How much of a jump up is the RTi series from Monitor series?

xgnarlycorex

So I see on Polks ebay store the RTi 12's are $650, is it just me or is that an insane deal? I'm currently using Monitor 70's with a CS20 and some RM8 surrounds. I've been toying with the idea of just going 2 channel w/sub. Honestly the RTi 12's might make the PSW110 I use expendable too. Better sound, less wires is what I'm after. Using a Yamaha RX-V1065 receiver btw.

Geoff4rfc

Yeah, that's a smoking deal. I almost went for that once before and they sold out just before I made my purchase. Well, the money went somewhere else and now they've been back for awhile. I'm hoping they'll still be around so I can get them.

I've got 70's and will gladly move them to surround duty to make way for a pair of 12's.

xgnarlycorex

Yea honestly I'm over surround sound. Tired or wire everywhere, also tired of fiddling with center channel to combat dynamic range at low volumes. So I would need an amp to power the rti's properly?

cstmar01

the rti series likes power and a good amp will help them out a ton. I had the M70's and stepped up to the A9's. Big improvment but even with the M70's getting an amp on them will make a difference. For music the A9's or 12's IMO are a bit bright. For HT they are awesome. Still OK for music but I like other speakers better.

xgnarlycorex

I'm torn, maybe I should just invest in an amp for the 70s and sell all the other stuff.

Geoff4rfc

DSkip wrote: »

You don't have to have surround sound to get a great movie experience.

xgnarlycorex wrote: »

Yea honestly I'm over surround sound. Tired or wire everywhere, also tired of fiddling with center channel to combat dynamic range at low volumes.

I am appalled, agasp, in unbelief, total shock :eek:

I am reporting you both to the sound police. Your equipment will be confiscated and given to the less fortunate.

nhhiep

if you want to get the A9s for 2 channel music, you better have a huge amp, or a sub. I am pushing my Rti12 from a HK Signature 5 channel 100WPC amp in bi-amp mode. So in theory, each speaker is getting 200w. yet there is no bass at all.

falconcry72

nhhiep wrote: »

if you want to get the A9s for 2 channel music, you better have a huge amp, or a sub. I am pushing my Rti12 from a HK Signature 5 channel 100WPC amp in bi-amp mode. So in theory, each speaker is getting 200w. yet there is no bass at all.

I'm not familiar with your amp, but if your rti-12's have "no bass", you're doing something wrong.

The A9's do not need a sub nor a huge amp to have plenty of bass for 2 channel music. They do need decent power, but nothing out of the ordinary.

nhhiep

falconcry72 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with your amp, but if your rti-12's have "no bass", you're doing something wrong.

The A9's do not need a sub nor a huge amp to have plenty of bass for 2 channel music. They do need decent power, but nothing out of the ordinary.

The HK Signature 2.1 is a 100WPC x5 with 100 amps of current.

what are you using to drive your A9/Rti12 now? I also tried Denon AVR3806, which puts out 120WPC and it still doesn't give any more bass than Rti8s

tonyb

Could be a setup issue also with regards to your no bass problems. 100 AMPS devided by 5 isn't much. Also in bridged mode, alot of amps don't like impendance swings and usually sound worse. Maybe give us alittle more detail on your gear, the room, cabling, how you have them crossed over,a subwoofer, and we can help you get the most out of those bad boys.

rdb2001

tonyb wrote: »

Could be a setup issue also with regards to your no bass problems. 100 AMPS devided by 5 isn't much. Also in bridged mode, alot of amps don't like impendance swings and usually sound worse. Maybe give us alittle more detail on your gear, the room, cabling, how you have them crossed over,a subwoofer, and we can help you get the most out of those bad boys.

+1, those were about to be my exact words. For some reason, I get the feeling that he has them set to small and crossed over at 80 or 100hz. I have heard the RTi10's and 12s and the RTiA9s and neither lacks bass when properly amplified and setup.

BeefJerky

tonyb wrote: »

100 AMPS devided by 5 isn't much.

I disagree. Based on ohms law, 100 amps divided into 5 channels at 8 ohms is equivalent to 3200 peak watts per channel. Specifically, that would be 160 volts and 20 amps per channel. That's assuming that the power supply can output that high of a voltage. However, the point is, if the 100 amp figure is accurate, current is absolutely not the limiting factor here. Even if he was driving 4 ohm speakers, that would still be the equivalent of 1600 peak watts per channel.

So, if his 100 amp figure is accurate, that amounts to 100w RMS and 3200w transient peaks. I don't think his amplifier is really the limiting factor here.

Upstatemax

BeefJerky wrote: »

I disagree. Based on ohms law, 100 amps divided into 5 channels at 8 ohms is equivalent to 3200 peak watts per channel. Specifically, that would be 160 volts and 20 amps per channel. That's assuming that the power supply can output that high of a voltage. However, the point is, if the 100 amp figure is accurate, current is absolutely not the limiting factor here. Even if he was driving 4 ohm speakers, that would still be the equivalent of 1600 peak watts per channel.

So, if his 100 amp figure is accurate, that amounts to 100w RMS and 3200w transient peaks. I don't think his amplifier is really the limiting factor here.

20amps/ch is not tons of current. My Parasound will push 60amps/ch...

However, I agree with a setup issue. Even my Rti A7's hooked up to my Denon have little issue with bass.

BeefJerky

Upstatemax wrote: »

20amps/ch is not tons of current. My Parasound will push 60amps/ch...

So, yours can (in theory) do 19,200w transient peaks. However, unless you are running your system in a stadium, I don't see 3,200w vs 19,200w making any actual difference. Even more importantly, that's only transient power, meaning it can only output that for a split second. It has a very limited effect in the real world.

That being said, your Parasound most likely has a higher RMS wattage as well, which could actually make a difference.

rebuy

Some people should not be buying speakers with binding post and bi amp capabilities. They are able to operate a mobile phone or an ipod etc. etc.
When it come to more more complex electronics, well, I think you get the point.
They need plug and play....:eek:

Mon40CSMM10

DSkip wrote: »

2 channel RTi12's w/ an amp to drive them would be enough to satisfy me for movies. They put out a lot of sound. You don't have to have surround sound to get a great movie experience.

However, sounds that were deliberately intended for the surround speakers just don't get the same overall effect with just front speakers, even if the speakers are slightly toed out. This is especially true if the movie uses discrete channel surround sound as opposed to matrixed surround sound.

I tried going with only 2.1 (Left, Right, Subwoofer) for a while and soon went back to 3.1 (Front Left, Center, Front Right, Subwoofer). Soon after I went 3.1, I wanted the surrounds again so I went back to 5.1 surround sound (Front Left, Center, Front Right, Left Surround, Right Surround). I don't think I have a need for 7.1 or 9.1 surround sound, however.

Then again, if one is watching mostly mono movies or those that were only stereo movies (even those that were Dolby Stereo as opposed to Dolby Surround), then surround speakers are not an essential.

Outfitter03

BeefJerky wrote: »

So, yours can (in theory) do 19,200w transient peaks. However, unless you are running your system in a stadium, I don't see 3,200w vs 19,200w making any actual difference. Even more importantly, that's only transient power, meaning it can only output that for a split second. It has a very limited effect in the real world.

That being said, your Parasound most likely has a higher RMS wattage as well, which could actually make a difference.

I would like to see your calculations. Remember that with audio we are dealing with AC impedance, not DC resistance. The DC rail voltages are usually in the 50-60 volt ranges and the total output of any power amp or multi-channel AVR is limited by the main power supply and transformer output unless it is a high end unit that has discrete power supplies for each channel. This is why Bi-amping an AVR that operates class AB is usually a wasted of time.

deronb1

If you are going to get the RTi12s, get an external amp of at least 200wpc. I own a pair and have come to terms that I am going to have to suck it up and get one too.

My Pioneer Elite is 110wpc and although it sounds ok, I just cant get that "warm fuzzy" feeling" from these speakers. I like the sound of them, however, and I am pretty sure that adding the proper power will make them "sing"

BeefJerky

Outfitter03 wrote: »

I would like to see your calculations. Remember that with audio we are dealing with AC impedance, not DC resistance. The DC rail voltages are usually in the 50-60 volt ranges and the total output of any power amp or multi-channel AVR is limited by the main power supply and transformer output unless it is a high end unit that has discrete power supplies for each channel. This is why Bi-amping an AVR that operates class AB is usually a wasted of time.

I based my calculations around Ohm's Law and Watt's Law. I realize they are based upon DC impedance, however, they are close enough for the sake of this discussion. Besides, since the impedance in a loudspeaker varies based on frequency, it would be impossible to give any sort of exact wattage rating without knowing the impedance plot of the particular speakers.

My point in all this was how little difference the so-called transient amperage figures those other posters gave would actually make in the real world, even if the rail voltages were high enough. However, as you mentioned, the rail voltages are typically going to be too low to even have a chance of a loudspeaker pulling the supposed transient amperage the manufacturers claim. Transient amperage or wattage means pretty much nothing in real life. It's RMS wattage that is important.

I also agree that the so-called bi-amping built into many AVR's is worthless, and may even be worse than without it.

Fatty McButter

I have seen this same deal on the polk ebay store for the rti 12's, and also good deals for the a9's. Currently I have rti a5's in the front, but I would not mind moving them to surround in favor of the a9's. I just don't want to have to buy a separate amp to use them properly. However, I did just buy the pioneer elite sc-35 yesterday. I know I am likely dreaming, but maybe it has enough power all by itself?

nooshinjohn

Having towers in the surround positions is sublime. when I am able to have a full surround setup again, towers in all positions except center will be a requirement.

SRTer

nhhiep wrote: »

if you want to get the A9s for 2 channel music, you better have a huge amp, or a sub. I am pushing my Rti12 from a HK Signature 5 channel 100WPC amp in bi-amp mode. So in theory, each speaker is getting 200w. yet there is no bass at all.

Something is wrong with that statement. I have the RTi A9's an I had some decent bass with my SC-35 in 2 channel. Then I added a 200 watt Adcom which increased the bass and overall control of the all frequencies.

I have found the adjusting your EQ will help because some AVR's seen to take away from the mid and bass of the RTi A9 after running the auto calibration.

I don't often run my power sub unless I'm listening to a BluRay are entertaining company. As far as 2 channel music, I don't ever turn on the power sub and run the DIRECT setting in the AVR to keep my custom EQ.

SRTer

Fatty McButter wrote: »

I have seen this same deal on the polk ebay store for the rti 12's, and also good deals for the a9's. Currently I have rti a5's in the front, but I would not mind moving them to surround in favor of the a9's. I just don't want to have to buy a separate amp to use them properly. However, I did just buy the pioneer elite sc-35 yesterday. I know I am likely dreaming, but maybe it has enough power all by itself?

You made a good choice just in a nick of time because the SC-35's sold out at Costco.

I personally have ran the SC-35 with RTi A9's and RTi A7's with great results and you will be able to see ain a little that I'm not lying.

Sure more is better in most cases as watts are concerned. This statement automatically assumes the watt are without audible distortion and come from a quality amp and source.

You can run you RTi A9's without fear up to reference for movies which I have done. You will shake your room if they are set to full range (LARGE). Enjoy.

SRTer

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Having towers in the surround positions is sublime. when I am able to have a full surround setup again, towers in all positions except center will be a requirement.

I love it too. All of my systems will be this way as long as I can afford it.