Plinths, when to use

EndersShadow

So here's the deal. I just went in on Brass spikes group buy for my LSi 15?s.

I have on occasion seen folks put their speakers on plinths of wood, granite, tile ect. I am wondering what situations warrant their use. I believe their goal is to couple the speaker to the floor and help with bass (please correct me if I am wrong) Currently my apartment is carpet over a concrete slab.

I will have an extra set of spikes and I just got a quick quote from a friend whose company sells granite that it would be about ~100 for 2 pieces of 10x14 black granite (which I would then figure out a way to spike if needed).

So please let?s talk about when and why you would use a plinth, what materials are best for what situations, to spike or not to spike.

Looking forward to learning something today :biggrin:

Joe08867

I used Granite for an Amp once. I usually just use spikes or spikes with the cups for hardwood floors and such.

steveinaz

I like using tile as a plinth when there is carpeting in the room.

EndersShadow

steveinaz wrote: »

I like using tile as a plinth when there is carpeting in the room.

Besides probably being cheaper, is it better or worse than something like granite?

Also I assume you dont spike it, just lay it directly on the carpet?

steveinaz

I don't know for sure, but I would suspect the denser the material, the better. I doubt in the grand scheme of things that it makes much difference. I lay an 18" x 18" tile down on the carpet, and then spike the speakers (or stand) to the tile with brass cone "footers." You have to do a little measuring/calculating so that the speakers end up relatively centered on the tiles when they are in the position you want them.

Here's a pic, note that I have the tile canted to match the toe-in of the speaker:

Joe08867

On Carpet I use longer spikes. Never thought of using a plinth on carpet.

How does a plinth help couple the speakers to the floor on Carpet?

EndersShadow

Joe08867 wrote: »

On Carpet I use longer spikes. Never thought of using a plinth on carpet.

How does a plinth help couple the speakers to the floor on Carpet?

My thought was due to pure mass (i.e granite block), but I could be way off here

steveinaz

I do it mostly for a more stable platform, and it adds about an inch of height. It also seems to tighten bass response and midrange clarity.

It's a cheap experiment (maybe $8 bucks?), go get you 2 tiles of the right size and color you want, and try it out.

EndersShadow

steveinaz wrote: »

I do it mostly for a more stable platform, and it adds about an inch of height. It also seems to tighten bass response and midrange clarity.

It's a cheap experiment (maybe $8 bucks?), go get you 2 tiles of the right size and color you want, and try it out.

Might do that this weekend, and then if that sounds good maybe get some granite ones just for the hell of it. :biggrin:

BlueFox

Always use maple, and, ideally, every piece of gear should be brass footers on a maple plinth.


I have my two-channel speakers on a 4" maple plinth with brass carpet piercing footers, and it really increased the detail and resolution. The rest of the gear is on my late 1980s AV rack (fake wood), but everything is on brass micropoint footers. As each piece of gear was put on the footers, the sound just became clearer, and clearer. I was amazed at how much vibration colors the sound, and when it is eliminated the sound is so much better.

I have not bought any new gear in a couple of years, but between cable upgrades, and vibration control, it is like having a brand new, and much better, two channel system.

If there is anyone who knows how to tweak every bit of sound from your gear, it is Mapleshade.

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Maple-Platforms/departments/46/
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Speaker-Stands/departments/60/
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Brass-Footers/departments/96/

EndersShadow

BlueFox wrote: »

Always use maple, and, ideally, every piece of gear should be brass footers on a maple plinth.

Why ONLY maple and not other materials? Just curious.

Also the mapleshades are quite a bit more expensive than what I was looking for. Hell I could probably get a piece of wood and build one myself for that price (hence asking why that one material ONLY)

BlueFox

EndersShadow wrote: »

Why ONLY maple and not other materials? Just curious.

Also the mapleshades are quite a bit more expensive than what I was looking for. Hell I could probably get a piece of wood and build one myself for that price (hence asking why that one material ONLY)

Because, as they said, they compared all the different materials and found maple works best. If granite worked better they would be selling granite. So far, everything I have bought from them did what they say. That doesn't mean there are not alternatives, but it does mean there is an element of truth to their claims. As with anything, you get what you pay for. If your time and labor is free then go for it.

You can get maple carving boards on Amazon for a lot less than Mapleshade, but I would certainly add the brass footers.

Tbone289

I use a heavy, thick flagstone slab under my sub. The vibrations of the sub were causing my laminate floor to basically become a large transducer, muddying the bass considerably. Adding the solid base tightened up the low end noticeably. I haven't added spikes yet, but I plan on it for further improvement.

Joe08867

Having played drums for most of my life I can answer some of the Maple question.

It transfers energy more neutrally than most woods and does not add much if any to the tone of the sound. As a comparison. Birch would be quicker for sound transfer but it adds punch and has a deeper resonance, and harder woods like Bubinga would add a less punch but may introduce lower frequency rumble to the sound.

As far as woods go Maple is pretty much neutral. That is why most drum manufacturers use it for the shells.

EndersShadow

So how would granite do instead of maple or birch?

EndersShadow

Tbone289 wrote: »

I use a heavy, thick flagstone slab under my sub. The vibrations of the sub were causing my laminate floor to basically become a large transducer, muddying the bass considerably. Adding the solid base tightened up the low end noticeably. I haven't added spikes yet, but I plan on it for further improvement.

I got a gramma sub isolation platform for mine that seems to have worked quite well.

Joe08867

I could only imagine Granite, Marble or Ceramic Tile would have better properties than any wood.

BlueFox

EndersShadow wrote: »

So how would granite do instead of maple or birch?

I guess you did not read the link I posted. Of course, then again, neither did I, or I would not have suggested Amazon carving blocks. :biggrin:

Mounting your gear, amp, CD player, music server, turntable, etc. on a really good platform transforms the sound. Surprisingly, maple platforms are much warmer, clearer, punchier and more detailed than granite, slate, glass (the worst), myrtle or exotic hardwoods, or any of the hi-tech damped composites based on 20 years of my painstaking, head-to head listening experiments. Adding brass footers to drain vibration out of your gear into the maple doubles the good effect.

Maple's superiority over all other woods is old news to every violin and piano maker since Stradivarius and Steinway. Instrument makers taught me to NEVER use commercial, kiln dried wood. As my listening confirmed, the kiln's high heat seriously deadens the maple's good sound. Butcher block is another step worse.

EndersShadow

BlueFox wrote: »

I guess you did not read the link I posted. Of course, then again, neither did I, or I would not have suggested Amazon carving blocks. :biggrin:

I did read them, but was hoping for some additional links to where his data was on them which wasn't there.

Again, not saying he's wrong, just wanted to see his data as I like to draw my own conclusions.

My thought was if the intent of the plinth was to couple the item to the floor to reduce vibrations then the more mass the better.

Oh well gonna hold onto my 100 dollar quote for a set of 2 black polished granite plinths and maybe think about getting them at a later date.

For now I think just putting spikes on my LSi 15's should couple them to the concrete slab underneath and I should be fine. I would be doing more research if I was on a wood sub-floor but I am not.

BlueFox

EndersShadow wrote: »

Again, not saying he's wrong, just wanted to see his data as I like to draw my own conclusions.

This is his data.

...based on 20 years of my painstaking, head-to head listening experiments.

So far, everything I have bought from them has performed as advertised. YMMV.

Joe08867

I prefer more than one suggestion. Everything you are saying BlueFox sounds good but it goes against everything I have ever heard. And is suspect to me when the guy doing the suggestion also sells the item we speak of.

For coupling one item to another the most solid connection is usually the best. Wood isn't as solid as rock unless it is petrified.

Plus I would not want something adding warmth to the sound of my speakers. I want them to do that or it is artifact and not accurate to the sound of the speaker.

Again, I believe you when you say the guy has never steered you wrong but this seems suspect to me.

steveinaz

I think quite a few of mapleshades' "tweaks" are a little far fetched, and the adjectives used a wee bit lofty. I'd never put a bookshelf speaker on the floor, angled up--but they claim "it will transform your system." Of course it will. :rolleyes::biggrin:

I do have some mapleshade cone feet and heavy hats, and they work well with transports.

EndersShadow

Done a bit of reading and it appears that the wood is more flexible/porus than granite (which makes sense as its not as dense. As a result it is more likely to absorb vibrations than stone. So it appears it might be better to use wood as it helps further isolate vibrations since it doenst pass as many of them to the floor, but rather absorbs them internally. I believe however it all may depend on what your subfloor/floor is made of. A concrete pad is much less likely to vibrate than a wood floor. So the material you use as a plinth may vary based on your flooring.

Overall though it appears that what you want to do is increase the weight of the item at its point of contact. So rather than putting a loudspeaker on the floor (where the weight is dispersed across the entire base of the platform) you put it on spikes which takes all that weight to 4 small points, increasing the overall lbs per inch load for those 4 points. Due to the weight increase at the point of contact, it increases the amount of energy needed to move/vibrate the item.

So taking this thought to plinths, I would think that if you took a product like granite which is quite dense and heavy, and spiked it (which takes all its weight and distributes it to 4 points) and then put your speaker (with spikes or without) on top, you are greatly increasing the lbs per inch at the contact point with the floor. Similar to why you add lead shot or sand to your speaker stands.

As a result you would better couple the item to the floor (in my case concrete) and because of how little surface area is in contact with the floor, you greatly increase the amount of energy needed to vibrate the item, which should result in less vibrations.

Hell for ~100 bucks I might just get a set of granite plinths for my setup just for the hell. Looks good if nothing else lol....

We will see....