My first attempt at building a Server

Serendipity

So today I decided to build a small, basic server with the goal of managing my data, print jobs, network logons, and AntiVirus (I have Symantec Antivirus Enterprise edition, which can be managed over the network):

Motherboard: MSI G41 mATX
Processor: Intel Celeron Dual Core 2.4GHz
Optical: Toshiba DVD-ROM 16x
Memory: 2.0GB DDR3 non-ECC
Video: Onboard Intel Graphics X4500
Power Supply: Allied 300W mATX
LAN: Onboard Realtek Ethernet
FireWire: Pyro Digital Video 1394 Card
OS: Legal version of Windows Server 2008
RAID card

Everything was going smoothly until I plugged in the RAID card and attached the two PATA drives. I have a third, but I haven't installed it yet. What happens is the machine displays the RAID card startup screen, then never goes to the BIOS of the MSI motherboard. I can't press F1, F2, or DEL - or anything for that matter!

Anyone have any ideas what's up? Pics attached of the build.

wayne3burk

back in the day..... I built to computers based on MSI motherboards for AMD processors.

One for me and one for my daughter....

they lasted about 2 yrs before they eventually crapped out.

I think maybe MSI is crap

Serendipity

wayne3burk wrote: »

back in the day..... I built to computers based on MSI motherboards for AMD processors.

One for me and one for my daughter....

they lasted about 2 yrs before they eventually crapped out.

I think maybe MSI is crap

Could be, not sure why I can't get anything on the screen except a blinking cursor after the RAID card shows its POST display. I don't even see the MSI logo anymore, where I can press a key to get into the BIOS settings. I had spent the entire morning buliding the system and at one point had been able to get into the BIOS, but not anymore.

Serendipity

Ok, so after hours of frustration and not getting anywhere, I swapped the RAID card and the 1394 (FireWire) card and the system started up! Apparently the RAID card didn't like being on PCI # 2 and wanted priority for some strange reason.

Now I need to install an OS, but there are no drivers for the RAID card (Windows doesn't see the HDDs, but the BIOS sees the 3 drives).

Is there any way to get drivers into the system before the OS install phase?

Thanks!

disneyjoe7

That picture reminds of a Computer HTPC style one 160g boot sada, 4 1.5tb sata drives in a Raid 5 setup. The Raid in a HTPC didn't work as well because it cause video to jump and bit up some at times. But all in all looked wild with 5 drives.

Serendipity

I just got this working. This setup is AWESOME!

Basically, the RAID card needed to have its firmware updated before the computer could see the card. However, the only way to update the firmware was via a flash tool using the DOS prompt!:eek:

Not knowing any DOS commands, I read up on changing the directory using the cd... commands to go to the directory of the firmware update .exe file, ran that firmware update, and voila - Windows installer recognized the card!

So my lack of knowledge with MS-DOS and running a command prompt firmware update tool was what got me into this roadblock... for now.

Now that Windows has installed (and it installed BLAZINGLY fast), I have FOUR hard drives available to use!

EndersShadow

hardforum.com is a great resource for computer related questions and problems in case you have problems again. They have a dedicated server section

Serendipity

Thanks, most of the issues I had were not knowing what to do and when.

Now that I have the RAID software installed, and the card has the latest firmware update, everything seems to be running smoothly!!!

nadams

Do you actually have the drives configured in a RAID array, or do you just have them all plugged into the card. The reason I ask is because you say you "have four hard drives available to use". If the drives are properly configured in RAID, you should only see one drive letter (maybe two, if you have a standalone OS drive). If they're not actually RAIDed, you're not seeing any performance or redundancy advantages.

Serendipity

I see four drive letters, can you explain where I went wrong?

I was able to format each of the individual drives separately.

nadams

Just looked at the pictures again. You've got 3 drives. One SATA (which I'm assuming is your primary OS drive), and two PATA. The two PATA drives you have are on the same chain, which, IIRC would not be able to be configured in RAID. In order to do PATA RAID, the drives have to be the only device on the cable.

So, it looks like you're just running a bunch of disks (and dissimilar ones at that), so you could've negated all the trouble with the RAID card by just using onboard IDE.

Serendipity

Ok, I'll admit this is the first time I am doing this so I have no idea what is wrong.

I added a fourth drive, with the second ribbon cable plugged into the card. This is an identical drive to the top drive, as I purchased both of them together.

With the RAID software installed (its running in the clock / taskbar), I see the 3 PATA drives.

nadams

Yes, you would see all the drives individually. But this is not having them set up in RAID.

Wikipedia can explain the different types of RAID better than I - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

What's the model number of the card you have? It's possible that it's not even a RAID controller, but rather just a plain jane hard drive controller.

Serendipity

It's a Silicon Image SiI0680A.

There is a jumper on the card that says "RAID enable" or something like that. I have to remove the card to look at it again. The jumper should be in the right configuration.

I wanted to use the drives as redundancy so if one fails, the other will still have my data.

nadams

For redundancy, you want to use a RAID1 configuration in this case. The two drives are different. Are they the same size? They should really be the same model of drive for use in RAID.

Serendipity

Yes, I put in a fourth drive which is not shown in the pix which is the same as the top PATA drive.

At this point I am seriously thinking about going with a prebuilt Dell PowerEdge server as this was more trouble than I thought it would be...

nadams

Well, if you want to use RAID 1, you should use the two identical drives. Set them both as master, and put them on the two separate channels of the RAID card. Enter the BIOS of the RAID card (not the PC BIOS). There should be an option to create a new RAID set, and then a new Mirrored set. Use auto configuration settings, and it will ask you your primary and secondary drives (which should be 0 and 1), and then it creates the array. Then you need to boot into Windows and format the new drive set to be able to use it.

It will show up as a single drive letter, and the capacity will be that of a single drive in the set. (You'll still have your standalone SATA drive as "C:") The RAID controller handles the data duplication on the back end, but obviously only the data that you put in the RAID drive letter will be duplicated. If you want EVERYTHING duplicated (IE- OS, applications, etc), then you need to install Windows to the RAID set, not to the single SATA drive.

Use this as a learning experience to figure out how RAID works. Do some reading... crack open the manual that came with the card (or go download it off SIL's website), and get your learn on. If you run out and buy a poweredge server, you're still going to have to configure RAID sets...

Serendipity

I am starting to think that the jumpers on the back of the drives are set wrong?

You mentioned that for PATA raid, only 1 drive per cable can be used for RAID.

I have one drive set as "Master" and another as "Slave" on the black cable, and the single Maxtor drive on the gray cable set as "Cable Select." I think this is making it look for another drive. How do I set the lone Maxtor drive to "Single"?

Edit: If the lone drive is set to Master, the machine hangs at boot. Maybe no jumper at all = Single?

Serendipity

Finally got it. Nowhere on the drive did it say that removing the jumper = Single Drive, but that's what it took to get this to work. Now I got into the RAID card's BIOS, and it has a bunch of options (labeled 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.) to create a RAID array and mirror the drives.

I have to get my read on - the manual that came with the card is still in the box!

Also have to install the driver CD that came with the motherboard - graphics is funky.

txcoastal1

Please let us know how many and what size and model drives you have for each drive...plus do you intend to have an OS drive only...maybe we can help

Cheers

Serendipity

Thanks for all the help, the drives are the following:

Single WD2500JS-75NCB3
Single Samsung SP0842N
(2) Maxtor 4D040H2

txcoastal1

You really only have 1 option since the drives are not the same size...your single WD as an OS and RAID 1 (mirror) with maxtors this would only give you 40gigs of storage.

Raid 5 requires 3 or more drive but you give up storage capacity of one drive because it becomes a Parity

Serendipity

That's fine, it's all Word documents anyways that need to be backed up...

I don't need that much storage just reliability. If the need increases I can always throw in larger drives later.

Serendipity

These drives were relatively cheap so I may be better off with new(er) drives.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0345153
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0355468

The 40gig was the cheapest PATA I could find and the 250gig was the most basic SATA drive.

nadams

If you need reliability, I'd dump the Maxtor drives.

Serendipity

I'm trying to add another drive... this one uses the regular (ATA) power connector but all I have left are SATA power connectors.

Can I cut off the power supply's SATA power connector and put on a regular power cable salvaged from a dumpster PC? This is the power cable I am trying to solder on after I cut the SATA connector off:

There are two black wires - I take it both are interchangeable?

See pic. Thanks!

Sherardp

Yes you should be able to wire it in yourself.

Serendipity

Thank you sooooooo much... you are a life saver!

BeefJerky

Or, you could just get a Y adapter and split off of another power connector.
http://www.frys.com/product/4586747?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Serendipity

Yes, but I would think that by splitting off another (already used) power connector, the power supply would be loaded unevenly vs. cutting off an unused SATA power connector and changing the end to a regular ATA power connector. (This is what I am doing)

Unless the power supply's internal SATA and ATA power rails are wired together... who knows...

BeefJerky

Most power supplies have a single rail for each voltage. Some of the higher wattage ones will have more than one rail, but if so, it would be shown on the sticker where the PSU's current ratings are. Even so, loading them unevenly isn't a problem. As long as you don't go over the current rating of a particular rail, you are fine.