Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Sig's - SEAS tweeter or XO issue?

gaspipe

Long time lurker here. I know some of you have had quite a bit of experience with Seas drivers and Ty's offerings, so perhaps you all might have some thoughts on the matter.

I bought a set of the Linbrook Signatures (the one piece) that has the 2x7", 2x8" Excel drivers, and a Millennium tweeter (T25CF-002). I bought 'em used, so I know none of the history other than the guy I bought 'em from got them direct from Ty.

Within minutes of hooking them up, one of the tweeters fried.



The lead to the voice coil cooked. The other side is fine. I bought two new voice coils, and installed them. What I have found is the side that blew the tweeter seems to have an inordinate amount of travel in the voice coil when playing - like a driver more than a tweeter. As if there was an issue in the XO. I swapped the tweeters from the other speaker and it does the same thing. As such, I really don't want to use them until I can correct the issue. That same speaker has a bad 8" driver also. No doubt they lived hard somewhere along the line. I could tell someone had changed the voice coil in the side that blew at some point prior, as the solder joints were pretty awful compared to the rest.

The question is, should I rip into the XO's? I've never heard of a XO failure like this one. Not sure it's possible.

Thoughts, opinions, theory, conjecture all welcome. Speakers are out of warranty so I really don't want to bother Ty with it.

I'm powering these with a pair of mono Hafler XL280's.

george daniel

I'm thinking amp maybe

gaspipe

Thanks for the consideration George.

I thought that at first, but bias and dc are good on the Haflers. I even swapped amps. Definitely one tweeter has a much greater excursion than the other. I'm wondering now which is normal.

New voice coils in each tweeter too. And I swapped them back and forth.



I just opened up the one speaker with the bad 8" driver. XO's look to be OK, and these would be easy to upgrade I think. Sorta shocked to see a Sonicap in there on the tweeter XO though.

gaspipe

I have a pair of TriTrix TL's I built running on those amps now. They are substantially less robust than these monsters. If one of the amps is getting wonky, they should melt the Daytons in the TriTrix fairly quickly I'd think?

stuwee

Hi gaspipe, in a situation like you're dealing with, I'd bother Ty, you won't really be bothering him, he's a super nice guy and loves to help with his 'babys'.

Especially if you think it might be a crossover issue, he might have a great idea on updating them, just my 2 nickels.

gaspipe

stuwee wrote: »

Hi gaspipe, in a situation like you're dealing with, I'd bother Ty, you won't really be bothering him, he's a super nice guy and loves to help with his 'babys'.

Especially if you think it might be a crossover issue, he might have a great idea on updating them, just my 2 nickels.

Thanks Stuwee. That's a good plan. I haven't spoken with Ty in a good long while, so likely best to chat with him. I'm just not really familiar with the Seas drivers.

BeefJerky

I'd also open the "good" speaker and compare the wiring. If someone's been in there playing around, and it seems clear that someone was, then maybe something got hooked up incorrectly. I'd primarily suspect the wiring from the crossover to the speakers, but I'd compare the wiring within the crossover as well. In addition, by looking at both, maybe you can spot something out of the ordinary on one of the crossover parts.

gaspipe

Hey Beef Jerky, that's darned good thinking, and here's what I found: On the speaker with the very 'lively' tweeter, which had a blown voice coil, this is the XO:



Note that the + lead from the network goes into a resistor, then to the + tweeter terminal, then comes the parallel Sonicaps, etc.

In the speaker which was in OK shape, this is the XO:



Note the + lead from the network goes through the resistor then the two parallel Sonicaps before the output to the tweeter + terminal.

I suspect the latter is the correct XO configuration, but I guess I need to talk to Ty to get the schematic for the correct XO.

Whaddaya think?

gaspipe

The 8" driver issue is both drivers appear to have bent center sections, and there's some rubbing. That's gonna be expensive to fix @ $240 each

george daniel

I think you are onto something chief--let us know how it turns out.

gaspipe

TY, GD.

I can't imagine that running the signal through a 1 ohm resistor and not going through the bypass caps would be good. I'm not an EE, but it surely seems like the 'bad' speaker XO was an error.

Wondering now if I should start changing to Mills and Clarity caps while I'm in there....

Obsession18

Not having that capacitor in series with the tweeter definitely fried the voice coil. Part of the function of a capacitor in a crossover is to block low frequencies from getting to the tweeter, this is why you noticed an inordinate amount of travel in the tweeter voice due to low frequencies. I can't imagine that Ty (Tyler Acoustics) would have made that mistake, I'm thinking the previous owner may have got in there and screwed it up.

















9

gaspipe

I'm betting you're correct that Ty wouldn't have made that mistake. It was obvious someone was in there at some point, and also replaced a fried voice coil once before I was in there. The solder joints to the tweeter were really poorly done.

I moved the + wire to the other side of the bypass caps. Sounds great now. Thanks to all for the help, you guys rock! :cool:

Obsession18

Even though you have them working I would still contact Ty and get a schematic of the crossover and make sure there are no other gremlims larking in those cabinets.

VR3

Amazing how different that crossover is compared to every other speaker from Tyler I have seen...

Not saying it is altered - just interesting.

Glad you got it fixed!

gaspipe

Pic of the network....just for the record.

I can't help but think there's some room for improvement in here.

VR3

Oh theres ton of room for improvement...

Rip out the Eagle resistors and throw - the midbass network you can insert Mills 50/20 watt

Throw a Duelund in the tweeter network

Get rid of the Sonicap, Solen, Bennic bs and go Clarity Cap - MR on the tweeter and ESA or SA on the midbass network

Maybe get rid of the Solen on the bass network and put in a PX

Plenty that can be done! Just cost $$$ Have fun!