SDA 2B or 1C
gmcman
Posts: 1,806
First of all, thanks to everyone assisting me on the insanity of choosing a pair of SDA's :biggrin: I'm trying to do as much research as possible on these and it seems that it ends up being somewhat application specific, which is why i'm deviating from my other threads and narrowing down my choices.
What sticks in my head is having fewer drivers can help in a sound quality standpoint, and this is the basis of my post.
My room is rectangular and dimensionally is 13x28, of course both of these speakers will work. I understand the 1C will yield bigger sound, but having not ever heard a pair of 1C's, can anyone who has played with both of these say that the 2B is a cleaner sound or not?
Both of these will have refreshed x-overs and end up with tweeter upgrades.....likely the 2B will be TL'd and the 1C will just get the x-over mod and 194's.
Looking at other high-end speakers, it seems there as few drivers as possible but not always, and this is where I would like to be educated. Are the more drivers designed to fill larger rooms more easily with a slight degregation in SQ or does it come down to critical driver placement like in the 1C and up SDA's and they are just as clean as the rest, or more?
Has anyone who owns both ever said "The 1C's play louder but the B's are more accurate?
One side of me wants the 1C because it's the 1C and it just rocks, the other part wants the 2B because it's simpler and for my size room will be easier to listen to.
Again, thanks for putting up with me on this...I promise i'll get a pair soon.:cool:
What sticks in my head is having fewer drivers can help in a sound quality standpoint, and this is the basis of my post.
My room is rectangular and dimensionally is 13x28, of course both of these speakers will work. I understand the 1C will yield bigger sound, but having not ever heard a pair of 1C's, can anyone who has played with both of these say that the 2B is a cleaner sound or not?
Both of these will have refreshed x-overs and end up with tweeter upgrades.....likely the 2B will be TL'd and the 1C will just get the x-over mod and 194's.
Looking at other high-end speakers, it seems there as few drivers as possible but not always, and this is where I would like to be educated. Are the more drivers designed to fill larger rooms more easily with a slight degregation in SQ or does it come down to critical driver placement like in the 1C and up SDA's and they are just as clean as the rest, or more?
Has anyone who owns both ever said "The 1C's play louder but the B's are more accurate?
One side of me wants the 1C because it's the 1C and it just rocks, the other part wants the 2B because it's simpler and for my size room will be easier to listen to.
Again, thanks for putting up with me on this...I promise i'll get a pair soon.:cool:
Post edited by gmcman on
Comments
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When I heard the 1c's and 2b's back to back i preferred the 2b's. IMO they were more musical. The 1c's were definitely bolder but they felt a little bloated in comparison. As I purchasedmore pairs of SDA's I came to realize I preferred the the ones with the fewest drivers. I never did hear a pair of refurbished srs2's, but the 2b's were my favorite non-SRS model. And being able to TL them is a definite plus. just one man's opinion. I know there are some here that think the 1C's are better, but i think it has to do with bass extension. 2b's and a pair of subs would be ideal in my mind.design is where science and art break even.
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2B's, TL'd and fully modded.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
2B's, TL'd and fully modded.
The simplicity of the 2B produces some of the purest sound you can get, and in my opinion, don't muck it up with subs.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
The classic quandary......2B or not 2B ! Buy one pair of each model that interests you.........problem solved !
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inspiredsports wrote: »The simplicity of the 2B produces some of the purest sound you can get, and in my opinion, don't muck it up with subs.
I agree, fully modded 2BTL's driven with a man's amp do not need a sub.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
1C's and proper gear.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
They are both GREAT!!! especially modded !!!!
I refuse to choose as you can't go WRONG with either one.. -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »They are both GREAT!!! especially modded !!!!
I refuse to choose as you can't go WRONG with either one..
Truth.:cool:
I own both and love both. Neither is modded, but they both have RD0-194's.
I like the 1C's better. I think that they sound more refined than the 2B's, which is the opposite of your hypothesis. I believe that this is true because they don't just have more drivers/tweeters, the extra drivers/tweeters are crossed over differently, so each driver/tweeter has a smaller frequency band to reproduce. In my system, this results in an increase in both high frequency and low frequency extension.
I can't give any input on the 2BTL because I've never heard'em.
Good luck; you can't go wrong!:biggrin:2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
double post, sorry.:redface:2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
Your concern is valid, but you cannot go wrong with either. I have not heard the 2B's but I've had the 2A's for the last couple of years until this week when I picked up a pair of modded 1C's in mint condition. All I can say is I will probably never sell the 1C's unless I have to, they are simply amazing.
I wouldn't use a sub either but thats just me. -
If one has to add a sub in a two channel SDA set-up then that one should be looking at the gear powering the SDA's but thats just me!!!
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TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »If one has to add a sub in a two channel SDA set-up then that one should be looking at the gear powering the SDA's but thats just me!!!
if the lower f3 response of your speaker is 40Hz, no amount of gear is going to change that outside of DSP and active xover. You need a subwoofer to augment the full frequency. Subwoofer is not a dirty word. as we've discussed, many of the best systems in the world employ subwoofers.design is where science and art break even. -
I prefer 2B's, but in that sized room, you will probably be better off with 1C's."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I would say 1C's as well in a room like that.
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if the lower f3 response of your speaker is 40Hz, no amount of gear is going to change that outside of DSP and active xover. You need a subwoofer to augment the full frequency. Subwoofer is not a dirty word. as we've discussed, many of the best systems in the world employ subwoofers.
Yes I agree but I did say thats just me.. And you know as well not all gear is going to give the SDA's what they need to shine in the low end department. -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »And you know as well not all gear is going to give the SDA's what they need to shine in the low end department.
My 2B's and 1C's both have excellent bass extension, but there is no amp in the world that will make them flat to 20hz. If you have an auditory need to be flat to 20hz or lower, then you need subs. Period.
I definitely agree with Larry about giving them good power. It's better to give them the power they need to shine and not use a sub than it is to under-power them and "make up for it" with a sub.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
According to the Stereo Review lab tests, 1C's (unmodded, obviously) had on overall freq response +/- 5dB 20Hz-18kHz,
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I have had plenty of people come over and are shocked when I tell them I don't have a sub anywhere in the room I have also had a few trying to talk me into adding a sub. It's just not going to happen in my 2 channel rig + I am not excited about daisy chaining everything also I don't feel or see that I need it!!
Just not feeling it.. -
at low volumes, my 2b's have bass but it's 'shy'....as you lean on the throttle, the bass comes out of hiding..these are great speakers because, it seems like there is no bump anywhere in the frequency range...past 9 o'clock on the volume is when the bass start getting active...at 10 i wonder if my ht sub is running...i don't think the sub's bass notes would be as clean, though
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I wonder where the 1.2tl's rate?? I bet DK knows and has posted it I just don't remember off the top of my head..
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TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »I wonder where the 1.2tl's rate?? I bet DK knows and has posted it I just don't remember off the top of my head..
1985 SRS's are +/- 4.5dB 20Hz - 20kHz according to the same publication. Just goes to show you "raw" numbers don't mean squat because there is an obvious difference in impact with SRS vs. 1C
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Yes there is a difference in impact I love my 1C's but my 1.2tl's kill it with the impact.. I am looking forward to doing the inductor upgrade in my 1C's I just need to pull them out and get it done, I am curious as what I will find in them with it as I don't even want to touch my 1.2tl's anymore as I am very pleased as what they are doing now and to be honest I think they are as upgraded as they ever can be..
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According to the Stereo Review lab tests, 1C's (unmodded, obviously) had on overall freq response +/- 5dB 20Hz-18kHz,
H9
In my room with my gear, my 1C's are only flat to the low 30's. They can't even reproduce sounds in the low 20's.
That said I don't use a sub with them and don't want to.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
At this point I have so much nice, deep, extended, solid bass with my 1C's I won't change the inductors. It is simply amazing the heft and extension I get from the 1C's thanks to the right gear and cables. Adding the MIT Shotguns really made a difference in tone and impact with regards to the bass response. Tightened it up a bit and really seemed to extend it too. The tubes help a lot also. I was running my system tubeless for awhile and a good portion of the "soul" was missing compared to using tubes. Not that it sounded poor at all, just not the same as with tubes.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
2B's, TL'd and fully modded.
That's what I said in his other thread. 2B's TL'd are the way to go. :twisted: -
Nevermind, read it quickly and totally took the response out of context.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
falconcry72 wrote: »Truth.:cool:
I believe that this is true because they don't just have more drivers/tweeters, the extra drivers/tweeters are crossed over differently, so each driver/tweeter has a smaller frequency band to reproduce.
So you're saying the 2 stereo and mids and each tweet are crossed differently? This would definitely change my way of thinking
I thought they were fed the same frequencies. -
So you're saying the 2 stereo and mids and each tweet are crossed differently?
Yes, that's true
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
falconcry72 wrote: »
I own both and love both. Neither is modded, but they both have RD0-194's.
Unmodified, I can understand why you'd prefer the 1C's.I like the 1C's better. I think that they sound more refined than the 2B's, which is the opposite of your hypothesis. I believe that this is true because they don't just have more drivers/tweeters, the extra drivers/tweeters are crossed over differently, so each driver/tweeter has a smaller frequency band to reproduce. In my system, this results in an increase in both high frequency and low frequency extension.
That is incorrect. While true that the 1C's tweeters use a progessive point source, the mid-drivers are not crossed over differently other than two are stereo and two are dimensional.I can't give any input on the 2BTL because I've never heard'em.
Therein lies the rub, I have.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I've owned both. I've modded both. I've listened to both with a beefy Krell amp. The fact of the matter is, you'll be happy with either one. The 1C has a beefier "presence." It's a larger speaker, with more drivers, it sounds bigger with a bit more "oomph." But when I say a bit, I mean a bit. The 2B's, when TL'ed and modded to the hilt, are simply beautiful sounding speakers. But so are the 1C's, although they're not TL-able. At the end of the day, either one is going to put a smile on your face. Go find either one - focus on cabinets that are in good condition, working drivers, good grills, perfect passive radiators (the hardest part to replace), at a good price and close to where you are located. I wouldn't worry about which one it is that you find, you'll be happy with either one.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
