MIT Cable dilemma

heiney9

I have been wanting MIT Shotgun S3 speaker cables to replace my Terminator II's, but I just can't quite justify the high cost because in my mind I'm not convinced the $$$ spent will give me a difference that's worth the additional cost.

I recently sold my older Terminator II's because they were 10' and I didn't need the extra 2' on each side and I had been wanting to get the last generation Terminator II's with the ribbed boxes and mesh sheathing to match my I/C's.

I found a local Polkie that was selling his 8' last gen. Terminator II's so I sold my older 10' pair and bought the newer 8' pair. I swear after listening to the newer 8' T2's that they seem to be quite a bit brighter than my older T2's. Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems that way.

I am looking at pulling the trigger on a pair of Shotgun S3's and I am wondering if the Shotgun are a little more neutral and less bright than the Terminator series.

I demo'd the CVT Terminator's during the first round of MIT demo's and at the time I felt those were a tad to forward compared to my old T2's also.

I really need to get some impressions of the Shotgun line in general before I plunk down my hard earned money. So those that use and love the Shotgun line please give me your impressions, thoughts, experiences.

H9

P.s. This is NOT a cable debate thread. Please, for the love of GOD do not turn it into one. I am asking a very specific question about a specific product.

cstmar01

When I had the T2's in my system I did think it was a bit more laid back compared to the CVT's I have from the demo right now as well. That being said, I do enjoy the CVT series more than I did the T2's even if they tend to have more of a top end to them. I think that they offer a lot more in other places. On a few tracks I did notice things a lot more such as a high hat that stood out like a sore thumb on it. However I don't mind it as it was something that wasn't there before, so I like the added detail lol.

I spoke to Joe Abrams as I was getting quotes to redo my whole system with the shotgun S1's. He told me that the S1's will end up being more neutral compared to the CVT due to the better internal wiring used in them. He said that even though the CVT have a higher amount of poles that the Shotguns are a better series as they will also offer the switch so you can match the independence.

thsmith

H9 is talking speaker cables not RCAs, speaker cables do not have the impedance matching switch.

Sorry H9, I do have S3 cables all around but have only compared them to AQ T4s.

cstmar01

thsmith wrote: »

H9 is talking speaker cables not RCAs, speaker cables do not have the impedance matching switch.

Sorry H9, I do have S3 cables all around but have only compared them to AQ T4s.

Sorry I understand speaker cables but I also thought he might want to redo the rest to match the series.

The speaker cables alone were an improvement but its even better when you do everything IMO.

heiney9

Chris,

I would agree the CVT's while being slightly more forward than my older T2's did bring a lot more in just about every other aspect. My system generally leans on the warmer side of neutral with the tubes and the Aleph, it's very laid back so I was surprised to notice (it seems) the newer T2's seem to be a little on the bright side. Perhaps I need more listening time and evaluation.

Joe Abrams has a pair of NOS Shotgun S3's for $599.....that's a pretty good deal for a new in box pair. I just don't want any regrets after I shell out the money and don't realize a significant difference.

Is the impedance switch also on the speaker cables? IIRC, it's only on the I/C's

H9

Face

If you plan on using Shotgun I/C's, go with the Shotgun speaker cables.

reeltrouble1

my Shotgun's are at least two levels above my former terminator...better bass control, more bass presence, more refined treble, more musicality overall. I use some S1 but most are S3, I do believe it is best to use one line throughout the system to get the ultimate result from that cable line-up.

RT1

Erik Tracy

Synergy is a ****, eh?

I went from AQ Rockefellers to Shotgun S2s for the speaker cables (MF A5 Int and B&W CDM1NTs).

My thoughts - Shotguns smoothed the high end, retained bass control for a more 'balanced' sound.

But, as I've learned from so many here - everything counts, so only you will know how that may play out in your rig.

I may also be a bit of a contrarian, but I don't run a full Shotgun 'loom'. I have Shotgun S3 ICs, but I actually prefer AQ Jaguar ICs from my SACD player - amazing midbass control and treble presentation.

ymmv...

heiney9

Erik Tracy wrote: »

so only you will know how that may play out in your rig.

ymmv...

Yes, I know the old addage above, but there are a core of people here who have used MIT and moved up the ranks and I just need a little reassurance there are fairly significant differences and I'm looking for a tad more warmth and laid back presentation.

When I say the T2's are brighter, I am just comparing them to the older T2's. My system is still in the neutral spectrum. I was just surprised a newer version of the same cable had such a different balance of sound.

Thanks for the comments so far and keep the thoughts coming

H9

P.s. Normally I'd buy, compare, and flip if nec. But, I just bought a new house and my audio fun money account is somewhat depleted at the moment (and I don't put audio gear on a credit card) so I need a little reasurance before I spend that kind of money.

F1nut

I found the CVT1's to be much more laid back compared the the T2's. I'm surprised you guys are saying otherwise.

I am wondering if the Shotgun are a little more neutral and less bright than the Terminator series.

Without a doubt.

Erik Tracy

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes, I know the old addage above, but there are a core of people here who have used MIT and moved up the ranks and I just need a little reassurance there are fairly significant differences and I'm looking for a tad more warmth and laid back presentation.

When I say the T2's are brighter, I am just comparing them to the older T2's. My system is still in the neutral spectrum. I was just surprised a newer version of the same cable had such a different balance of sound.

Thanks for the comments so far and keep the thoughts coming

H9

P.s. Normally I'd buy, compare, and flip if nec. But, I just bought a new house and my audio fun money account is somewhat depleted at the moment (and I don't put audio gear on a credit card) so I need a little reasurance before I spend that kind of money.

Bold comments - imo - that is how I'd characterize the Shotgun S2s I have.

heiney9

To be fair Jesse, I listened to the CVT's awhile ago when Ricardo was running the show. That was my impression then, not sure it would be the same today that's why I asked to hear them again. Not sure I was ever added to the list, but I wanted another opportunity once everyone else had a chance.

That is good to hear the Shotguns are more laid back and neutral than the T2's, that's sort of what I'm looking for, except I still need to add Larry's rings, dynamat the drivers and when the spikes are back in stock add those. Maybe those things should come first and then worry about cable upgrades.

To damn many variables in this hobby :biggrin:

inspiredsports

I can't remember all of the speaker cables I've compared, but there were many from Monster, AQ, Analysis Plus, MIT AVT's, MIT Exp's, Kimber, etc., etc. before I landed upon Shotgun S2 Speaker Interface Cables and IC's (the impedance matching switches are only on the IC's).

Quoting directly from RT1, ". . . better bass control, more bass presence, more refined treble, more musicality overall . . ." is what made the Shotgun's stand apart from the rest (Kimber 12TC's were close).

I also agree that it is important to use Shotgun IC's if you use Shotgun Speaker Interface Cables. I have closely listened to many other IC's (listed below in no particular order) and the matched S2 IC's sound best. I also found that pure silver IC's of any complexion don't seem to match well with my S2 Speaker Cables.

some of the IC's compared:
VTL/David Manley Copper/Silver Mix
Ben's Silver IC's
Monster Stereo Audio 400i
Moon Audio Blue Dragon Silver w/Cardas GRMO RCA's
MIT PC Squared
Zu Oxyfuel
Tara Labs RSC Prime M2
Polk Cobra Cable
Nordost Frey
Furutech Audio Reference III
AudioQuest Sidewinder
Audioquest King Cobra

Last, we all know how subjective this is and you are really going to have to try it for yourself and experiment.

Will Joe send you some loaners?

Face

Brock, get off the pot already, you know they're everything what you want.

inspiredsports

Face wrote: »

Brock, get off the pot already, you know they're everything what you want.

:biggrin:

BlueFox

heiney9 wrote: »

Joe Abrams has a pair of NOS Shotgun S3's for $599.....that's a pretty good deal for a new in box pair. I just don't want any regrets after I shell out the money and don't realize a significant difference.

Ask him if he still has the Shotgun S1.3 speaker cables I returned, and see if you can try those. They would not work with my amps in mono mode. There was an electrical issue that resulted in pops and distortion in the speakers. On the other hand the S1.3 XLR interconnects work great, and are fantastic.

An alternative is the Shunyata line of speaker cables. While I cannot give an A/B comparison to the MIT, I can say that installing the Anaconda bought the sound to a new level of accuracy, and sound stage imaging.

http://www.mitcables.com/available-online/shotgun-s1.3-speaker-cable.html
http://www.musicdirect.com/c-647-speaker-cables.aspx?pagenum=3&sortfield=Name&sortdirection=ASC&perpage=24&BrandFilterID=0

heiney9

Face wrote: »

Brock, get off the pot already, you know they're everything what you want.

:biggrin::biggrin:

You are probably right! With the S2 I/C's you sent me in for repair (finally!!), it's probably the path I should follow.

H9

madmax

If you are willing to pay shipping both ways I have a pair you can try.
madmax

heiney9

madmax wrote: »

If you are willing to pay shipping both ways I have a pair you can try.
madmax

MM, you just made my day with that offer. I have a Fedex account so I can send you a pre-paid shipping label. I'll PM you some details later today.

Thanks for the offer, this will really help me decide.

H9

dpowell

Brock,
I'm definitely interested to hear your thoughts/review of the S3's if you get them. I'm in exactly the same situation with the S3 IC's and T2 speaker cables (my T2's were made in1996).

stuwee

I have very limited experience with IC's, even less with speaker cables, but could the 'burn in' time have something to do with what you heard? I mean speaker cables tend to be on the large side, maybe they needed more time to settle down a notch?

heiney9

stuwee wrote: »

I have very limited experience with IC's, even less with speaker cables, but could the 'burn in' time have something to do with what you heard? I mean speaker cables tend to be on the large side, maybe they needed more time to settle down a notch?

Oh yes, burn in is a concern, but all the cables in question are beyond the burn-in point since they were/are all bought used.

H9

madmax

I forgot to mention, mine are Bi-Wire for the highs and lows, do your speakers support that? To be clear, these are the Shotgun S3's.
madmax

heiney9

The S3's are exactly what I'm looking for. The Bi-wire is going to be an issue because I have SDA 1C's and only 1 set of terminals. Could they be doubled up? The terminals on the 1C's have been upgraded to Vampire Wire binding posts.

H9

inspiredsports

This thread had gotten me thinking about my wife's incessant nagging that I'm running 2 complete rigs with S2's. I'm going to seriously consider parting with 1 set of 10' speaker cables (not bi-wired) and 2 or 3 sets of 2 meter S2 IC's. Are you set on S3's, or would you possibly consider S2's?

heiney9

I'd consider S2's as well. I already have 1 pr. S2 I/C's. 10' is more than I want, but when an opportunity comes along I can't be picky.

Juat keep me posted, I'm not in a huge hurry as it's my nature to ponder and over analyze to death. :biggrin:

dorokusai

I find the Terminator series to be no different than Audioquest or similar brand. It's not until the Shotgun series that I've heard a difference. It's the standard in my book and never go to level 1....stick with 3 as you won't hear a difference. That's the one thing I believe is just marketing in regards to MIT.

Yes, on the doubled up question. Go Bi-Wired for the future as you never know what you may own at that time.

madmax

I don't know if they sound the same or not if doubled up. I'll take a look tonight to see if I think they can physically be doubled up. If doro says its ok then it probably is. I used to have 1C's but I couldn't remember if they had the dual set of inputs or not.
madmax

treitz3

F1nut wrote: »

I found the CVT1's to be much more laid back compared the the T2's. I'm surprised you guys are saying otherwise.

It's gotta be system dependent, Jesse. I say that because in my rig, the T2's were more laid back. Overall, I preferred the CVT1's over the T2's though.

pearsall001

heiney9 wrote: »

MM, you just made my day with that offer. I have a Fedex account so I can send you a pre-paid shipping label. I'll PM you some details later today.

Thanks for the offer, this will really help me decide.

H9

That's the only way to do it...as you well know. Give them a listen in your system then get up your arse & make the upgrade. You know you want them!!!

madmax

Hi H9,
I found it to be mechanically possible to connect the two leads together without damage to the leads so long as you are carefull with the installation. Burn in should not be a concern as I am willing to give you a 30 day demo on the cables. Cables do need a few hours of burn in once they are moved around however tt is much less than new cables require, maybe a few hours to reach the optimum.
madmax