier design.
Class AB plus B design involves two pairs of output devices: one pair operates class AB while the other (slave) pair operates class B.
Class D operation is switching, hence the term switching power amplifier. Here the output devices are rapidly switched on and off at least twice for each cycle. Since the output devices are either completely on or completely off they do not theoretically dissipate any power. Consequently class D operation is theoretically 100% efficient, but this requires zero on-impedance switches with infinitely fast switching times -- a product we're still waiting for; meanwhile designs do exist with true efficiencies approaching 90%.
Class G operation involves changing the power supply voltage from a lower level to a higher level when larger output swings are required. There have been several ways to do this. The simplest involves a single class AB output stage that is connected to two power supply rails by a diode, or a transistor switch. The design is such that for most musical program material, the output stage is connected to the lower supply voltage, and automatically switches to the higher rails for large signal peaks. Another approach uses two class AB output stages, each connected to a different power supply voltage, with the magnitude of the input signal determining the signal path.
Class H operation takes the class G design one step further and actually modulates the higher power supply voltage by the input signal. This allows the power supply to track the audio input and provide just enough voltage for optimum operation of the output devices. The efficiency of class H is comparable to class G designs.
Tube - Electron tube evacuated to such a degree that its electrical characteristics are essentially unaffected by the presence of residual gas or vapor. Amplifier using tube type electrical devices.

RVJII

Thanks for the clarification...seems one of my "knowledge" friends had things a bit confused when I was purchasing my receiver. I think that it sounds great and was getting a bit worried that I'd have to turn around and sell it (after paying $1500) and upgrade after only 6 months.

(I love the fact that I hooked it into my WLAN and never have to change CD's since I copied them all, without compression, onto a few large hard drives.)

Always good to get the straight story and learn a bit more.

dorokusai

RJ - Emlyn nailed the information portion about the definitions of amplifier design.

Here is a great link for audio definitions:

http://www.rane.com/digi-dic.html

Onkyo uses NFB and WRAT, which is their own proprietary amplifier design...kinda like Sony does with their guts. It may be heavy, and may run warm, but it doesn't automatically make it a Class A amplifier. I wouldn't say you were lied to, but you were certainly a little mislead, IMO. I just think they are being a little too generous with their definition of the amp section.

Telemundo

So....you're saying that alot of the midrage AVRs out there that cannot bi-amp the RTi12s with the Zone 2?

mpouli101

Per an email I sent to Polk Customer service, cant remember the guys name, Ken maybe, the "new" Rti tweeter is "very similar" to the one in the last Rti series. So the one in the Rti 4 is "very similar" to the Rti 28. Of course they are different from the old Tri lam from the Rt25i. Ken, still think that was his name, said that both the Rti4 and Rti28 speaker were very similar and made by Vifa of Denmark.

agw

Although the claim is that both tweeters are made by Vifa (Rti28, Rti4) there is a dramatic difference in how they sound. The new one IMO is much more detailed and open not muffled like the previous tweeter (Rti28).

Telemundo

hi, I'm just about to go and check out some of the higher end speakers out there...like KEF XQ series, Paradigm, B&W. What should i listen for? I heard some of the higher end speakers of B&W the other day. The system sounded so nice, that i felt like i just walked out of the theatres when I'm done ( the L and R and center alone would cost about 6 grand). I dont wanna spend that much on speakers, but is that how expensive speakers suppose to make u feel? Make u feel like u just went to the real movies but at home? What's a good higher end speaker that cost a little more than the Polk's and under about 8 grand? Any suggestions would be great. Thank you.

dane

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Brett,
Your bass comment. I feel the same about. I heard them on a 200 watt amp and they basically just ate it up.

i dont mean to argue with you^, but it seems that with a 90db of sensitivity powered with a 100w/c amp is about hmm..
106.3 db at 10 feet listening position.

i have no experience about polks, but it seems that 200, 300 or even 500 watt amp feeding this speaker is not right.

with that db sensitivity of 90, powered with a 50w amp, will have 103.3 db at 10 feet listening position.

why does it need so much juice to make this speaker sing?
hey Vr3MxStyler2k3, what amp was it hooked up when you tested it?

Tour2ma

Finally gave these a listen yesterday at a local CC (took a short shopping break). They were driven by a HK AVR (75 wpc). Source was a Sony carrousel all-in-one player.

At first a Santana DVD was playing and the the bass seemed overblown and muddy. Then I found an offending Velo sub bleeting away, killed it and things improved.

Upon inspection of the players discs found the SACD DSOTM was present. I set the AVR to 2 ch and fired it up.... nice. Then went to SACD mode and... nice.

I found the 12's to be very smooth, very well mannered with a kind of understated power that was begging to be cut loose. I could own these, but don't need them.

As for multi-ch SACD... In the sweet spot it was very reminiscent of the SDA effects with which I live.

VR3

When I heard the RTi12, it was in the Polk Audio HQ Demo room. They had conrad johnson amps, Sony ES cd players, etc. Very nice gear. The bass was good, just not what I expected from 6 7.5" woofers. Ya know what I mean?

The Silk and the Silk Polymer sound nothing alike, they're oil and water. The only way you can integrate a silk into a tri lam/polymer speaker is stack one on top of it to match it up.

Gooday.

BTW - I run a Silk, Tri Lam, Polymer and Horn tweeter in the same room...

brettw22

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
BTW - I run a Silk, Tri Lam, Polymer and Horn tweeter in the same room...

I can't help but notice that you didn't say it sounded good.......interesting...;)