Time to retire the DLP from the HT

Gadabout

Well, after many satisfied years with the Samsung DLP, it's time for it to move out of the Home Theater / Living Room. Yesterday, I pulled the trigger on the Panasonic TC-P60GT30. I was originally going to get the same size but the S30 model (no 3D). I got a chance to look at both and a patient sales person let me put in some view settings from the web and tweak them a bit. There was a difference between the 2 images.

I also got a look at the 55" VT30 (they don't make a 60" VT series only 65" and it is $4K) and the image was a bit better yet. However, I couldn't justify the extra $400 and dropping down to a 55" for the VT.

By going 3D this also brought up a couple other dilemmas.

- First, my AVR that is being used as a Pre/Pro isn't HDMI 1.4 compliant. Meaning, I couldn't run the Blu Ray Player through the AVR and then to the TV (nor could I use the audio return channel from the TV). I was going to have to upgrade the blu ray player anyway for 3D and it looks like the manufacturers have actually thought about folks with Legacy equipment. They offer BluRay players with 2 HDMI outs. One out goes to the TV of course and the other to the AVR. You can designate which one has the video signal and which one has the audio signal. I decided to get the Panasonic DMP-BDT310.

- The second dilemma was the 3D viewing distance. The active shutter glasses are only guaranteed to 10.5 ft. My viewing distance is about 12 feet. The solution was found by getting an extending wall mount. The mount will extend 2 ft and should bring everything into the proper distance without having to move the furniture too much. I'll probably only extend it when viewing 3D content.

Another couple of notes I'll pass on while I was doing my research.

- The panny glasses are damn expensive (around $100/pr). You have to buy the glasses that work with your TV. (Samsung has cheaper glasses that can be used on their TV's.) They are also out of stock everywhere. So, since I was in a bit of a buying mood and I didn't want to wait, I bought the ultimate starter pack that includes the release of Avatar 3D (I think it is a panny exclusive)

- If your going to use a lot of other cables (Optical out, composite video etc... )from the TV, Panasonic makes you buy adapters. Page 11 in their user manual - TC-P60GT30 User Manual

- The mount holes for the this TV are not Vesa standard. They were odd enough that it eliminated a some of the mount choices. This one happens to be 300mm X 500mm. One good thing is I found a great little web site to check the mount patterns for your particular TV. - WhatIsVESA.com.

- Don't forget to check the version of your HDMI cables. You'll need v1.4 or higher for 3D.

So, more than a few hours of research and comparisons (I didn't mind as there was a woot off going on), and $2500 later, ..... a new big plasma is on the way to the house. Looking forward to setting it up and seeing what it can do.

Scott

PS I still can't believe you can get that big a TV, with a great picture, for under $2K

EndersShadow

hehehe, I am just going to quote your post myself here in about another 4 months or so. My wife and I are looking to move from my 56" DLP to either the S30, ST30, or GT30 60" screen.

Could you possibly go into more detail about the differences you saw with regard to those two (S30 & GT30). I am obviously very interested. Also curious as to how the glare is on it if you have any windows in the viewing room. My DLP's off axis angles sucked and the washout from glare was bad too, so curious as to how big an improvement that was.

leadfoot1

I think those Avatar 3D blu rays go for some pretty nice coin on Ebay if you wanted to recoup some of your $$. Do a quick search there are some of them that are over $100 with time left in the auctions (not buy it now)

Gadabout

EndersShadow wrote: »

hehehe, I am just going to quote your post myself here in about another 4 months or so. My wife and I are looking to move from my 56" DLP to either the S30, ST30, or GT30 60" screen.

Could you possibly go into more detail about the differences you saw with regard to those two (S30 & GT30). I am obviously very interested. Also curious as to how the glare is on it if you have any windows in the viewing room. My DLP's off axis angles sucked and the washout from glare was bad too, so curious as to how big an improvement that was.

The main difference between the S30 and GT30 was black levels and sharper edges on everything. When you get to the store to look at them, your wife will prefer the looks of the GT30. It looks sleeker and more refined. The S30 I think is still in 2010's skin.

The ST, GT & VT series also offer 1080p/24 processing. I didn't get a chance to play with this, but based on reviews it was another major reasons I decided to spend the extra $'s and not get the "S" model. Just as a note, the ST & GT do this at 60hz, the VT does it at 96hz.

The VT30, had the best blacks and also they had modernized the way the TV looked (mainly an overlying piece of corner to corner glass that makes it look sleeker).

My house is pretty dark. Mainly because there is no one to tell me to open the drapes. I prefer it dark. Once I get the TV installed, I'll open up all the drapes and see how it does in brighter light. See if there are any hot spots. (There is never any direct sunlight into this room as it is on the North side of the house).

While your out there looking, check the Samsung's too. They are supposed to be a bit better for reflections and hot spots than the Panasonic's. Of course, if the Samsungs look washed out compared to the Panny's in bright light thats a whole other deal.

As a side note, I also wished I could have seen an ST30 just to compare it to the GT30 and see if extra $500 was worth it for the GT model. I rarely buy the top of the line when buying electronics. I usually buy a step or two down and have been satisfied with my choices with no regrets when doing that. If I buy the bottom of the line I almost always wish I would have upgraded. If I buy the top of the line I usually **** about the extra cost and not getting that much more for the $'s spent.

I'll post back here when I get everything setup and update the System Showcase. If that didn't help much, shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can give more detail for your questions.

Scott

jon s

I have a GT myself. The GT series ups the 24Hz blu-ray signal to 48Hz, which means bad flicker when used in teh 24Hz mode... The higher models ups the refresh rate to 96Hz to eliminate it. Set it to 60Hz and you won't have the flicker issue but may have a slight judder whne panning. The panels on the GT series are not as good as the higher models, less contrast, not much less but noticeable. Also, all of the Panasonic plasmas have very low light output, which means 3D content appears quite dark.

There is an issue when sharpness on the Panasonic is set higher than 20. The colors tend to shift a bit to red. Since the panel is so sharp, you can just lower the sharpness level to avoid this problem.

Don't worry about the range of the 3D glasses, I use mine at 15 ft with no issues.

EndersShadow

Gadabout wrote: »

If that didn't help much, shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can give more detail for your questions.

Scott

That helped immensely. She liked the S30 of the ones we looked at quickly (which I dont think we looked at the GT30 OR VT30), AND they were side by side w/ the Samsungs. HOWEVER I didnt tweak ANY settings since we actually stopped in to look at PJ's lol.....

EndersShadow

jon s wrote: »

I have a GT myself. The GT series ups the 24Hz blu-ray signal to 48Hz, which means bad flicker when used in teh 24Hz mode... The higher models ups the refresh rate to 96Hz to eliminate it. Set it to 60Hz and you won't have the flicker issue but may have a slight judder whne panning. The panels on the GT series are not as good as the higher models, less contrast, not much less but noticeable. Also, all of the Panasonic plasmas have very low light output, which means 3D content appears quite dark.

There is an issue when sharpness on the Panasonic is set higher than 20. The colors tend to shift a bit to red. Since the panel is so sharp, you can just lower the sharpness level to avoid this problem.

Don't worry about the range of the 3D glasses, I use mine at 15 ft with no issues.

Thats very good info. Personally I plan on setting it to 60hz. I have had nothing but problems with anything else when playing Xbox (my dads 120 hz has horrible motion blur). 3d isnt something we really care about, I just know the 3d screens are supposed to be better w/ glare than the 2d models. That and most 60" are by default now 3d.

leroyjr1

Amazon had the VT30's pretty cheap a week or two ago $1800 for the 55vt30 and $2900 for the 65vt30. Just went with a
Panasonic myself and love it.

Tony M

Congrats on that great, great research and then purchases.

Just think , 12, or a little more, years ago, a 50" plasma was 15,000.00. I was dreaming and in awe. Now I have one and don't even watch it very often.....

But when I do, I'm in awe all over again every time..Beautiful Panny picture.

I still can't believe I have one of the best surround systems a guy could ask for also.

Glowrdr

I picked up a VT20 (Best Buys version of the VT25). Loving it compared to my Hitachi Ultravision DLP. I checked the manual that you posted, and I guess I'm a little confused as to what those adaptors are for. It looks like you should be able to hook everything up just fine - but that they might be some sort of conversion adaptors? Almost looks like some of those go from RCA to 1/8". I almost thought that the TV had 2 1/8" jacks on the back specifically for the adaptors, but I think it's just a poor rendition of the B&W drawing of the jacks on the back of the TV. I wouldn't worry too much about it I guess until it gets to your house. Your probably fine.

I picked mine up from BB during one of their bundle sales. I got the TV, the Avatar bundle, and a Panny BD for somewhere around $1800. I sold the BDP before I even got home to a buddy of mine for $250. As someone else mentioned - Avatar can fetch a pretty penny on ebay. The movie itself isn't propriatary, but they force you to buy a Panny bundle of glasses that wont work with anything else. I did have an issue with flickering on my first set, so I had to bring it back. Oops... forgot to put the glasses in the box. So now I've got 5 pairs (bought 1 when I bought the TV so we could have another couple over for movie night if we wanted)

Long story over - Enjoy your new TV!

Gadabout

Checking street prices, it looks like this is the lowest price of the year. I looked at some of the other places that had lower prices than amazon, but none of them (that I looked at) allowed returns with in the first 30 days. That being said, I might have bought too early for the best price. Everyone seems to be running the Panny promotion which ends Oct 15 (extended from Sep 30). I expect there to be some good sales on Black Friday and then after the first of the year. I just didn't want the hassle of dealing with Christmas time deliveries and I'm to impatient to wait till after the new year.

I forgot to mention in my other posts the other reason for mounting the TV is I have to move my Center channel (CSi 5). It currently resides on top of the DLP using an Omnimount component shelf. No way this works with the new TV. Short of buying a new rack, a wall mount was really the only way to put the center where it should go. It's now going on the top shelf of the rack. What are you guys using for Isolation feet on center channel speakers?

Scott

Glowrdr

I've got everything on a glass "Z" shelf (TV stand / Audio stand seperates). I'm actually using the little rubber feet that came with my CS20 center. Works well because the center has welded itself to the glass. lol

Eventually when I have a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket I'd like to get into a Salamander setup. Until then, I'll live with what I've got.

EndersShadow

Gadabout wrote: »

What are you guys using for Isolation feet on center channel speakers?

Scott

I am using industrial sized rubber stoppers for beakers and test tubes (my dad is a chemist so I get them for free). If you want I can check if he has any more. They look a bit fugly (since they are industrial) but I use them on most of my gear (pics are around here somewhere)

I know a bunch of folks like to use AVRISERS. The guy is on the Carver forum and has a website here: http://avrisers.com/default.aspx

Pic of my rack with stoppers (look @ the 360 and Uverse DVR):

polkfarmboy

Flat screens suck ... projectors rule!!!!! lol

That panny is nice though and I should have went that route instead of buying an **** sucking 3d LG but not to worry as I'm sure I will buy a 3d pj this year

EndersShadow

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Flat screens suck ... projectors rule!!!!! lol

That panny is nice though and I should have went that route instead of buying an **** sucking 3d LG but not to worry as I'm sure I will buy a 3d pj this year

They only rule if you dont end up rebuying multiple screens because you break them. Hopefully you dont break your new pj either.

That and oh, in ambient light they dont do the best so they are not a end all be all.....

Gadabout

EndersShadow wrote: »

I know a bunch of folks like to use AVRISERS. The guy is on the Carver forum and has a website here: http://avrisers.com/default.aspx

Thats a good use for stoppers. I know where I can order some online. I was also just thinking to myself last night, "What was the name of that component riser place Russman asked about a few years back?". Today I wake up and there is an answer to my question that I only asked myself. Thanks for the link. (I love this place ;-). I bookmarked it this time.

Did you felt the stoppers or anything? Do they stick to the component or leave rings? It certainly would be cheaper than using Vibrapods or Bright Star's IsoNodes (I am going to try a few sets of the Vibrapods and Isonodes in the 2 channels system and see if they work as advertised)

Thanks,
Scott

Gadabout

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Flat screens suck ... projectors rule!!!!! lol

That panny is nice though and I should have went that route instead of buying an **** sucking 3d LG but not to worry as I'm sure I will buy a 3d pj this year

I thought about projector, but dismissed the idea pretty quickly. If I had a HT room were I could control all the light, I would probably have considered it longer. The other reason I shunned the idea, for now, is the black levels on a projector aren't anywhere close to what can be achieved with a good TV.

Scott

EndersShadow

Gadabout wrote: »

Thats a good use for stoppers. I know where I can order some online. I was also just thinking to myself last night, "What was the name of that component riser place Russman asked about a few years back?". Today I wake up and there is an answer to my question that I only asked myself. Thanks for the link. (I love this place ;-). I bookmarked it this time.

Did you felt the stoppers or anything? Do they stick to the component or leave rings? It certainly would be cheaper than using Vibrapods or Bright Star's IsoNodes (I am going to try a few sets of the Vibrapods and Isonodes in the 2 channels system and see if they work as advertised)

Thanks,
Scott

I personally dont use felt on them. My components dont normally get hot enough to melt them since I place them underneath the existing feet just as additional spacers. If they were contacting warm/hot metal directly (like an amp chassis) I might think about adding felt to the part that might melt. Mostly its just I am too lazy to do it lol.

As it stands right now they havent left any marks on my entertainment center shelves (which are tempered glass) or the components at all.

Also some folks use these as well for spacers: Bench cookies, but I dont know how they handle vibration. The rubber stoppers might help more.

bsoko2

- Don't forget to check the version of your HDMI cables. You'll need v1.4 or higher for 3D.

Blue Jeans Cable info on HDMI cable for 3D, http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-1-4-cable.htm?hdmidept

Gadabout

My bad....

I was in error, I had assumed that the 1.4 HDMI spec also required the High Speed spec since it added Ethernet over HDMI.

According to the bluejeans article this isn't the case. They are completely different specs and a cable can be 1.4 compliant and not be high speed. So what I should have said is make sure that your HDMI cables are labeled as Category 2 or High Speed (bitrates up to 3.4 Gbps per data channel).

Thanks for pointing that out. Another reason I love this place is I'm always learning new stuff.

Scott

Gadabout

Found another pretty decent company for accessories for mounting your Flat panel. They seem to have really looked at the needs of consumers who mount their TVs and have come up with some decent pass through devices for cables.

Datacomm Electronics

Some of you might already know about this place, but I was pretty impressed with a few of their offerings. Specifically the Recessed Pro-Power Kit with Straight Blade Inlet & Recessed Pro-Power Kit With Locking Inlet. Looks like a great way to retrofit an application and still meet code requirements. You still get to use your existing surge protector for the TV using these too.

I needed 2 plugs up top by the TV, so I decided to get the Recessed Low Voltage Media Plate with Duplex Surge Suppressor. The surge block is replaceable. Might not be the best solution for surges, but I have pretty stable power in the house and I also added a whole house surge protector earlier this year.

Anyway, I think I have ordered everything I need for this install. I'll post pics once I get everything up and running.

Scott

grif32

Congrats on the TV.

Also check out the Xpand 103's 3D Glasses that work great with the Panny 3D Displays. They are universal 3D glass, I own a pair and love them.

Also the starter pack with Avatar 3D has the old Panny Glasses and let to much light in. I have two pairs and hate them. The newer Panny Glasses are lighter and let in less light. Much better glasses.

Gadabout

Thanx for the tip on the Xpand103 glasses. I might get a couple pair for extras. Generally, I would prefer rechargable over batteries, but for extra's it won't matter.

The starter pack comes in 2 versions (gen 2 or gen 3). I didn't know this when I ordered them. I just choose the less evil price. This also means that I have the gen 2 glasses. The Gen 3 starter pack is $300 on amazon and seems kind of high. I'll probably return the gen 2 starter pack and see if I can get the Gen 3 pack for the same price.

Thanks,
Scott

Edit: Damn! Looks like evryone is sold out of the Panasonic glasses (except the $300 starter pack). Hopefully, they will be back in stock within the 30 day return limit.