Wmd

Frank Z

Got this in the mail today from my old boss and thought I'd share with all of you folks.

Old records can still bite!!!!

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI),
Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real"
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

SO NOW THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED--THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR UNECESSARILY!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...................... Q?

WMD =
Whinny Mad Democrats

F1nut

Gold...Jerry....Gold!

LiquidSound

So it's "do as you should, but not as I say"....? Backpeddling motherfuckers. If any of them were in office, we'd still be apologizing for 9/11. "I"m so sorry we made you do this to us...and to think we put the blame on you??? Here's a monument and a cable channel..hope your feelings aren't hurt."

Frank Z

Liquid,
BINGO!!

LiquidSound

Actually Frank, that's what we did. Sent them the game of bingo. "B-51? B-51?"

Sorry, old joke but it worked.

dcarlson

So, where are the WMDs?

Frank Z

Considering the fact that Iraq is approx. the same size as California, it may take a long time to find them. But I'm confident we will!!

dcarlson

They were supposed to be so rampant. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I don't buy into it.

F1nut

Do you buy that if gone unchecked, you'd be going there for vacation??? Who cares if we find WMD or not, the world is a better place now and you may actually be able to vacation there soon.

VR3

Where in the eff would you want to go on vacation in a dang desert?????????????????????????????????? Or is there a place there with actual grass? I mean all I see on TV is tanks going across the desert and dudes that are heating ham and sand sandwhiches!

dcarlson

Originally posted by F1nut
Do you buy that if gone unchecked, you'd be going there for vacation??? Who cares if we find WMD or not, the world is a better place now and you may actually be able to vacation there soon.

If anything, the world is a more dangerous place.

Yes, Saddam was a bad bad man. Removing him has given the terrorists more fuel for their cause in the land of sand.

The whole idea of the war was WMD. None found yet? I don't know, something fishy going on the oval office.

LiquidSound

So, you're dealing drugs, you find out the cops are on the way to your house sometime in the near future..do you A: Keep your drugs there where they can be found or B: Get rid of your stash and split town or C: Split town but send your stash to a friend who can hold it for you so you can make money after the dust settles.

It's the same thing.

"They were supposed to be so rampant.

Sorry, I don't buy into it"

What don't you buy into? That they had them? Just ask the relatives of people he used them on. His own people, I might add. He had several, mobile biological and chemical production labs that were disigned for wmd. Yes they were wiped clean, but aren't most cars when stolen?

The big thing is, where are the wmd. ALL of the politicians on BOTH sides knew he had them. But now, since they are hidden, it's become a tool for political agendas. Forget he used to slaughter his own people at a whim..forget the 5000+ mass graves where people where just piled and covered, which is the only way to conserve land when burying that many people..forget how he would torture and kill olympic athletes for not performing well enough..forget how he and his sons would take their pick of elementary school age girls, then procede to rape and kill them as they wished..forget it all. Because it all doesn't justify our problems in searching for the needle in a house of sand. Even though we ALL knew he had the needle. If you want to hear about it first hand, just ask his people.

Frank Z

I respect any and all positions on this whole affair. I personnally think we waited too damn long to do anything.

But more importantly this debate proves 1 thing to me. We are all blessed to live in a country where we can disagree with our government, literally and figurativly(sp?), and not be punished for doing so.

With that in mind, regardless of your party affiliation, political idealogy, reservations about our role in the middle east.....


Be thankfull for what/who you are and where you live.

LiquidSound

"If anything, the world is a more dangerous place."

So, what should we do? Let them stay and build their weapons up? Because stopping them would surely make them mad and want to fight..right?
Which direction do you propose?



I'm very happy Frank, very. And so is Iraq.

dcarlson

Did I not say he was a bad man? Everyone knows that. Don't make it look like I support Saddam, because I certainly do not.

Why does war always have to be the solution?

If freedom was the reason for the war, it should have happened a long time ago and should have been completed in the first Gulf war. According to your administration the war was initiated because of the threat of WMDs, not freedom. Freedom will hopefully be the end result.

F1nut

Trey, the world is bigger than NC!




"Removing him has given the terrorists more fuel for their cause in the land of sand."

So, should we have stuck our heads in the sand and pretended he didn't do half the **** we know he did. Do you really believe that he didn't have WMD??? Do you have to inhale one of his nerve gas agents to be sure? The only good cockroach is a dead one.

LiquidSound

I don't think you support saddam..by any means.
I agree, the war was initiated by wmd and we haven't found any..yet. We acted too slowly as Frank said.

War isn't always the solution, but in this case the human infestation that was saddam's bunch/al queda needed to be stamped out. Or they would come for us. Which they did on 9/11.

9/11 was a stepping stone for them.

dcarlson

Originally posted by Frank Z
I respect any and all positions on this whole affair. I personnally think we waited too damn long to do anything.

But more importantly this debate proves 1 thing to me. We are all blessed to live in a country where we can disagree with our government, literally and figurativly(sp?), and not be punished for doing so.

With that in mind, regardless of your party affiliation, political idealogy, reservations about our role in the middle east.....


Be thankfull for what/who you are and where you live.

Yes, for sure. I'm up here in Canada and am very greatfull for the freedoms I'm awarded for simply living here. Provincial election time is coming in a couple of days and it makes me extremely proud of my country for simply being able to vote for the government of my choosing.

I'm just saying there are a lot people still getting killed in this war, your fellow countrymen. I think it was rushed and not thought through thoroghly. Why was it so rushed? I don't beleive the threat was as imminent as was lead to beleive. North Korea is a much larger threat IMO.

I'm going to stop soon, I can see I hit a nerve and don't want this to become one of those infamous name calling matches.

Demiurge

Originally posted by dcarlson
I'm just saying there are a lot people still getting killed in this war, your fellow countrymen. I think it was rushed and not thought through thoroghly. Why was it so rushed? I don't beleive the threat was as imminent as was lead to beleive. North Korea is a much larger threat IMO.

I'm going to stop soon, I can see I hit a nerve and don't want this to become one of those infamous name calling matches.

A lot of people getting killed in this war?

I don't mean to be rude, but people who were so adamantly against this war have lost ALL of their perspective.

Nobody means to trivialize the lives of the soldiers there, and I have a brother there now...but there needs to be some perspective. If you knew before the war that major combat operations would be over in a month, and the combat casualties would be under 500....Almost the ENTIRE upper echelon of the Hussein regime would either be captured or killed, along with his 2 sons....and that we would be helping the Iraqi people build the infrastructure they never had not 5 months earlier.....

would you still be against it?

Any rational thinking person couldn't possibly.

Allied soldiers were still being killed in Germany long after the **** surrendered in May 1945. Some were still killed as late as 1949. This is all stuff you should know if you studied any non-revisionist history. We're still in Germany today after WW2. What exactly do you think would have happened if we cut & ran from the ****'s?

The answer is that you might not have the freedoms you have today.

Now, you mentioned not aligning yourself with thinking Saddam was a good guy, then what exactly were you going to do with him? He killed 1.5 million Muslims in a his reign of terror. If torturing, raping, maiming, and murdering your own people isn't terrorism, then I don't know what is.

You cannot reason with unreasonable people. There is no negotioation with tyrants. That is how our government USED to operate until the gigantic wakeup call on 9/11.

Pandering to the likes of Saddam & Bin Laden is exactly what they want. Giving away our freedoms through the acts of fear is how they plan to 'win'. They would want nothing more than for us to crawl back to our own country and stick our head between our knees and 'hope' that it goes away.

Terrorism is a U.S threat, it's a world thread. It's just as much Canada's problem as it is anyone elses. If you understand the militant Islamic sects, such as the Wahabbi's you'd have a better grasp on what their message is.

Freedom doesn't exist in their world.

And well, I'm sorry, but the U.S, and freedom loving nations across this planet cannot coexist in a world where this kind of thinking is propogated. It's pure unbridled hatred. Their is no logic or rational behind it. It is EVIL.

This is a fight that was started by terrorists. It is time to stand up to it and fight it every step of the way. Iraq's people are not the last people of a tyrannically run nation that will be able to live a natural human existence through freedom and justice.

This fight will march on, and North Korea will be dealt with as well....(If you want to talk NK, I'd be glad to, but Saddam was a much bigger threat and I'd be glad to explain why.)


So DC, I'm asking you to open your eyes to the realization that their is a defined Good VS Evil battled being waged right now. We can no longer turn a blind eye to it. Saddam killed 1.5 million people that way....should we just ignore people like him in the future and pretend it never happened?

Why does their need to be war? I hope I answered your question. No peace has ever come through anything less than strength or war.

burdette

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Where in the eff would you want to go on vacation in a dang desert?

You can find great scenery and things to do just about anywhere. Phoenix is a great vacation... I was there twice when my mother lived down there. We went rock/moutain climbing one morning and had to quit by about 10am because the rocks were too hot to touch. Drove down to Tombstone, went to the military aircraft graveyards in Tucson, stopped by the meteor crater, saw a huge dam project, drove through Sedona... There are lawns in Phoenix that are pea gravel painted green... but my mother had grapefruit, orange, and lemon trees in her yard. You have to watch out for all the ACME instant holes flying around, though, lest one land in front of you.

Now.. I can NOT imagine Iraq is going to become a big tourist hot spot for Americans any time soon. Wait for McDonalds to go in... then buy your ticket.

Demiurge

Not to mention.....

The Baghdad area is the birth of Civilization. Thats where the 'fertile cresent' is....c'mon you've read about the Tigris & Euphrates in World History class haven't you?

Hell...they say Afganistan has world class trout fishing.

But hey...maybe someday I can go. That would be neat. But no way I would have gone before with a bunch of tyranical madmen running around killing you because you looked at their leader the wrong way. :rolleyes:

Frank Z

Excellant responses by ALL! I'm impressed! Hell we haven't even got down in the gutter to question anyone's parentage.

Good job folks!

Demiurge

Originally posted by Frank Z
Excellant responses by ALL! I'm impressed! Hell we haven't even got down in the gutter to question anyone's parentage.

Good job folks!

Hey, don't count us out yet.

dorokusai

All I can say is: "Come on up too Damascus, you terrorist ****....I skull fook you like I did Hurricane Isabel. Losers."

VR3

Mark,
That name Damascus has the funniest spelling. Dam As Cus So close to 2 cuss words, and almost spells cuss on the end. Wow, that is really weird.

Jesse,
In NC, we have grass, in IRAQ.....they have sand. Infact, it's like a gigantic sandbox. It'd be a perfect vacation spot for 2 year olds.....can you say "Killer Sand Castle"

Can't ya see it now? These little 2 years olds peeing on the sand to make it wet so they can pack it all together to make a nice lil ol castle? Then a US bomb knocks it down because GDW thinks the 2 year olds are storing nuclear bombs and the likes.....

F1nut

Hmmm.....if I didn't know better I'd swear you've been smokin' some 'o dat NC grass.

VR3

Nope, When I wrote that....i had just woke up......lol

Now Maryland, Baltimore - that place is beautiful at night. IMO

dcarlson

I'm not saying slip out and run now either. You've started something that you absolutely must finish. Otherwise terrorism would thrive in an unstable chaotic country.

War may have been inevitable but again my question is why the rush? Attack and work out the details afterwords? That's pretty reckless. I'd support just about anything the U.S. does, not this though. It's definitely too late to turn back and I think your administration has done a very poor job regarding Iraq. They've managed to alienate just about all support 9/11 brought for the fight against terrorism. There's bad blood between everyone. I still fully support the war on terrorism, New York isn't far from my place. My co-worker and close friend was on top of Trade Center only a few weeks before 9/11. It hit all of us up here hard. My heart still jumps every time I see the god awful footage.

Now, Bush is asking the U.N. for help? IMO, Sorry dude, you got yourself into this, you get yourself out unless you're willing to give over some control to the U.N. which is how things should have been resolved in the first place.

There is a war on terrorism and Canada is patrolling the streets in Afganistan. I truly support the efforts there and always will. I'm just not convinced of the link between Iraq and terrorism. Tyranny yes, terrorism hmmm.

No peace has ever come through anything less than strength or war.

Sorry man, I don't believe that. In this day and age we should be able to find a peaceful solution to most all problems. Or at least try.

Dem, as usual we are at odds. It's all cool though.

Demiurge

Originally posted by dcarlson
I'm not saying slip out and run now either. You've started something that you absolutely must finish. Otherwise terrorism would thrive in an unstable chaotic country.

Who is you? Our country got attacked by terrorists, not the other way around. We are doing the worlds work now, and the work of our own country.

Originally posted by dcarlson

War may have been inevitable but again my question is why the rush? Attack and work out the details afterwords? That's pretty reckless. I'd support just about anything the U.S. does, not this though. It's definitely too late to turn back and I think your administration has done a very poor job regarding Iraq.

Umm, what rush?

The 'war' of 91' never ended. 13 years of the U.N being absolutely USELESS with Iraq. Iraq kicks inspectors out, and lets the go where they want them to go, and they aren't allowed to go anywhere without notice.

Furthermore, it was a year and a half after 9\11 before we went into Iraq. A war isn't something you can sit and plan out for years and years. This war is a result of Saddam's non compliance. Had he just PROVED he had nothing, resolution 1441 would never have been violated. Whether or not we went to war was a burden that rested solely on Saddam's shoulders.

If he didn't have anything to run from, why was he running. It's a simple question you need to ask yourself, and I don't believe for one minute that you're being intellectually honest with yourself here. This shouldn't be a political issue, this should be an issue for humanity, but unfortunately I can't change what the Liberal demagogues have turned this into.

And if you think the administration has done a poor job regarding Iraq, what do you base that on? Liberal news media with a slanted view of reality? Or do you base it on solid facts.

I'll trust my own brother, and the majority of the people in our armed forces before ANY talking heads on ANY given day.


Iraq is 100 times better than it EVER was with saddam. Their have been 5,000 new businesses in Iraq since the end of major combat operations. The majority of the Iraqi people LOVE us. They embrace freedom and are trying to unwind from 30 years of terror and fear.

DCarlson, it's been 5 months. Where is your perspective? This stuff takes time, and this administration is doing a PHENOMONAL job. I hear people like yourself criticizing everything, but I fail to see you offering your own solutions. I also never hear you saying anything good about what this administration has done. I know that if this were a Liberal administration doing this the same way we would not have the rhetorical divisiveness we get from the left today. I supported Clinton in Bosnia when he was President. This is no different. The President is elected to make these decisons and supporting the COUNTRY should mean more than supporting your power structure within your party.

It's the men and women in the armed forces that the left all of a sudden cares about now. If they cared about them why I they emboldening the terrorists with their political rhetoric?

Originally posted by dcarlson

They've managed to alienate just about all support 9/11 brought for the fight against terrorism. There's bad blood between everyone. I still fully support the war on terrorism, New York isn't far from my place. My co-worker and close friend was on top of Trade Center only a few weeks before 9/11. It hit all of us up here hard. My heart still jumps every time I see the god awful footage.

This is completely unfounded. The 2 countries who weren't with us then (France, Germany) are the same 2 countries trying to give grief now...

We have a gigantic coalition of countries that I'm sure you've heard of....Britain, Australia, Spain, Denmark, Czech Republic...The list was I think 49 nations long when we went into Iraq....so please don't feed me the 'unilateral' arguement if thats what you're trying to do.

And...9/11 hit all of us. Some of us were woken up, some of us went back to sleep, and others have never woken up.

If you support the war on terrorism you need to ACT, not sit with your hands under your **** waiting for the terrorists to 'negotiate'.....it will NEVER happened, and it has been tried.

Originally posted by dcarlson

Now, Bush is asking the U.N. for help? IMO, Sorry dude, you got yourself into this, you get yourself out unless you're willing to give over some control to the U.N. which is how things should have been resolved in the first place.

Actually the U.N got itself into it. Resolution 1441 authorized war if Saddam didn't comply, and he didn't. The U.N has no credability anyway. We, and our coalition are the only reasons they have any credability.If I had it my way we'd pull all of our money out of that 'think tank' that never really thinks at all.

It's also funny how it's all politics here too. I thought they U.N wanted to help people. Now the Iraqi people are supposed to suffer more because the U.N wants to play political chess? Give me a break.

Originally posted by dcarlson

There is a war on terrorism and Canada is patrolling the streets in Afganistan. I truly support the efforts there and always will. I'm just not convinced of the link between Iraq and terrorism. Tyranny yes, terrorism hmmm.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.


I guess 1.5 million murdered people isn't terrorism. I'm seriously about to give up talking to you if you can't admit that Saddam is the biggest terrorist in the world today.

Originally posted by dcarlson

Sorry man, I don't believe that. In this day and age we should be able to find a peaceful solution to most all problems. Or at least try.

Dem, as usual we are at odds. It's all cool though.

So how come nobody with your ideological point of view has any solutions? It's all 'doom and gloom' get the Republicans out of power and go back to business as usual.

I think whats got the left in such a tizzy is that this President is doing something about terrorism...instead of looking like a wounded puppy with his tail between his leg.

He's a leader and he's leading. That should garner respect whether you agree with him or not.

I'll be honest I love talking about this, but you haven't had one arguement that makes me think at all. All I hear is the same old stuff that doesn't really connect. I'd rather talk facts that talk about how we 'feel'.

Lets be honest, please.

dcarlson

I'm done.

Frank Z

Demiurge,
Agreed!

It's pretty sad that this had to turn into a political issue at all. A war against a common enemy should not divide a counrty along party lines, but that is exactly what has happened in the good ol' US of A. Democratic leadership is in a tizzy about losing to the Republicans, who in turn are worried about losing to Democrats in the next election. I know a few of the members here will disagree, but I think that the world would be much better off now if the previous administration had been more proactive in it's actions against the 3rd world scum we are now dealing with.

Please don't lecture me about what America did wrong, or how our Mid-East policy in the past, or even in the present, is in any way responsible for the acts of terror being conducted around the world against many different countries.

Did we make mistakes by assisting people that turned out to be, well, animals? Of course, but does anyone think that we are the only ones to ever make a foreign policy error? France in Vietnam, Russians in Afganistan, Belgians in the Congo, **** look at what the Spanish inflicted on the New World.

Nothing can justify the actions of September 11, 2001, nor can those actions ever be forgiven, and I hope that they are never, never, NEVER FORGOTTEN! America and her allies can and must do everything possible to find and bring to justice anyone that commits an act of terror, assists in the planning of an act of terror, or funds/supports an act of terror. Our response should be swift, ruthless, and permanent.

Coalition forces are suffering losses almost every day in Iraq. We've lost 20 from Fort Carson already since the end of "Major Hostilities". 20 too many as far as I'm concerned! I am amazed at the restraint being shown by our troops, I know that it must be difficult to do the job that they are doing without being shot at. But to have the ongoing attacks there, and the Democratic party attacking the Commander in Chief as well back home is pathetic!! Seems that we learned nothing from "The Greatest Generation!"

As for President Bush "begging" for help from the UN, I think that more than anything else he has extended an offer to the UN to assist in the rebuilding effort. I do not think that inviting the UN in at this point is a bad idea at all. A multi-national peace keeping force would go a long way toward improving the conditions for the Iragi people, and that was and is one of the major objectives of the war.

If the UN really wants to be credible again, they need to get involved. If not, they need to be escorted from our shores!