Dared SL2000a with NAD C370 amplifier?

Stew

I've been following the various threads here on the Dared SL2000a and I'm thinking about taking the plunge to replace the preamp section of my NAD C370 integrated. I recently acquired a Brimar 5Z4G that needs a home and I've been eyeing a set of Siemens E81CC triple micas to go with the Brimar.

I haven't been able to find many specs on the Dared or if the output is buffered. I would appreciate some reassurance that it will work well with my NAD. Here's what I do know: The Dared has a higher gain (16-19 db I think?) than the preamp section of the NAD (12 db). The volume control on the preamp section of the NAD is touchy at low volumes but I'm hoping that the alps pot in the Dared has a better taper. The amplifier section of the NAD has an input impedance of 20K ohms and an input sensitivity of 1.1v.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Joe08867

The Dared should sound quite good with the NAD as an amp. I would still prefer a completely separate amp myself but we work with what we got right?


If you are worried about the gain going into the NAD I believe you can dial back the output of the Dared if that helps.

heiney9

Not sure I'd waste the money to use it with an integrated. As a stepping stone, sure, but using the pre-out/ pre-in on an integrated isn't the best use of the pre-amp. Just IMHO. But this could be a gateway to getting a nicer (true) seperate amp.

As far as the Dared being compatible, shouldn't be an issue. Whether you'll get the maximum performance running it into an integrated, I don't know. But it's a start and should yiled better results than using the NAD pre section, probably.

H9

heiney9

Joe08867 wrote: »

I would still prefer a completely separate amp myself but we work with what we got right?.

Yes, I agree

Joe08867 wrote: »

If you are worried about the gain going into the NAD I believe you can dial back the output of the Dared if that helps.

Just how would one do that? If you have an idea I'm all ears. Using lower gain tubes like 5965 or 7062/6414 has little actual affect on the output. Changing certain resistors could be done to reduce output, but that's not for a novice.

H9

Joe08867

I read a review on 6moons that said something about it. I reread it just now and it looks like well I will just cut and paste it here.

From 6Moons
The Dared SL-2000A is perhaps the best tube preamp in the $500 category - with wooden remote control no less. In my Dared VP-20 review I pointed out that the gain of this preamp is too high to match the partnering VP-20 and produces audible hum unless the volume on the VP-20 is dialed down to mid position. Ever since then I sought advice from a technician and reset the gain of the SL-2000A to an universally acceptable level while the S/N ratio was further improved by replacing the factory 12AT7s with low noise 12AX7s. (Good 12AT7 are expensive but inexpensive 12AX7 are good!) Not only could the Dared SL-2000A now match my VP-20 to perfection, it became my favourite tube preamp. When added to the TA-10 bi-amp with battery power and coupled with the Klipsch Synergy F2, music was warm, passionate and involving. Soundstage and presence were 100% reminiscence of the La Scala.

It seems I misread some of the review. But it seems changing the 12AT7s out for 12AX7's did help improve things with that in mind I was thinking a 12AU7 would bring it down even more.

Here is the complete article: http://6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10_3.html

Stew

A separate amp may be in next years toy budget. For now, I'm hoping to use the NAD. The C370 is basically just the C160 preamp and the C270 amp all in the same box so I'm hopeful it will work.

The gain is my biggest concern. I listen a lot at low volumes and don't want to end up with all the volume control before 8 o'clock on the dial.

heiney9

Joe08867 wrote: »

I read a review on 6moons that said something about it. I reread it just now and it looks like well I will just cut and paste it here.

From 6Moons
The Dared SL-2000A is perhaps the best tube preamp in the $500 category - with wooden remote control no less. In my Dared VP-20 review I pointed out that the gain of this preamp is too high to match the partnering VP-20 and produces audible hum unless the volume on the VP-20 is dialed down to mid position. Ever since then I sought advice from a technician and reset the gain of the SL-2000A to an universally acceptable level while the S/N ratio was further improved by replacing the factory 12AT7s with low noise 12AX7s. (Good 12AT7 are expensive but inexpensive 12AX7 are good!) Not only could the Dared SL-2000A now match my VP-20 to perfection, it became my favourite tube preamp. When added to the TA-10 bi-amp with battery power and coupled with the Klipsch Synergy F2, music was warm, passionate and involving. Soundstage and presence were 100% reminiscence of the La Scala.

It seems I misread some of the review. But it seems changing the 12AT7s out for 12AX7's did help improve things with that in mind I was thinking a 12AU7 would bring it down even more.

Here is the complete article: http://6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10_3.html

I have read that review a hundred times. You can't use 12AX7's or 12AU7's in the Sl2000A. I believe they were referring to the VP-20. 12AX7 has even more gain than a 12AT7.

12AX7 has a Mu (amplification factor) 100
12AT7 has a Mu of 60
5965/6414/7062/E180CC etc has a Mu of 47
12AU7 has a Mu of 17

H9

heiney9

You will note in the review Ever since then I sought advice from a technician and reset the gain of the SL-2000A to an universally acceptable level while the S/N ratio was further improved by replacing the factory 12AT7s with low noise 12AX7s. I believe he changed out some resistors to lower the gain from the factory. This is also in reference to using it with the VP-20 mono's which have their own gain controls and don't need a pre-amp to function properly.

Tha gain is a little high on the Dared w/ respect to the volume control, but it's not noisy at all.

H9

Ricardo

My only concern would be impedance matching; I am not sure what the output impedance of the Dared is, but 20 Kohm input impedance is pretty low and you'd need a low output impedance from the pre.

Joe08867

heiney9 wrote: »

You will note in the review Ever since then I sought advice from a technician and reset the gain of the SL-2000A to an universally acceptable level while the S/N ratio was further improved by replacing the factory 12AT7s with low noise 12AX7s. I believe he changed out some resistors to lower the gain from the factory. This is also in reference to using it with the VP-20 mono's which have their own gain controls and don't need a pre-amp to function properly.

Tha gain is a little high on the Dared w/ respect to the volume control, but it's not noisy at all.H9

I agree that the reviewer had his tweaked. Like I said I missed that in the original read through of the review. You have way more history than I when it come to the Dared so I will bow out of that part of the discussion.

I also agree that the Dared is nothing if not quiet. I do not have an answer for the OP as far as how much volume knob you will get to use. I have used a Dared in my system and the volume isn't super sensitive like you describe the NAD's to be. But then again I wasn't using NAD gear in the loop and I am unsure how quiet you use your gear.

I usually listen at a medium low volume most of the time (About 1/3 the volume knob) and never really above the 1/2 mark. But I don't really listen at whisper levels unless using the system for background sound. And at that point my critical ear is not usually in play.

heiney9

Joe, I don't know either because I've never used the pre/outs, pre/in's on an integrated to know if the impedance is an issue. I'm sure he'll be ok, but if he listens at low volumes I can't say for sure.

H9

Stew

What happens if there is an impedance mismatch? Is it just a high frequency rolloff?

soundfreak1

Personaly I have never found an amp that my dared didn't improve. But haven't tried intergrated with it. But with previous ing. Units and other pre's always got good results. That dared is simply amazing. (With good tubes).

Stew

I received the following response from Dared today:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
the input impedance of sl-2000a is 100 kohms, very high work for any type of souces well. the output impedance is about 100 ohm (very low) and work for any type of power amps well.

thanks
Joe
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

The English is a little lacking but it answers the question. It should work fine with my NAD's 20 kOhm input impedance. Thanks for the replies.

Stew

heiney9

Joe is the MAN, when it comes to Dared. His Engrish is a little sloppy at times but in my experience he's been very helpful and responsive. In the end I doubt very much you'll have any issues. The NAD is a standard piece of audio as is the Dared. If you buy it right and have to flip it for whatever reason you'll be fine. Or if you buy new from Joe I believe there is a 30day trial and he's 45 minutes from me in Naperville, IL. So you are not having to send it overseas, etc.

H9