RTI12's from ebay with Yamaha A2000 to start

acid

Hi All, first time caller long time listener

I'm thinking of picking up the RTI12's off of polk ebay and connect them to a Yamaha A2000 to start. I'm going to be running it in two channel mode for a while till i have the cash (and bigger place, 1bedroom condo right now). Is this a good starting off point and then adding on the CSIa6 later on. Would I need an extra amp with just the 2 rit's? (i doubt it but still wanted to check). I just sold my Samsung HTIB and decided to build my own system over the next year or so.

I was thinking of getting the monitor 70's/cs2/psw10/onkyo 609 (again no surrounds as i'm not big on running wires all around and stands etc, but i will get to it once i have the cash and have a need to continue building

Thanks in advance
Sid

deronb1

Where are you located acid?

acid

deronb1 wrote: »

Where are you located acid?

Vancouver BC, next to the border, i order stuff to my cousins in lynwood and then drive them back up. (yes i do declare them and pay duty, even with the duty its 1/3 the price as canada =(

I own and not rent if that makes a difference, so no fines or evictions for turning it up, but being neighbourly i dont........... often

deronb1

I am selling my Rti12s for between 450-500. Probably not worth the drive from BC to Dayton, Oh. Where ever you get them from, you will like them. Beware, they need A LOT of power. I gave them a couple of months, but they are just too "cold" for me. I have had a pair of RTA8ts for over 20 years and its tough to change.

Not to say the 12s dont sound good. It's just different.

acid

thanks for the heads up, i'm going in knowing i'll need to bi-amp later on, i just want to make sure that for the next six months im not shooting myself in the leg. And i think shipping would be at least a couple of hundred bucks if not more, so it will add up. Were you running yours in just 2channel mode or with everything in your signature minus the 209

deronb1

I tried it a number of ways. Just the AVR, then just the amp, then both the AVR running the tops and the Kenwood running the bottoms. The latter seemed to sound best. The three 12s are basically subs, nothing more. The xover is at 120hz and it is a complete split. If you hook up power to just the bottoms, it just "booms", no vocals or anything.

I think that is why using two amps sounds better. Gain is sometimes an issue in bi-amping with two different amps, but in the case of these speakers, the xover alleviates that issue.

jbooker82

You will want at least a Onkyo 709. The 609 doesnt have pre outs to hook an amplifier up. The RX-A2000 does have preouts as well.

acid

thanks for the feedback, and bi-wiring is just a joke right? from what i understand you get no
real benefit and the difference most people see is just a placebo effect.
in a 2channel setup like the one im starting off with would bi-wiring make any difference?

acid

double

acid

jbooker82 wrote: »

You will want at least a Onkyo 709. The 609 doesnt have pre outs to hook an amplifier up. The RX-A2000 does have preouts as well.

i think im going to skip the m70's and go with the rti/a2000 setup
the price is too good from polk ebay

SRTer

acid wrote: »

Hi All, first time caller long time listener

I'm thinking of picking up the RTI12's off of polk ebay and connect them to a Yamaha A2000 to start. I'm going to be running it in two channel mode for a while till i have the cash. Is this a good starting off point and then adding on the CSIa6 later on. Would I need an extra amp with just the 2 rit's? (i doubt it but still wanted to check). I just sold my Samsung HTIB and decided to build my own system over the next year or so.

Sid

The Yamaha Advantage A2000 is a very nice start for your HT. You shouldn't have too much of a problem powering the RTi12's in the 2 channel mode because the A2000 seem to test well in this area. During a Home Theater Mag bench test, the A2000 reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 170.5 watts in two channel.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2000-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

With this being said, I would look into a amp when you get ready to run a full 5.1 or 7.1 system because the power on the A2000 drops plenty as do most AVR's out there.

Until then, you most likely will enjoy the setup. Word to the wise, running this setup near or a reference (0dB) may not be wise as this is the point most people burn up their tweeters due to the AVR amp clipping due to not enough power. I don't think the A2000 will clip and distort on you that fast but I just think it good practice to be careful.

jbooker82

I would recomend the RTI series as well.

acid

Thank you for the feedback, i'll go ahead with the purchase

falconcry72

acid wrote: »

...i'm going in knowing i'll need to bi-amp later on, ...

no.

I think that is why using two amps sounds better. Gain is sometimes an issue in bi-amping with two different amps, but in the case of these speakers, the xover alleviates that issue.

no.

bi-wiring is just a joke right? from what i understand you get no
real benefit and the difference most people see is just a placebo effect.
in a 2channel setup like the one im starting off with would bi-wiring make any difference?

seems like you've answered your own question...

I would look into a amp when you get ready to run a full 5.1 or 7.1 system because the power on the A2000 drops plenty as do most AVR's out there.

yes.

acid

falconcry72 wrote: »

no.

I think i used the wrong term, not bi-amp but add an amp, would that be a yes?

jbooker82

yes adding an external amplifier is a good thing. Bi amping when done right requires 2 amplifers to run one speaker. Some speakers have 2 sets of pos, and neg terminals. The top set goes to the mid range and tweeter, and the bottom set goes to the woofers.

You put an active cross over between your sources and amplifers. You use the active cross over to route the high frequencys to the top half of the speaker and the low frequencys to the bottom half. That way your not sending amplified low frequencys in to the mid and tweeter, and your not sending amplified high frequencies in to the woofers. If your not using an active cross over and multiple external amplifiers it isnt worth it.

Bi Wiring is when you use 2 sets of speaker wire to one speaker. There are two types. Double bi wires which is equivelant to running double wires from the amplifier / reciever to the speaker. One set to the top, one set to the bottom. 4 conections on both ends. The other type is Single Bi Wire. This is like running a single wire from the Amplifier / AVR to the speaker, but on the other end it has 2 sets of wires (2 conections on one end, and 4 on the other). It pretty much allows you to remove the jumper plates between the bottom and top terminals with out having to make seperate short jumper wires.

acid

jbooker82 wrote: »

yes adding an external amplifier is a good thing. Bi amping when done right requires 2 amplifers to run one speaker. Some speakers have 2 sets of pos, and neg terminals. The top set goes to the mid range and tweeter, and the bottom set goes to the woofers.

You put an active cross over between your sources and amplifers. You use the active cross over to route the high frequencys to the top half of the speaker and the low frequencys to the bottom half. That way your not sending amplified low frequencys in to the mid and tweeter, and your not sending amplified high frequencies in to the woofers. If your not using an active cross over and multiple external amplifiers it isnt worth it.

Bi Wiring is when you use 2 sets of speaker wire to one speaker. There are two types. Double bi wires which is equivelant to running double wires from the amplifier / reciever to the speaker. One set to the top, one set to the bottom. 4 conections on both ends. The other type is Single Bi Wire. This is like running a single wire from the Amplifier / AVR to the speaker, but on the other end it has 2 sets of wires (2 conections on one end, and 4 on the other). It pretty much allows you to remove the jumper plates between the bottom and top terminals with out having to make seperate short jumper wires.

And the benefit of bi-wiring would be most effective in 2channel setup?

acid

SRTer wrote: »

The Yamaha Advantage A2000 is a very nice start for your HT. You shouldn't have too much of a problem powering the RTi12's in the 2 channel mode because the A2000 seem to test well in this area. During a Home Theater Mag bench test, the A2000 reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 170.5 watts in two channel.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2000-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

With this being said, I would look into a amp when you get ready to run a full 5.1 or 7.1 system because the power on the A2000 drops plenty as do most AVR's out there.

Until then, you most likely will enjoy the setup. Word to the wise, running this setup near or a reference (0dB) may not be wise as this is the point most people burn up their tweeters due to the AVR amp clipping due to not enough power. I don't think the A2000 will clip and distort on you that fast but I just think it good practice to be careful.

would you be able to recommend an amp?

acid

i'm thinking if im going to spend 800 on an avr and then another 400-600 for an amp, maybe i should get a lower cost avr?
any suggestions on what a good avr/amp setup would be, for rti12's to start and then an a6 down the road and a sub later on

jbooker82

acid wrote: »

And the benefit of bi-wiring would be most effective in 2channel setup?

The real bennifit comes from removing the brass / metal jumper straps. What they do is connect the + terminals together and the - terminals together.

If you remove the jumpers you pretty much use wire to reconect the two. You end up with 6 connections being made on the back of each speaker. Where if you used a single bi wire cable you would just have 4 banana plugs to plug in.

jbooker82

acid wrote: »

i'm thinking if im going to spend 800 on an avr and then another 400-600 for an amp, maybe i should get a lower cost avr?
any suggestions on what a good avr/amp setup would be, for rti12's to start and then an a6 down the road and a sub later on

Well you want at least a 3 channel amplifier. That way the Left, Center, Right speakers are powered by the same source. You can add a 2 channel amp for the surrounds or just run them off the AVR. Or you can get a 5 channel amplifier and run all 5 from the same source.

Parasound would be a good choice since they are on the warm side. It helps off set the RTI's tendency to be bright. Carver is another warm sounding amplifer.

As for AVR's you need one that at least has pre outs. If your steping down the food chain you will also loose other features besides the wattage rating.

I have never ran a yamaha reciever but considered running one. I run an Onkyo. They are a pretty good pice of equipment. The TX-NRxx8's have had a bad cable problem. The ribon cable that goes to the front pannel goes bad and causes the front buttons to be non responsive, and a non responsive remote. Cycling surround modes is another side affect. Onkyo has come out with a press release saying it is a known probelm and it will be fixed regardless of warrenty status.

That being said I would buy another Onkyo. Pioneer is another good avr mfg. They are pretty popular on here for their ICE Amplifer, but if you plan on going external amplification what is the point?

I am not trying to talk you out of your yamaha A2000, but you can get a Onkyo TX-NR709 $499 from accessories 4 less. It is a mfg referbished unit but you can add on a 5 year warrenty for 50 bucks where a bran new one only comes with a 2 year warrenty.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR709/Onkyo-TX-NR709-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Or the 2010 model for $369
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR708/Onkyo-TX-NR708-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

You can get the TX-NR809 for $679
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR809/Onkyo-TX-NR809-7.2-Channel-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Or the 2010 model TX-NR808 for $499
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR808/Onkyo-TX-NR808-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

There has been some talk that the first runs of the TX-NR709's might have the same faulty ribon cable as well.

Good Old lucky number 666:evil:

acid

jbooker82 wrote: »

Well you want at least a 3 channel amplifier. That way the Left, Center, Right speakers are powered by the same source. You can add a 2 channel amp for the surrounds or just run them off the AVR. Or you can get a 5 channel amplifier and run all 5 from the same source.

Parasound would be a good choice since they are on the warm side. It helps off set the RTI's tendency to be bright. Carver is another warm sounding amplifer.

As for AVR's you need one that at least has pre outs. If your steping down the food chain you will also loose other features besides the wattage rating.

I have never ran a yamaha reciever but considered running one. I run an Onkyo. They are a pretty good pice of equipment. The TX-NRxx8's have had a bad cable problem. The ribon cable that goes to the front pannel goes bad and causes the front buttons to be non responsive, and a non responsive remote. Cycling surround modes is another side affect. Onkyo has come out with a press release saying it is a known probelm and it will be fixed regardless of warrenty status.

That being said I would buy another Onkyo. Pioneer is another good avr mfg. They are pretty popular on here for their ICE Amplifer, but if you plan on going external amplification what is the point?

I am not trying to talk you out of your yamaha A2000, but you can get a Onkyo TX-NR709 $499 from accessories 4 less. It is a mfg referbished unit but you can add on a 5 year warrenty for 50 bucks where a bran new one only comes with a 2 year warrenty.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR709/Onkyo-TX-NR709-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Or the 2010 model for $369
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR708/Onkyo-TX-NR708-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

You can get the TX-NR809 for $679
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR809/Onkyo-TX-NR809-7.2-Channel-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

Or the 2010 model TX-NR808 for $499
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR808/Onkyo-TX-NR808-7.2-Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

There has been some talk that the first runs of the TX-NR709's might have the same faulty ribon cable as well.

Good Old lucky number 666:evil:

Thanks for the help, i think i'll go with 708, i've been looking for 5 channel amps carver and parasound
and was wondering what wattage i should be looking for

acid

how does the 708 with emovita x3 sound? by sound i mean, the combo not the actual acoustic sound

acid

or the 708 with the xpa5 and the lsi15's?

jbooker82

I would probalby go with the 709 over the 708. If I was going to be steping down from my current 808 I would at least want the current or newer modle. It does have a few better features than the older xx8's. Like 4k upscaling, and the option to buy a little wirelss usb module. If you get a TX-NRxx8 it will have to have a cat 5 conection for the network features. If you were going to get a xx8 I would at least get the TX-NR808.

If you go to Onkyo's web page you can still do a side by side compairison between the older modles and the newer ones to see which features matter to you.

Alot of guys run emotiva and like it. Alot of guys like to bash on emotiva. I havent ever ran one. I dont know what their prices are but if the XPA3 was only a around $100 bucks or so cheaper I would just go for the XPA5. They are both rated at 200 WPC so it would be kind of point less to restrict your self to a 3 channel setup when you could get a 5 channel for a little bit more. Or I guess your other option would be an XPA3 for now then later on upgrade to a XPA2 for the L&R towers and use the XPA 3 for the center, and L&R surrounds.

That is kind of what my plan is. Later on I would like to find a carver A-760x (380 wpc x 2) to power my RTI A7's and use my A-753x (250 wpc x 3) to drive the center and surrounds.

You dont have to have an amp right away. Just leave your self the option to be able to.

jbooker82

If your wanting a good deal on a good sub check out new egg. They have the DSW Pro xxxWI's on sale.

The DSW Pro 660WI is $349
The DSW Pro 550WI is $299
The DSW Pro 440WI is $249

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008225%2050012345%20600030003&IsNodeId=1&name=Polk%20Audio

I would at least go with the 550WI (10") sub, if not the 660WI (12")sub. They usually have them on sale every other weekend. They are way better than the PSW's

Plus they can be ran wireless. You have to by an extra wireless kit but you at least have the option. The WI wireless subs aslo have 2x the power as the Regular DSW Pro series.

acid

jbooker82 wrote: »

If your wanting a good deal on a good sub check out new egg. They have the DSW Pro xxxWI's on sale.

The DSW Pro 660WI is $349
The DSW Pro 550WI is $299
The DSW Pro 440WI is $249

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008225%2050012345%20600030003&IsNodeId=1&name=Polk%20Audio

I would at least go with the 550WI (10") sub, if not the 660WI (12")sub. They usually have them on sale every other weekend. They are way better than the PSW's

Plus they can be ran wireless. You have to by an extra wireless kit but you at least have the option. The WI wireless subs aslo have 2x the power as the Regular DSW Pro series.

I see your point in upgrading, but now i was looking at the lsi15's and was thinking of going that route with the xpa-5 and then the lsic later.
as for wirelss, im not a fan, there is so much blasted interference in this high rise its absurd, so prefer wired connections and have my placed wired for it. and since there are no 4k tv's out now and i never know if i will be getting one.. do you think anything higher than the 708 is still worth it?

if i go the route of 708/xpa5/lsi15 it will be some time before i get my center and sub.
or am i going too far now? i can afford the pricing and would rather get the best bare minimum i need/can

my other stuff is a 56 led tv, shaw pvr (comcase 6412 equivalent), google tv (logitech revue) home theatre pc
currently its pvr to google box to avr to tv, hdmi and toslink from each box to the next.
home theatre pc is also hdmi/toslink to avr (or will be)
there is an 8 port lan switch behind the tv so wired connection would be easiest/stable/fastest etc.
but the wireless sub looks promising but do you know if rotuers interfere? as there are over 40 that are in range and wreak havoc on my 2.4 and 5 ghz channels

acid

jbooker82 wrote: »

The real bennifit comes from removing the brass / metal jumper straps. What they do is connect the + terminals together and the - terminals together.

If you remove the jumpers you pretty much use wire to reconect the two. You end up with 6 connections being made on the back of each speaker. Where if you used a single bi wire cable you would just have 4 banana plugs to plug in.

and can i use 14 gauge wire to replace the gold bridge? or double up on the 14 gauge? (i have lots of 14 gauge)
and can i use my gold plated component cables as preout cables?

if i was to bi-wire, would i have 4 runs from the xpa-5 amp to the two speakers? two going to FR and two to FL, with one left over for future use? and would i run the preouts from the v667 to the xpa from the v667 FR FL SR SL

do the surrounds need to be set as bi-wired on the avr/v667?

and would it be better to run the all 4 runs from the xpa amp or run two from xpa amp and two from the avr itself? (the highs from avr and lows from xpa?)

many questions i know, sorry in advance

jbooker82

acid wrote: »

and can i use 14 gauge wire to replace the gold bridge? or double up on the 14 gauge? (i have lots of 14 gauge)

Yes that is the most common way to eliminate the gold bridge. Just ordinary speaker wire. You can put them under the nuts and screw them down tight. Then from your amplifier to the speaker just run a single set of wires to the speaker. You just replace the bridge with a short pice of speaker wire.

You end up with 6 conections on the back. 4 for replacing the bridges, and 2 for the amp to speaker conections.

jbooker82

acid wrote: »

if i was to bi-wire, would i have 4 runs from the xpa-5 amp to the two speakers? two going to FR and two to FL, with one left over for future use? and would i run the preouts from the v667 to the xpa from the v667 FR FL SR SL

That would be bi amping but insead of using individual mono block amps your using 4 channles from a single 5 channel amp. It really isnt worth it unless you put an active cross over inbetween your AVR and Amplifier. That way you dont send amplified low freq in to the mid range and tweeter and so you dont amplify and send high freq in to the woofer sections. With no active cross over your sending a full range frequencys in to the amp and then in to each section. Where if you had one you would only be sending the lows to the woofers and highs to the mid and tweeter.

Bi Wiring is when your run 2 sets of wires from one set of terminals on the amp and make 4 connections on the back of the speaker. You would only be using one amplifier channel per speaker, just doubling up on the wires. So with an XPA 5 you only use 2 channels to bi wire and would have 3 left over.

You can buy or make Single bi wire speaker cables. They have 2 banana plugs (one POS, and one NEG) on one end and 4 on the other (two POS, and two NEG). That way you only have one speaker wire runing to one speaker. It is pretty much just haveing a Y on one end of your speaker cables. That way in order to eliminate the gold jumpers you dont have to have the short pice of speaker wire conecting the two POS, and two Neg terminals.

jbooker82

acid wrote: »

#1. do the surrounds need to be set as bi-wired on the avr/v667?

#2. and would it be better to run the all 4 runs from the xpa amp or run two from xpa amp and two from the avr itself? (the highs from avr and lows from xpa?)

#1 no just hook them up normally.

#2. I would run the entire speaker off the Amplifer, not the top half off the AVR and the bottom half off the amplifier. Otherwise your going to be sevierly underpowering the mid and tweeter when compaired to the woofers.

Biamping has no purpose other than runing an active xo between the avr(source) and amplifer. Your not going to be running 400 watts in each speaker if you use 2 amplifier channels to run one speaker. Watts do not add up.