OnStar tracks your movement, even if you don't have a subscription...

kawizx9r

Check it out -

Navigation-and-emergency-services company OnStar is notifying its six million account holders that it will keep a complete accounting of the speed and location of OnStar-equipped vehicles, even for drivers who discontinue monthly service.

OnStar began e-mailing customers Monday about its update to the privacy policy, which grants OnStar the right to sell that GPS-derived data in an anonymized format.

Adam Denison, a spokesman for the General Motors subsidiary, said OnStar does not currently sell customer data, but it reserves that right. He said both the new and old privacy policies allow OnStar to chronicle a vehicle?s every movement and its speed, though it?s not clear where that?s stated in the old policy.

?What?s changed [is that if] you want to cancel your OnStar service, we are going to maintain a two-way connection to your vehicle unless the customer says otherwise,? Denison said in a telephone interview.

The connection will continue, he said, to make it ?easier to re-enroll? in the program, which charges plans from $19 to $29 monthly for help with navigation and emergencies.

The privacy changes take effect in December, Denison said, adding that the policy reinforces the company?s right to sell anonymized data.

?We hear from organizations periodically requesting our information,? he said.

He said an example of how the data might be used would be for the Michigan Department of Transportation ?to get a feel for traffic usage on a specific section of freeway.? The policy also allows the data to be used for marketing purposes by OnStar and vehicle manufacturers.

Collecting location and speed data via GPS might also create a treasure trove of data that could be used in criminal and civil cases. One could also imagine an eager police chief acquiring the data to issue speeding tickets en masse.

Jonathan Zdziarski, an Ohio forensics scientist, blogged about the new terms Tuesday. In a telephone interview, he said he was canceling his service and making sure he was being disconnected from OnStar?s network.

He said the new privacy policy goes too far.

?They added a bullet point allowing them to collect any data for any purpose,? he said.

There's more detail in the article posted by PCMAG.COM as well as Autoblog to include the Press Release. Luckily I don't have OnStar on my vehicles.

F1nut

I believe OnStar just committed suicide.

kawizx9r

F1nut wrote: »

I believe OnStar just committed suicide.

+1

There's more -

The data collection can be halted, however; OnStar must deactivate the data connection. "Unless the Data Connection to your Vehicle is deactivated, data about your Vehicle will continue to be collected even if you do not have a Plan," the privacy policy states. "It is important that you convey this to other drivers, occupants, or subsequent owners of your Vehicle. You may deactivate the Data Connection to your Vehicle at any time by contacting an OnStar Advisor."

What data does OnStar collect? The company provides a detailed list:

OnStar collects basic contact information, billing information with credit-card information, and details of the car, such as the make, model, and vehicle identification number (VIN);

vehicle information, including diagnostic trouble codes, oil life, tire pressure, and fuel economy, as well as when your fuel was last refilled;

crash information, including the direction of the crash, whether air bags were deployed, and whether the driver and passenger were wearing their seat belts;

anonymized location information, such as the location and speed of the car, via the installed GPS.

Least people can opt out of this, but how many people actually know about what OnStar is doing? There are plenty of vehicles out there equipped with OS as second/third owners and acquired them through private sale. So their information is being collected without one's consent.

And if you do contact OS to have tracking disabled, who's to say they'll actually stop tracking you?

obieone

I'm surprised gubmint motors told anyone.

WilliamM2

Old news, paranoid people disable it. Couple of posts from 3 and 4 years ago.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-tech-performance/1907458-totally-disable-onstar-and-tracking-devices-and-black-boxes.html

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-first-generation-forum-2003/114686-how-disable-onstar.html

Joe08867

I heard about this a while ago. I really think they are opening themselves up to a civil suit if they start handing out the info to government agencies. I know I would be all over them if they gave my info out.

I doubt most people know about it but you can opt out.

bobman1235

Why would anyone buy a GM car anyway?

nooshinjohn

One of the main reasons for monitoring the vehicle is for warranty purposes. If they can determine that the vehicle was abused, they can and will cut off warranty claims. I cannot speculate as to what other neffarious purposes Gov't Motors would have to track their customers like this.

exalted512

I doubt 'onstar just committed suicide'

As long as i dont start getting speeding tickets in the mail, I dont really care. We have onstar on our Acadia.
-Cody

brettw22

While Onstar is biggest, there are other companies just like this in cars (Hyundai has their new Blue Link, BMW's Assist, Lexus' Link, etc.).

I'd be surprised if any of them weren't doing almost the exact same thing.

Joe08867

I know Mercedes monitors and schedules service for certain cars. It gives you a count down and lets you know how much time you have till service. My buddies 500 gets picked up from him automatically. It's weird if you ask me.

inspiredsports

GM --> OnStar --> Bailout --> Big Brother is Watching.

Sherardp

Joe08867 wrote: »

I know Mercedes monitors and schedules service for certain cars. It gives you a count down and lets you know how much time you have till service. My buddies 500 gets picked up from him automatically. It's weird if you ask me.

My S550 does this, it alerts you of next service and what each service includes. On the NAV screen Mercedes will be shown so you know where to take it. As for OnStar, I had the service in my Escalade and it was great.

zingo

This is absolutely nothing new, and anyone who carries a smart phone has the same thing. Unless you turn-off data and wifi on your phone, your cell company (and anyone who can persuade them to get the information) knows where you are 24/7. And don't even worry about the two years of internet history your ISP is required to keep on you per the federal government...

AsSiMiLaTeD

On one hand I tend to think that people overreact about stuff like this, if I'm not doing anything wrong then I could care less about someone knowing where I am. But on the other hand, I realize that most dystopian societies depicted in movies like Minotiry Report and Gattaca and books like 1984 all likely start with little things like this, but then those are fake, aka not real.

maximillian

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

On one hand I tend to think that people overreact about stuff like this, if I'm not doing anything wrong then I could care less about someone knowing where I am.

So you've never broken any law in your lifetime? Never gone 56 in a 55? Always came to a complete stop at a stop sign? Never gone 20 in a 15 mph school zone at 10am when all the kids are in class?

And this is just motor vehicle cases. It's estimated that the average person breaks 1-3 laws per day.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1059071/Mr-Average-breaks-law-day-speeding-illegal-downloading.html

BTW, even if you are 100% innocent, the government can accuse you of a crime with just the type of circumstantial evidence that these devices record.

Here is a good video explaining how (lengthy but a good vid):
http://youtu.be/i8z7NC5sgik

I really hope we never get to a world where our every single movement is tracked by the government.

bobman1235

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I realize that most dystopian societies depicted in movies like Minotiry Report and Gattaca and books like 1984 all likely start with little things like this, but then those are fake, aka not real.

Those are fictionalized / dramatized ideas used to make a point. They're not real but the message they're conveying is meant to make you at least think about something in a way you might not otherwise.

So while they're not real, the scenarios they propose are valuable.

WilliamM2

zingo wrote: »

And don't even worry about the two years of internet history your ISP is required to keep on you per the federal government...

Your ISP only keeps a history of what IP address you have for two years, they don't keep an internet history. So far, that's against the privacy laws. Although our government is trying to change that.

gdb

Aside from all this paranoia........OnStar has the potential to save your life !

nooshinjohn

maximillian wrote: »

I really hope we never get to a world where our every single movement is tracked by the government.

Too late.:eek:

inspiredsports

gdb wrote: »

Aside from all this paranoia........OnStar has the potential to save your life !

Whatever happened to rugged individualism ???

And, everyone dies, or did someone tell you otherwise? Wait, do you live in a socialist country?

gdb

Cling to that notion as you cling to life while bleeding out in a ditch

ddmathis

There are debates right now if red light cameras are even legal and these take pictures of your license plate. Do you really think the police can hand out tickets because of on star tracking? I think people are a little bit paranoid about this whole situation.

brettw22

ddmathis wrote: »

There are debates right now if red light cameras are even legal and these take pictures of your license plate. Do you really think the police can hand out tickets because of on star tracking? I think people are a little bit paranoid about this whole situation.

Years ago a rental car company was sued because they mailed the renter a ticket for going over the speed limit. I don't remember the outcome of the lawsuit, but this has happened already and I think you'd be naieve to think that as lazy as these people are with sending tickets for red lights/speeding cameras, they'll damn sure do it by GPS if they can.

Face

Repo men love OnStar.

mrbigbluelight

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Your ISP only keeps a history of what IP address you have for two years, they don't keep an internet history. So far, that's against the privacy laws. Although our government is trying to change that.

It's been changed, several years ago. Gov't. Roadrunner. Welcome to the New World.

"I've done nothing wrong, I have nothing to worry about".
Doesn't matter if you've done nothing wrong.
A Federal Agent says you told him you've done something wrong, you have.
"I would never say such a thing to a Federal Agent.
Doesn't matter.
If he says you told him you did, than the Courts say you did.

I, for one say, "Welcome", to our New Benevolent Lords and Masters !!! :rolleyes:

WilliamM2

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

It's been changed, several years ago. Gov't. Roadrunner. Welcome to the New World.

No, it hasn't changed years ago. They are still working on it:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/236985/isp_dataretention_bill_rankles_privacy_advocates.html

http://news.cnet.http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20084939-281/house-panel-approves-broadened-isp-snooping-bill/

I'm sure it will be signed into law eventually.

sucks2beme

Run on Reynold's wrap predicted.
I'd better go buy stock now.

dkg999

That's pretty valuable data if collected with an appropriate consumer notice and privacy/usage policy. If you compare where people are driving to the current GPS maps you can figure out changes in roads and make all our GPS street maps more accurate. Traffic pattern data can help delivery routing software and make investments in streets more productive. It's not all negative.

cnh

Aren't most entities that 'sell' your data (Facebook, OnStar, and so on) in the 'business' of enhancing their profits by doing so?

Just saying. We live in a time and place where, if there is money to be made 'someone' will be there to make it. My 'browser', for example, is ALWAYS watching what I do and using that info, compiling it, selling it, etc.

Maybe information is 'all' we have left to sell these days? lol

cnh

Serendipity

Do any of you use a camera phone? Have a GPS in the car?

Did you know the government can turn on the camera without you knowing and watch you?

I'm going to grab my tin foil hat :rolleyes: