APC review or panamax

TECHNOKID

myke wrote: »

thanks H9 & Technokid, i guess i got concerned when the amp says a real 200w/ch with 5 channels, not to mention the 58"plasma.

what are your thoughts on tripp lite HT7300PC?

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3346

seems like a good product/co. and ample spec's which is nice to find easily

Seems like a decent product and it points out it is made for AV use and seems to have most the specs required for AV usage.

myke wrote: »

i dont know if its a 15 or 20amp. how can i confirm (im sure its easy but just not sure) just the plug in my livingroom. house built in 2006.

Not sure about the US but in Canada a typical appliance is 15 amps so unless this is a dedicated breaker it should be 15 amps. If you go to your breaker panel and find which one is dedicated to this circuit you will notice the rating on the breaker.

I too read that the conditionner must match the capacity of the breaker (which is not exactly a bad thing) but I do not see or undestand what is the fuss as even if one of the 2 was rated higher or lower, the lower rating would pop first. This product is rated at 15 amps and close to 1500 watts so IMO, this should be perfect for present use.

digitalvideo

I think everyone should not listen to heiny who's not educated on surge protection, he's quite ignorant. He just recommends different random units without even knowing the design function or how much surge voltage it can handle which is not someone you want to get advice from.

You can contact any manufacturer and ask them whether or not it's ok to plug a 15 amp surge protector into a 20 amp outlet and see what they say, it's not recommended and it's a possible fire hazard.

heiny is just mad he fell for the mov scam. lol

digitalvideo

myke wrote: »

i dont know if its a 15 or 20amp. how can i confirm (im sure its easy but just not sure) just the plug in my livingroom. house built in 2006.

You can find out if it's a 15 amp or 20 amp by looking at the breaker switch in your breaker box of the circuit outlet it's powering. It will either say 15 or 20 on it in white numbers on the breaker switch.

If your electronics are all plugged into a single 15 amp outlet I would add up all the watts each electronic device you have plugged into it to make sure you're not stressing it.

heiney9

digitalvideo wrote: »

If your electronics are all plugged into a single 15 amp outlet I would add up all the watts each electronic device you have plugged into it to make sure you're not stressing it.

FAIL again,

Amperage not wattage.

H9

heiney9

Also, I'm using a similar unit with as much or more gear plugged into it and it's not even close to being stressed.

H9

dorokusai

Regardless of the breaker rating, chances are that you're constantly over that actual rating if you just look at numbers. This is a fully loaded number, maximum output and draw which just doesn't happen in the real world. When it does, it's simply instantaneous, microseconds and happens so fast that the tolerance of the breaker is unaffected and won't trip.

TECHNOKID

digitalvideo wrote: »

I think everyone should not listen to heiny who's not educated on surge protection, he's quite ignorant. He just recommends different random units without even knowing the design function or how much surge voltage it can handle which is not someone you want to get advice from.

You can contact any manufacturer and ask them whether or not it's ok to plug a 15 amp surge protector into a 20 amp outlet and see what they say, it's not recommended and it's a possible fire hazard.

heiny is just mad he fell for the mov scam. lol

...and you claim to be more educated? Says who? What is your education on the subject? Why don't you and westom start an educational thread with PROOF at hands that MOVs are a fire hazard (not some rival companies that says so but from reliable source) and stay away from TROLLING each and every threads that discusses SPs or conditioners.

When I was in the military, we were using LOW priced radio shack single surge protector with no issue with the gear and no fire hazard. When I operated my electronic work shop, I was using many CHEAP power bars which had built in SPs to protect clients gear, NO issues, NO fire. I used better quality APCs in my home to protect the gear I cherish, NO issue, NO fire. We use multiple PS protections bars daily at work to protect our expensive audio and visual gear against potential harm in hotels which at times power is not ideal, NO issues, NO fire.

All PS bars and conditionners are glorified power bars with added components for extra protection, filtering, power conditionning, has flashy lights and potential meter(s). Where is the fire hazard? IMO, this is a much better solution than using multiple extension cords with wrong wire gage which were well known to dause fire as power bars, PS bars and conditioners use appropriate gage and are engineered for such task. With your claim, tell me why government(s), military and corporate sector would use such? Why does government(s), and further more insurance companies do not ban such if they are a fire hazard?

Please stay on topic if you want to participate, Myke, the OP NEVER asked if MOVs were a hazard he only asked which amongst a few brands would be the best bang for his buck and if any were better than the other and why. Yet I say the product he is seeking to buy will meet his needs and he will be a happy camper.

digitalvideo and westom, please learn to respect the discussion topic(s) and stick with it, if you can not do that simply start your own thread which reflects your views on your own topic.

digitalvideo

heiney9 wrote: »

FAIL again,

Amperage not wattage.

H9

The amount or number of watts on a circuit does matter. FAIL AGAIN! LOL

TECHNOKID

dorokusai wrote: »

Regardless of the breaker rating, chances are that you're constantly over that actual rating if you just look at numbers. This is a fully loaded number, maximum output and draw which just doesn't happen in the real world. When it does, it's simply instantaneous, microseconds and happens so fast that the tolerance of the breaker is unaffected and won't trip.

If the breaker is not dedicated, I would be worried a lot more about what else is hooked up to that breaker (which has NOTHING to do with the conditioner) which may trip the home breaker (a pain but will not cause fire).

TECHNOKID

digitalvideo wrote: »

The amount or number of watts on a circuit does matter. FAIL AGAIN! LOL

Agreed that watts are equal to voltage x current however, breakers are rated in CURRENT NOT WATTAGE. The current is the important variable to avoid the breaker from tripping. The wattage is the end result of voltage and current but the current is what is harmfull.

Myke, I hope you got the answers you needed as this thread is again turning into a war zone. YOU ARE SAFE WITH THE PRODUCT YOU WANT TO BUY!!! Ignore MOV babble and whole house protection, it is not related to your needs and will only need to UN-NEEDED confusion...

heiney9

digitalvideo wrote: »

The amount or number of watts on a circuit does matter. FAIL AGAIN! LOL

Yes, it does but you never mentioned amperage and over amping something consistently can get you in more trouble than drawing more watts can. I should have been clearer since you obviously can't connect the dots yourself.

They are both important, but like I stated and now Doro stated, simply adding the MAX Wattage on the back of the components is a gross misrepresentation of the component being used in the real world. Those ratings are maximum CONTINUOUS ratings and components rarely if ever run at the maximum continuously. That's where YOUR epic fail is!

An amplifer isn't like a hair dryer. The amp at idle draws very little and as you use it it draws more but it's never continuous like a hair dryer is. With the the hair dryer you have a low and hi setting and it either draws, let's say, 600watts on low or 1200 watts on hi. A stereo component doesn't operate that way.

H9

H9

Polkie2009

+1 H9, have had a hair dryer trip the gfci outlet numerous times in the bathroom. Something else that can suck up the amps is a vacuum cleaner.

DMara

You guys should have known these two trolls won't accept any of your logical explanations Haven't you guys seen enough of westom's and digitalvideo's blah blah blah at each and every AV forum? Do you really think a few common knowledge posts can change their behavior?

dorokusai

TECHNOKID wrote: »

If the breaker is not dedicated, I would be worried a lot more about what else is hooked up to that breaker (which has NOTHING to do with the conditioner) which may trip the home breaker (a pain but will not cause fire).

I wouldn't. You're in your home now with probably more than rated appliances on a single 15 amp breaker....so you best be on your way to Home Depot to muscle up everything. It's just a low priority issue to me and something I just don't worry about.

TECHNOKID

DMara wrote: »

You guys should have known these two trolls won't accept any of your logical explanations Haven't you guys seen enough of westom's and digitalvideo's blah blah blah at each and every AV forum? Do you really think a few common knowledge posts can change their behavior?

The only thing that could change is a ban...

digitalvideo

TECHNOKID wrote: »

...and you claim to be more educated? Says who? What is your education on the subject? Why don't you and westom start an educational thread with PROOF at hands that MOVs are a fire hazard (not some rival companies that says so but from reliable source) and stay away from TROLLING each and every threads that discusses SPs or conditioners.

So far no one on this entire thread is even properly educated on surge protection and for you to buy into the marketing scams of APC, Monster, Panamax, Triplite who's units have failed in the thousands all over the World proves this. No one on this thread offers any specifics or knowledgeable views on the subject, you all just get emotional and defensive when others point out how mov's are inferior being used downstream at the outlet which they are. None of you can counter with your own sources, you just attack our proven claims and sources, I have posted multiple links/sources and you respond back with whiney defensive complaints of how we're taking over this thread. and just because "YOU" haven't experienced a problem with a surge protector doesn't mean the thousands of other people have not. For example go over to Amazon.com and read the reviews and contact the customers who bought those mov based surge protectors and plenty of them report on them failing due to surges from storms and other problems from the electric grid.

TECHNOKID wrote: »

When I was in the military, we were using LOW priced radio shack single surge protector with no issue with the gear and no fire hazard. When I operated my electronic work shop, I was using many CHEAP power bars which had built in SPs to protect clients gear, NO issues, NO fire. I used better quality APCs in my home to protect the gear I cherish, NO issue, NO fire. We use multiple PS protections bars daily at work to protect our expensive audio and visual gear against potential harm in hotels which at times power is not ideal, NO issues, NO fire.

The U.S. Military is known for supplying very cheap products to it's Soldiers with regards to certain things...Yes Special Forces and Navy Seals will get state of the art electronic GPS tracking system and night vision goggles but for the vast vast vast majority of enlisted service men they get very low end things like a transistor radio and your cheap mov surge protector, the U.S. Military now more than ever because of $14 trillion in debt and defense cuts in the budget on the way are always looking to cut costs and save money on as many things as they can. Hell even the Soldiers were complaining to Donald Rumsfeld that the humvees doing patrols across Iraq weren't even properly armored so your story about mov's in the military is not surprising, but that still doesn't mean anything due to the fact thousands of people have had their mov based surge protectors fail on them and had to return them and go through a lot of trouble to get the companies to follow through on the warranty. The anecdotal evidence out there is so immense and massive that there is no counter argument anymore.

TECHNOKID wrote: »

All PS bars and conditionners are glorified power bars with added components for extra protection, filtering, power conditionning, has flashy lights and potential meter(s). Where is the fire hazard? IMO, this is a much better solution than using multiple extension cords with wrong wire gage which were well known to dause fire as power bars, PS bars and conditioners use appropriate gage and are engineered for such task. With your claim, tell me why government(s), military and corporate sector would use such? Why does government(s), and further more insurance companies do not ban such if they are a fire hazard?

The fire hazard? Do you not read all the reviews online of owners that have posted their own reviews and horror stories of them failing due to storms and all the complaints these surge protector companies recieve. If you want to witness and experience a fire hazard in person then send a 6,000 volt surge through a mov based surge protector which is the equivalent of a near by lightning strike and see what happens to the unit, the mov inside will exploide and the unit will start smoking and that surge will travel through to the connected electronics. If "YOU' don't live in a part of the U.S. that doesn't get many storms then obviously you're at lesser odds of experiencing a problem but for many people living in the Southeast and especially Florida and the Keys it's quite common.

Now, why doesn't Govt and Insurance Companies not ban these products from being sold? Why doesn't Govt and Insurance Companies ban Gun Shows selling guns to people on large amounts of anti-psychotic prescription drugs who suffer from serious depression, bipolar disorder? Why doesn't the Govt and Insurance Companies stop GE (General Electric) from sending our technology to China and working with Iran? Why does our Govt and ATF send fully automatic machine guns into Mexico (Operation Fast & Furious, Operation Gun Runner) that end up in the hands of brutal Drug Cartels and Gangs that end up back on the Streets of Phoenix at crime scenes? Why doesn't Govt and Insurance Companies stop Farmers and Big Agriculture from pumping Cows full of steroids and other drugs that end up in the food and milk we consume? Why doesn't Govt and Insurance Companies stop giving trillions of our tax dollars to Wallstreet that end up investing that money overseas and not invest that in the U.S.?

So your logic as to why Govt and Insurance Companies aren't stopping mov surge protector companies from being bought by consumers is so ignorant and naive, well after all the examples I gave above why don't you think why the Govt and Insurance Companies don't stop these scams being sold? The Insurance Industry isn't known for it's good heartedness.


The problem here is the lies, misinformation or just ignorance about mov's being pushed here by people who don't know much about them and the naive customer buys them and ends up having their electronics destroyed, so I just pass along information to help warn people of these possible scenarios which do exist often. The whole point of these website forums is not to all have some little chat gang where everyone agrees but to disagree and expose scams, learn new things, share ideas and be consumer advocates and hold companies to higher standards.

This gives information on mov's malfunctioning in plug-in surge protectors:

http://www.djsociety.org/Surge_1.htm

digitalvideo

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes, it does but you never mentioned amperage and over amping something consistently can get you in more trouble than drawing more watts can. I should have been clearer since you obviously can't connect the dots yourself.

They are both important, but like I stated and now Doro stated, simply adding the MAX Wattage on the back of the components is a gross misrepresentation of the component being used in the real world. Those ratings are maximum CONTINUOUS ratings and components rarely if ever run at the maximum continuously. That's where YOUR epic fail is!

An amplifer isn't like a hair dryer. The amp at idle draws very little and as you use it it draws more but it's never continuous like a hair dryer is. With the the hair dryer you have a low and hi setting and it either draws, let's say, 600watts on low or 1200 watts on hi. A stereo component doesn't operate that way.

H9

H9

Your logic is flawed. Now tell me how many pieces of electronics can be plugged into a single outlet circuit till it experiences stress and overloads the circuit. Now if you respond back with a number then that proves that YES too many pieces of connected equipment on a single circuit can overload it. Your logic above is basically telling people they don't need to worry about anything, just plug whatever you got into the outlet and don't worry about it...which is a dangerous and irresponsible thing to tell people.

digitalvideo

I challenge anyone who owns a mov based surge protector to open it up and look inside and inspect the mov and it's current condition. Just because the outside power lights are on doesn't mean the mov inside is functioning.

DMara

digitalvideo wrote: »

I challenge anyone who owns a mov based surge protector to open it up and look inside and inspect the mov and it's current condition. Just because the outside power lights are on doesn't mean the mov inside is functioning.

I won't open mine. Why don't you open your SurgeX?

TECHNOKID

digitalvideo wrote: »

I challenge anyone who owns a mov based surge protector to open it up and look inside and inspect the mov and it's current condition. Just because the outside power lights are on doesn't mean the mov inside is functioning.

I've asked you to provide un-biased and serious info on MOVs. Do you realize ZeroSurge is not un-biased but rather a competitive company that pushes similar products to APC, TripLite and other companies of the sort? http://www.zerosurge.com/sitemap.cfm Any and all companies can claim their product to be the best and some (like zero surge) will do so aggressively in order to discredit others. If you take seriously aggressive marketting claims from a company this is your choice, I much prefer to rely on true facts. Do you have some serious proven facts that can discredit the other comanies? If so, feel free to do so but you can forget providing me with companies marketting to discredit others.


This http://www.ucop.edu/riskmgt/bsas/safetymeetings/jul06/powerstripsafety.pdf is the type of serious article I would expect you provide if you want to convince me of your claim. BTW; note this article doesn't talk or warn against MOV.

digitalvideo

DMara wrote: »

I won't open mine.

Thanks for proving my point...you're too scared to find out.

DMara wrote: »

Why don't you open your SurgeX?

I have, I've not only opened my SurgeX I also opened my Panamax floor model and the quality between the two is pretty significant, one is made in China (Panamax) and the other made in the U.S.A (SurgeX)

Oh, and the mov inside the Panamax was compromised, it was weakened which pretty much means it's faulty, but even if it was in new condition it still would be sending surge energy from the hot to the neutral/ground which leads to ground contamination and common mode surges, that's downside of mov's, they don't eliminate surges they divert them to other areas and can still get inside your electronics. Mov's are only suppose to be used at the service entrance outside or at the breaker box as far away from the outlet that the electronics are plugged into.

Again, I need to make it clear that I am NOT a mov basher, I support and recommend mov's in certain specific areas like at the service entrance outside and breaker box where they're suppose to be. Companies like Eaton Cutler Hammer and Eaton Innovative Technology make excellent 'Whole House' surge protectors that use mov's to be installed in those areas. Advanced Series Mode surge protectors are designed to be used downstream at the wall outlet which eliminate the surge there.

digitalvideo

TECHNOKID wrote: »

I've asked you to provide un-biased and serious info on MOVs.

I did in my link above which is not a link from a company that sells surge protectors, it's a link to a independent source that tests surge protectors and reports the results and also uses references from UL.

Here is the link again:

http://www.djsociety.org/Surge_1.htm

Now how did I get that link? By doing research using Google which you can do too. All you need to do is type in any random search title, for example try: "Mov surge fail" or "Mov failure surge" or whatever and you will get many websites of independent test results. I avoid links that are from manufacturers that make products, I click only on independent consumer advocate websites and sources that do independent testing.

westom

TECHNOKID wrote: »

When I was in the military, we were using LOW priced radio shack single surge protector with no issue with the gear and no fire hazard.

Fires created by protectors from APC, Belkin, Tripplite, and other lesser names were so common that UL created 1449 about 1998. Three revisions required because grossly undersized protectors (with only hundreds or a thousand joules ? ie that Tripplite) were causing so many fires. Mil Standard 419 (what the military requires for surge protection) does not approve of that Radio Shack protector. But again, I am reporting hard facts. You tell us it cannot be because you even violated Mil Standards?

Grossly undersized protectors such must disconnect as fast as possible from a destructive surges. So that a house fire does not happen. Sometimes, a protector does not disconnect fast enough. A house or Boston apartment building caught fire:
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339

Firemen have seen this human safety threat often. A NC fire marshal describes why protectors such as that Tripplite power conditioner sometimes cause house fires - entitled "Surge Protector Fires":
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol

Whitneyd88 on 21 Mar 2011 in "My house caught on fire and my tank busted" describes how a surge protector caused his house fire. And how the resulting burst aquarium extinguished that fire:
> A plug caught fire in my room (which was plugged into a surge protecter)
> it was caused by a power surge and caused my tank to burst.

Norma on 27 Dec 2008 in "The Power Outage" describes a danger of power strip protectors:
> Today, the cable company came to replace a wire. Well the cable man pulled a
> wire and somehow yanked loose their "ground" wire. The granddaughter on the
> computer yelled and ran because sparks and smoke were coming from the power
> surge strip.

These protector creating fires is too common. Even a $4 power strip in Wal-Mart is safer. Anyone using grossly undersized protectors such as that Tripplite must earth a 'whole house' protector so that plug-in protectors do not cause rare house fires.

One who proveshe is smarter by posting insult and other personal attacks now tell us that those scam protectors do not cause fires? The pictures, examples, and a NC fire marshal says otherwise. But again, those are hard facts. And those facts must be wrong because Technokid and heiney9 will post more personal attacks.

Technokid has lied because he did not know. Plug-in protectors have been a reason for house fires. Earthing a 'whole house' protector or removing plug-in protectors are two proven solutions for averting fire.

Even a NC fire marshal says why those Tripplite, et al protectors have caused fires. This engineer has also seen those failures. One with a few generations of experience would know more - and does not routinely post insults to mask technical ignorance.

myke - heiney9 posted repeatedly without answering your 15 amp or 20 amp question. His every reply was insults and personal attacks so that you would forget he had no answer. He could not answer your question.

Grossly undersized protectors that would somehow make hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear also have a history of creating structure fires. As described by a NC fire marshal and other pictures. As this engineer has even seen. Technokid said those fires do not happen - while posting more insults. Worry about a grossly undersized Tripplite power conditioner that both recommended. Even the manufacturer does not claim to do what you asked for.

TECHNOKID

digitalvideo wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point...you're too scared to find out.



I have, I've not only opened my SurgeX I also opened my Panamax floor model and the quality between the two is pretty significant, one is made in China (Panamax) and the other made in the U.S.A (SurgeX)

Oh, and the mov inside the Panamax was compromised, it was weakened which pretty much means it's faulty, but even if it was in new condition it still would be sending surge energy from the hot to the neutral/ground which leads to ground contamination and common mode surges, that's downside of mov's, they don't eliminate surges they divert them to other areas and can still get inside your electronics. Mov's are only suppose to be used at the service entrance outside or at the breaker box as far away from the outlet that the electronics are plugged into.

Again, I need to make it clear that I am NOT a mov basher, I support and recommend mov's in certain specific areas like at the service entrance outside and breaker box where they're suppose to be. Companies like Eaton Cutler Hammer and Eaton Innovative Technology make excellent 'Whole House' surge protectors that use mov's to be installed in those areas. Advanced Series Mode surge protectors are designed to be used downstream at the wall outlet which eliminate the surge there.

From your provided link;

What you Need to know about MOVs
And perhaps what you wish you never knew...
(Information supplied by Zero Surge)

Zero Surge is a competitive manufaturer (http://www.zerosurge.com/aboutus.cfm)! :rolleyes:

digitalvideo

Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor

Wikipedia wrote:

The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) has documented many cases of catastrophic fires that have been caused by MOV devices in surge suppressors, and has issued bulletins on the issue.

cstmar01

Seriously again? Reported this crap is getting old quick.

TECHNOKID

You know MVOs have been used in a multitude of electronic equipment for many years (IE: TVs, voltmeters and much more). Let's stick to the old CRT TV which has been using this for as long as I know. They were used in the high voltage circuit and their mean was to degauss the CRT tube (typically many KVolts). On many occasions, I had to replace them and never was there any fire issue, the varistor would break rendering the circuit un-operational.

The issues and fires you are talking about can not be proven to be related to this specific component but rather to age, innappropriate use and lack of maintenance.

Here is an example of failure and the potential reason being lack of maintenance and replacement of inadequate aging product; http://news.boisestate.edu/update/2011/01/12/fire-hazard-from-surge-protected-power-strips/

You should immediately replace your surge protector if any of the following are evident:

■The surge protector is hot to the touch
■It shows signs of discoloration, soot, melting or burn marks
■The light is not illuminated when on ( if so equipped)
■The surge protector is beyond its useful life or appears to be an older model
The power strips involved in the fires were 12 years old and this could have been a factor.

Surge protectors and power strips are not designed to be plugged into one another. This practice is referred to as daisy chaining or piggy backing and may result in a fire or electrical shock hazard.

The article does NOT warn you to stay away from MOV and surge protectors but warns you to handle them in such a way that make sense.

Again, this link http://www.ivfire.com/index.php?view=article&catid=64%3Ainformation-for-businesses&id=165%3Apower-strip-surge-protector-information&option=com_content&Itemid=135 warns you, does not discourage you to use them but again points at common sense when using them.

digitalvideo

TECHNOKID wrote: »

You know MVOs have been used in a multitude of electronic equipment for many years (IE: TVs, voltmeters and much more). Let's stick to the old CRT TV which has been using this for as long as I know. They were used in the high voltage circuit and their mean was to degauss the CRT tube (typically many KVolts). On many occasions, I had to replace them and never was there any fire issue, the varistor would break rendering the circuit un-operational.

The issues and fires you are talking about can not be proven to be related to this specific component but rather to age, innappropriate use and lack of maintenance.

Here is an example of failure and the potential reason being lack of maintenance and replacement of inadequate aging product; http://news.boisestate.edu/update/2011/01/12/fire-hazard-from-surge-protected-power-strips/

You are wrong and there is many documented evidence of MOV's failing and causing fires, you can contact any Fire Department in the Continental U.S. and ask them for proof plus you can do any random Google search and find news stories of fires caused by mov based devices malfunctioning.

TECHNOKID wrote: »

The article does NOT warn you to stay away from MOV and surge protectors but warns you to handle them in such a way that make sense.

LOL! And companies that make fireworks does NOT warn you to stay away from fireworks but warns you to handle them in such a way that makes sense, same with gun makers, tobacco companies, car companies LOL! So your logic is thrown out the window, you lose. You have not yet been able to refute anything I have posted, you desperately try to find some source online that desperately tries to defend mov's but your source also hints at that they could possibly be dangerous "IF" handled improperly, well that's the thing, a mov installed inside a surge protector is being handled by the surge protector and not you so it's out of your hands where as a gun, cigarette, fireworks, car is controlled by your own input where as a MOV is at the mercy of the AC power line and the products own internal design which is inherently a flawed design to begin with.

LOL @ "Use common sense when using mov's" BWHAHAHAHA

Any product that requires such care of handling isn't a safe product and predictable product, the key word is: "Predictable." Nitroglycerin won't explode either if you're precisely delicate with it too. LOL And mov's are NOT predictable as the Wikipedia link above proves.

Organ State Fire Marshal warns of fire dangers of MOV's. "As more surges are diverted, the MOVs life span shortens, and failure becomes imminent. There is no forewarning or visual indications given - just failure. And while failing, they can reach very high temperatures, and actually start fires."

Fire Hazards of Surge Suppressors:

http://www.rbs2.com/fire.htm

In the late 1980s fire investigators became aware that surge suppressors could cause fires. Such knowledge resulted in fire departments often identifying surge suppressors as the cause of a fire. For example:
The University of Washington posted a webpage about the fire hazard of surge suppressors, which mentions that "two families on Bainbridge Island [in Puget Sound] lost their homes due to fires caused by Multiple Outlet Power Surge Suppressors" during the one year ending Feb 1995. Another copy is posted by the Bellingham, Washington fire department. This webpage has been summarized at the website of the safety office at the University of California at San Diego.


The U.S. Department of State issued a pamphlet in Sep 1998, titled Surge Suppressors Can Cause Fires after a varistor caused a $ 150,000 loss at the U.S. Embassy in Grenada and "a number of fires" elsewhere.


The U.S. Department of Energy's facility at Hanford posted a Lessons Learned with a photograph of a surge suppressor that "started a small fire" at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center on 28 Aug 1999.


In January 2003, an employee of the Greensport Yard in Houston arrived at work to find the office full of smoke from a burning surge suppressor, with a second surge suppressor of the same model hot and ready to burn. This incident is reported by the Environmental Health & Safety Office of New Mexico State University, and at ddxg.net. An Adobe PDF version of the report is available from a fire department in Pennsylvania.
These few webpages are just the "tip of the iceberg" of a much larger problem. Few people who have a burning surge suppressor post a webpage about the problem. Indeed, the true cause of many fires in homes and businesses is probably never identified, because ? after the fire ? everything is black and items in plastic enclosures are melted by the heat of the ensuing fire, making disassembly and diagnosis difficult.

The scope of this essay only includes surge suppressors used in the USA on single-phase nominal 120 V ac electric service, which is commonly used in homes and offices in the USA.

digitalvideo

I have provided far more links/sources to credible sources to back up my claims than you have, there really isn't anything else you can post that will make your case, you already made your case by admitting mov's can be dangerous if not handled properly and need a certain care when dealing with them which then takes into account a "risk factor" and "odds" of something happening which during a storm is NOT what you want to protect your home and electronics.

I provided studies from the U.S. Govt and also Fire Marshals and The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA).

You still have NOT addressed the issue of all the documented evidence of mov based surge protectors failing during storms and have been sent back to APC, Monster, Panamax, Triplite for repairs and for replacements...

By the way, contact APC, Monster, Panamax, Triplite and they will even tell you many customers have had to send their units back for repairs and replacements due to mov's failing. Talk to people who have worked for those companies and they will sit you down and explain to you the business practice. APC, Monster, Panamax, Triplite all have admitted their products suffered mov failures, they even mention it in their warranty, they admit mov's fail and have failed for them. That's why they replace so many units a year and are losing so much money due to replacing so many people's units before the warranty expires. I'm surprised these companies even make a profit, but they will because they're enough stubborn suckers like you who rather be loyal instead of smart and wise.