SDA 2B - Need Help Giving My Crossovers Some Love - Capacitors

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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited October 2011
    I have to ask this question because there is conflicting information on the board concerning the RD0198 upgrade.

    For the RDO198 upgrade F1nut states the 5.8uf capacitor must go in hole "h" and the top of "C5":
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?74945-SDA-2B-Crossover-Parts-List
    Post #17

    But then I see where dcmeigs has not done it that way. It seems that his mod has but the 5.8uf cap in the top hole and bottom hole of "C5". He also places his resistor in the "R2" hole and the "C" hole.
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?66784-Photos-of-the-upgrade-for-the-SDA-2Bs&highlight=2BTL
    Post #1

    I would rather do it the way dcmeigs has done it because the soldering is less complicated. It places the 12uf cap partially on the 20uf cap which is fine as long as it is securely in place. This would allow the tweeter inductor to stay put.

    Any thoughts?
    SDA2BTL
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    The way dcmeigs did his, the 5.8uF is not completeing the circuit.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    "completing"
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited October 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    The way dcmeigs did his, the 5.8uF is not completeing the circuit.

    Thats what I wanted to know F1nut. So in moving the inductor over to get to "h" is that something that can done without resoldering the inductor or can you just give it a gentle scoot over?

    Sorry for so many questions but my parts are not here yet and I do not want to keep taking my radiator out to check on these things. Also the better advice I have from people like you and others who know what is going on the better job I will do and have less down time. :biggrin:
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    PreCd wrote: »
    Thats what I wanted to know F1nut. So in moving the inductor over to get to "h" is that something that can done without resoldering the inductor or can you just give it a gentle scoot over?

    There may be some glue over the "H" hole that will have to be removed. You should not have to move the inductor. If you do, a little scoot is all that's needed.

    I sent dcmeigs a PM about his crossovers, haven't heard back from him .
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2011
    Jesse, as dcmeigs did his crossover(s) and not having completed the circuit; would the tweeter (RDO-198) just not sound right? That is, the frequency response of the tweeter would be off?

    I guess what I am asking is what would be the effect of soldering the 5.8uF cap as dcmeigs did?

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    as dcmeigs did his crossover(s) and not having completed the circuit; would the tweeter (RDO-198) just not sound right? That is, the frequency response of the tweeter would be off?
    The end result would be like upgrading the crossovers for use with the RD0194-1, but using the RD0198-1 instead. The frequency response would definitely be off.

    I guess what I am asking is what would be the effect of soldering the 5.8uF cap as dcmeigs did?
    It would have no effect as it's not in the circuit.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited October 2011
    Understood, thanks Jesse.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,804
    edited October 2011
    PreCd wrote: »
    Sorry for so many questions but my parts are not here yet and I do not want to keep taking my radiator out to check on these things. Also the better advice I have from people like you and others who know what is going on the better job I will do and have less down time. :biggrin:

    I'm surely following this so I also mod my 2B's correctly.
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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited October 2011
    F1nut:

    The thread below also has the SDA 2B crossovers with the capacitor wired into the top and bottom "C5" holes. Post #54.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?74945-SDA-2B-Crossover-Parts-List/page2
    SDA2BTL
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    I wonder how many got this wrong? I'm going to pull my xover's and double check :O
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    I just pulled my crossover in my 2BTL's and one of the legs on the 5.8uf is indeed going to the "H" hole. Is this incorrect?
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    Alright, if someone wouldn't mind clearing the air, I took a picture of my 2BTL xover. Is this correct or incorrect?

    I pointed out the 12uf leg because in a few pictures posted in this thread, the leg is actually going into the S-1 position where the polyswitch used to be. I'm a little confused.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24644882/Public%20Photos/2BTL-xover.jpg
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2011
    You guys are getting caught up in what "holes" various Polkies may have used to upgrade, and yes, some of them may have been wrong.

    However, some of those positions are equivalent. If they connect in to the same trace on the bottom side of the circuit board, they modder may be been OK.

    You need to find your schematic, know how to read it, and then get the components routed to meet the schematic's requirements. How you do it is your business.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?55888-POLK-AUDIO-Speaker-Wiring-Schematics-amp-More-Stereo-Dimensional-Array(SDA)
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited October 2011
    SDA%202B%20TL%20Crossover%20Back.jpg

    SDA%202B%20TL%20Crossover.jpg
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2011
    There you have it.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited October 2011
    I guess there is a LOT to learn.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    PreCd wrote: »
    F1nut:

    The thread below also has the SDA 2B crossovers with the capacitor wired into the top and bottom "C5" holes. Post #54.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?74945-SDA-2B-Crossover-Parts-List/page2

    Yeah, that's wrong as well.

    If you look at the bottom of the board, at the bottom hole for C5, you'll see that it is on an island. That is, a trace without any connection to the rest of the board. By simply putting the 5.8uF lead in that hole that cap is not in the circuit. There needs to be a connection over to the section of the board that has the 12uF cap. One way to do it is solder the 5.8uF cap lead into hole "H". Another way is to solder the 5.8uF cap into the bottom of C5 and add a jumper between "E" and "H".
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah, that's wrong as well.

    If you look at the bottom of the board, at the bottom hole for C5, you'll see that it is on an island. That is, a trace without any connection to the rest of the board. By simply putting the 5.8uF lead in that hole that cap is not in the circuit. There needs to be a connection over to the section of the board that has the 12uF cap. One way to do it is solder the 5.8uF cap lead into hole "H". Another way is to solder the 5.8uF cap into the bottom of C5 and add a jumper between "E" and "H".

    They are jumpered properly on the backside. I will be inside the 2B's later this week taking pictures and finalizing the inductor replacement mod and will post a few shots of both sides of the board.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited October 2011
    If you look at the bottom of the board, at the bottom hole for C5, you'll see that it is on an island. That is, a trace without any connection to the rest of the board. By simply putting the 5.8uF lead in that hole that cap is not in the circuit. There needs to be a connection over to the section of the board that has the 12uF cap. One way to do it is solder the 5.8uF cap lead into hole "H". Another way is to solder the 5.8uF cap into the bottom of C5 and add a jumper between "E" and "H".

    This is the kind of information I am looking for F1nut. I cannot remember anyone mentioning that if you put the cap into the "C5" position that you would need to strap "E" and "H".

    How about the 2.7 ohm resistor? I really would rather not piggy back it onto the 5.8 cap if I can get around it.
    SDA2BTL
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    They are jumpered properly on the backside. I will be inside the 2B's later this week taking pictures and finalizing the inductor replacement mod and will post a few shots of both sides of the board.

    Ok good. I wasn't able to tell that from the top only picture.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited October 2011
    PreCd wrote: »
    How about the 2.7 ohm resistor? I really would rather not piggy back it onto the 5.8 cap if I can get around it.

    Ok then, you can run it from "G" to the jumper in R2 or use the original holes, "B" and "G".
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited October 2011
    Ok then, you can run it from "G" to the jumper in R2 or use the original holes, "B" and "G".

    Great! I am feeling better about doing this now. Thank you.
    SDA2BTL
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ok good. I wasn't able to tell that from the top only picture.

    I was just trying to illustrate visually what "piggybacking" was to the OP.

    I just think that sometimes folks get so wrapped up in the spots on the circuit board that they lose site of what's going on from a point-to-point perspective in the actual circuit.

    On the other hand, I agree it's smart to have some consistency from board to board so we can pass information.

    If I had it to do again I probably would not have had Ben do my crossovers the first time as I was the one who ended up adding the jumpers to make them work.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited November 2011
    Ok I have finished the TL2B mod and the speakers are sounding great! I put about 30 hours on them this weekend.

    One problem I did have was oxidation on the solder pads up where the 5.8uf cap went and also where the Mills resistor went. Not so much on the resistor pads but the "C5" and "h" hole would not hardly take the solder. The more I think about it the more I don't like it and am going to yank the crossover of the one speaker this occurred in.

    Any suggestions on how to that pads hungry for the solder besides adding flux? Can I gently clean them with some steel wool?
    SDA2BTL
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,494
    edited November 2011
    Try an electronics/circuit board cleaner.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited November 2011
    Ok the deed is done. Now I need some reassurance that the speakers will sound better when broke in! They sound pretty decent but the highs seem to be between bright and sometimes grainy with about 70 hours on them. I still have to install the Silmic IIs in the preamp to replace the 20+ year old capacitors so when that is done I hope that I have a killer sound.
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
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    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
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