Rti A7/A9 choice based on current amp

jaysmackie

Hi folks, I am looking at a speaker upgrade and since the current threads don't answer exactly my question I'll start a new one.

I am thinking of using a marantz sr7300 6.1 amp I have to just push 2 channels bi-amped, see if I like what I hear. If it does good things I may use the remaining 2 channels to push a centre channel.

At this stage I am not looking at an amp upgrade. This option appeals to me. The amp may end up getting sold but I want to give this a try to satisfy my curiousity.

It will give me 4 channels 105W/8ohm, 130W/6ohm, not a 4ohm amp unfortunately, so LSi are not an option.

Is 105W x 4 going to be enough to get good value out of RTi A9s, or should I go for well powered A7s?

cheers
jays

Sledgehammer462

Your amp is better suited for the A7's BUT those A9's sure are perty!!!!!! I'm pushing the A9's nicely with 140W...BUT I'm eyeballing a few amps now to get the most out of the 9's...You'd be better off getting the 9's and start shopping for a new amp...

tonyb

I'll second the A9's. but I'd forget about that funky bi-amp idea since it's not really bi-amping. Just hook them straight up and keep the volume respectable until you can feed them some good power.

jaysmackie

Well I am looking for an excuse to jusyify the A9s, no point kidding myself. But buying them will certainly delay the amp upgrade a while. I have the sr7300 as I was more toward HT for a while, but I have been gravitating back to music on 2Ch (or 3Ch for dialog heavy movies) so I have a few channels going unused on the amp now.

I was just concerned a single channel of 105W to each speaker would not give them enough. Something as pretty as an A9 deserve to be well fed.

PrazVT

I would expect that to get the most out of the A7s or A9s, you'd want a high current amp powering them. Initially, I powered my A7s with a Yamaha receiver (95wpc) and then with a Denon receiver (125wpc) and they sounded fine. But adding a more powerful amplifier improved SQ and bass response, as well as the ability to crank the speakers on occasion. In the long run, if you choose the A7s and especially the A9s, you should plan on adding a dedicated power amp at some point.

If my apt wasn't so small, I'd have gone with A9s as well

SRTer

I have both the RTi A9's and RTi A7's on a Pioneer Elite SC-35. I have found the 135 x 5 bench tested watts was just fine enough to shake the house.

If you have a AVR with similar power, you should be fine. The amp you have would defiantly be better suited for the RTi A7's. I really don't think you are going to have a regret with that setup for a while.

However, due to the constant prodding on the board to amp the RTi A9's, I have a amp coming this Monday. Then I will have a review for you.

I will know for sure that the amp is better and just by how much. With a 500 watt rating, one automatically feels they are underpowering the RTi A9's.

Also, I would not feel to bad about not getting RTi A9's and get RTi A7's for I believe they are not much different in sound where one is horrible and the other great.

fokakis1

I was faced with a similar decision recently. I started with the $ to upgrade speakers, but not enough to upgrade/add a new amp. I went with the A9's and powered them with a Harman Kardon AVR @70wpc (the 100+wpc Pioneer and Kenwood amps are now in the closet as they are seemingly less powerful). I can tell that these speakers can handle a lot more power, but they sound absolutely incredible with only 70W (bi-wired). They move a LOT of air in the lows and mids, and I disable my 12" sub for 2 ch. stereo as it is not needed. These things shake the entire house! No regrets with the A9's, even with low power.

PrazVT

I will know for sure that the amp is better and just by how much. With a 500 watt rating, one automatically feels they are underpowering the RTi A9's.

Again, it's less about the wattage than the current. fokakis1's HK feels more powerful than his other amps because those 70watts are probably higher current / quality than the others. And apparently HKs ratings are realistic.

Similarly, the SC Pioneers seems to have better amp sections for driving all speakers than competing avrs. I spent a good $1200 on my Denon 3311ci. Feature-wise, it kicks ****. But I found its 125wpc a bit underwhelming.

Anyway, like most things you hear about on CP, you won't know until you try it - and you're trying it, so do let us know if it improved your experience

Danielj820

Sorry to post this in a random thread, but how can I get permission to create a new thread to ask a question? If I cant, is it possible for me to post it here and have another member post it for me and link to the page? thank you

PrazVT

There's a Forum Testing Area you should use to check stuff like this. So you're not seeing a 'Post New Thread' link at the top left? Worst case, you may want to PM a mod (ex. Kenneth Swauger or dorkusai).

SRTer

fokakis1 wrote: »

I was faced with a similar decision recently. I started with the $ to upgrade speakers, but not enough to upgrade/add a new amp. I went with the A9's and powered them with a Harman Kardon AVR @70wpc (the 100+wpc Pioneer and Kenwood amps are now in the closet as they are seemingly less powerful). I can tell that these speakers can handle a lot more power, but they sound absolutely incredible with only 70W (bi-wired). They move a LOT of air in the lows and mids, and I disable my 12" sub for 2 ch. stereo as it is not needed. These things shake the entire house! No regrets with the A9's, even with low power.

Question, which Pioneer do you have that didn't do a decent job? I had a H/K AVR254 on a four RTi8's and a CSi A6 with 50 watt rating. It really didn't do a good job. Then I bought a Pioneer Elite VXS-23 which totally ruin my budget. That AVR made me want even more Pio Elite goodness.

Now, if you have a non-Elite Pio, I could understand the lack of power.

Also, I run my RTi A9's full range all the time. For 2-channel, I don't run the powered sub. To tell the truth, I don't run the sub unless someone visits or I looking at something special in Dolby Digital HD or DTS Master Audio.

SRTer

PrazVT wrote: »

Again, it's less about the wattage than the current. fokakis1's HK feels more powerful than his other amps because those 70watts are probably higher current / quality than the others. And apparently HKs ratings are realistic.

Similarly, the SC Pioneers seems to have better amp sections for driving all speakers than competing avrs. I spent a good $1200 on my Denon 3311ci. Feature-wise, it kicks ****. But I found its 125wpc a bit underwhelming.

Anyway, like most things you hear about on CP, you won't know until you try it - and you're trying it, so do let us know if it improved your experience

Well, I will let you know. The Adcom will be here Monday and it is high current.

fokakis1

SRTer wrote: »

Question, which Pioneer do you have that didn't do a decent job? I had a H/K AVR254 on a four RTi8's and a CSi A6 with 50 watt rating. It really didn't do a good job. Then I bought a Pioneer Elite VXS-23 which totally ruin my budget. That AVR made me want even more Pio Elite goodness.

Now, if you have a non-Elite Pio, I could understand the lack of power.

Also, I run my RTi A9's full range all the time. For 2-channel, I don't run the powered sub. To tell the truth, I don't run the sub unless someone visits or I looking at something special in Dolby Digital HD or DTS Master Audio.

Pioneer vsx-811s (non-elite, 100Wx7). The HK seems to have better control over the speakers. I'm sure that you are well pleased with your XVS pumping out more than twice the power.

tonyb

HK'S have a more accurate power rating than some others, but the Pioneer elites are in a different ballpark than their siblings. There is no way a non-elite avr is pumping out 100 watts into 7 channels, more like 30.
Regardless, the better power you feed a speaker, the better it will sound. Notice I didn't say watts, it's all about current my friend, which is why a seperate amp can deliver the goods better than your run of the mill avr.

SRTer

PrazVT wrote: »

Anyway, like most things you hear about on CP, you won't know until you try it - and you're trying it, so do let us know if it improved your experience

Hey man, the post is up. You said to let you all know.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123202

PrazVT

Cool I'll check it out

jaysmackie

Ok, to finish off this thread with an amp question. The Rotel RB-1552, it is class AB 120W, is it good quality watts or marketing watts? Been a while since I have been watching Rotel as a brand.
I might go track one down for a listen. I'll probably end up coming home with a RB-1582 anyway if it is any good, but we start with good intentions of not blowing the budget.

cheers
jays

ajiva

I'm in the same boat, I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver (110watt) and I'm deciding between the RTi A7 or the RTi A9. For now I'd go just with the two for a home theater setup but eventually upgrade to the full 5.1 setup. Thoughts? Is an AMP absolutely required for the A9s?

EDUBAG

well, from my experience i bought the rtia7 because, well because i did not know any better, i love them i mean love them and what they are capable of, however always wonder how the 9's would sound compared to them.

if it was me i would buy the 9's and never look back and later on get a decent amp, the rotel one i have is a great amp for the rtia line with plenty of power.

note that i have a pio elite and even though it is nice, it cannot compare to the rotel. at least not on my system.

good luck and regards,

eduardo

tonyb

ajiva wrote: »

I'm in the same boat, I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver (110watt) and I'm deciding between the RTi A7 or the RTi A9. For now I'd go just with the two for a home theater setup but eventually upgrade to the full 5.1 setup. Thoughts? Is an AMP absolutely required for the A9s?

The question should be....Why would you fork out the coin for a speaker of that quality and not use it to it's full potential ?

SRTer

ajiva wrote: »

I'm in the same boat, I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver (110watt) and I'm deciding between the RTi A7 or the RTi A9. For now I'd go just with the two for a home theater setup but eventually upgrade to the full 5.1 setup. Thoughts? Is an AMP absolutely required for the A9s?

Do RTi A9's absolutely need a amp? No, bit to sound thier best, yes. Specifically in your case, your SR7002 mostlikely not produce a 90 watts in a 5.1 channel setup. Therefore, a amp is "highly suggested" but is not totally necessary because one can power the RTi A with just a AVR because of their 8 ohm and 90dB sensitivity rating.

I would suggest that you get the RTi A7's if your not wanting to get a amp out of the two choices. Even better for just your AVR powering the speakers is the RTi A5's with nice sub. You will get the best bang for you buck out of this setup. I had ran a similar setup with four RTi8's.

I have ran RTi A9's and RTi A7's on a AVR with great results. However, it was a Pioneer Elite SC-35 which is much more powerful than the SR7002. I could have left I the system alone but I have a little extra money, so...

Got a amp now.

Lietuvis91

The sr7002 is good for 110w/ch with all channels driven. This receiver is similar to the pio sc line in that it has "discrete" amps for each channel so it delivers rated power to ALL channels. That said, you will still likely want more power for the A9s, but will prbably get by ok until you save up some money for an external amp.

The concept here is pretty simple:

BIG speakers need BIG power to sound their BEST. There are no shortcuts to this, unless mediocre is fine for you.

cstmar01

You don't have to have an amp to run A9's however they will normally sound their best when using one. I've been running the A9's off a SC05 AVR and worked just fine but still got a Parasound HCA2200 which does improve when pushing them for 2 channel and when running harder for HT.

Save up for what you want vs buying one and then having to upgrade in a year or so.

SRTer

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

The sr7002 is good for 110w/ch with all channels driven. This receiver is similar to the pio sc line in that it has "discrete" amps for each channel so it delivers rated power to ALL channels. That said, you will still likely want more power for the A9s, but will prbably get by ok until you save up some money for an external amp.

The concept here is pretty simple:

BIG speakers need BIG power to sound their BEST. There are no shortcuts to this, unless mediocre is fine for you.

Sorry, the Maranz SR7002 Is not like the Pioneer Elite SC models in terms of power. If Home Theater Mag is trusted in your eyes, you will find that they did test of the SR7005 which is the better of the two with the same power spec.

I think it posted 91 watts in 5 channel while spec says 110 watts. which is nothing like the SC-37 making 135 watt in 5 channel while rated 140 watts in
spec.

The SC something else, I truly love it.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-sr7005-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Just saying, not trying to be ignorant.

Lietuvis91

SRTer:

I'm not sure where you are going with your comment. The marantz sr7002 uses discrete amps for individial channels just like the pio sc series, which means that neither avr sees a significant drop in power per channel as you add more channels. This cannot be said for just about most other avrs out there. So, yes, in that respect, the two designs are similar, and no, they are not rated for same power... if that was your point...

SRTer

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

SRTer:

I'm not sure where you are going with your comment. The marantz sr7002 uses discrete amps for individial channels just like the pio sc series, which means that neither avr sees a significant drop in power per channel as you add more channels. This cannot be said for just about most other avrs out there. So, yes, in that respect, the two designs are similar, and no, they are not rated for same power... if that was your point...

Design is not the point, how much power lost in multi channel modes is the point. This is where the two AVR's differ. It not how much they where rated that I'm showing you.

It how much power is losted in multi channel mode which is where the SC's shine. Lose 19 watts on 5 channel per channel in the Marantz and only 5 watts lost in the same mode on the SC.

The real point here is the OP needs to consider a amp for a set of RTi A9's because he will mostlikely not have more than 90 watts to power those speakers. The RTi A7's would do a bit better with the SR7002 AVR.

Honestly, both the RTi A7 and A9 could use a amp.

jbooker82

Hell after having an amp I would probably use one on a pair of RTI A1's if they were my mains.

Lietuvis91

I think everyone here is in agreement that the op needs to budget in an amp.

As for the pio vs marantz comparison, seeing test numbers is nice, but I can tell you for sure that the sr7002 beats the pants off of my onkyo 608, and they are both rated for 110w/ch. Maybe it has to do with delivered current and not just watts, I don't know. If you understand the difference in design between these 2 avrs, then you can understand why one can outperform the other. The marantz has the benefit of being designed like the pio sc, so in the op's case it is not a complete crap shoot, even though it obviously is no match for a dedicated amp.

SRTer

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

I think everyone here is in agreement that the op needs to budget in an amp.

As for the pio vs marantz comparison, seeing test numbers is nice, but I can tell you for sure that the sr7002 beats the pants off of my onkyo 608, and they are both rated for 110w/ch. Maybe it has to do with delivered current and not just watts, I don't know. If you understand the difference in design between these 2 avrs, then you can understand why one can outperform the other. The marantz has the benefit of being designed like the pio sc, so in the op's case it is not a complete crap shoot, even though it obviously is no match for a dedicated amp.

So true, I know he will have a nice great HT system since he is taking his time to build it.

ajiva

Thanks everyone, yes I may eventually get an AMP but for now my budget is limited. I suppose it's always easier to add more power, but it's harder to upgrade speakers once bought (craigslist and what not).

Lietuvis91

ajiva wrote: »

Thanks everyone, yes I may eventually get an AMP but for now my budget is limited. I suppose it's always easier to add more power, but it's harder to upgrade speakers once bought (craigslist and what not).

Especially heavy floorstanders that are expensive to ship. So I agree, get the speaker you want and then work on getting an amp.

With the sr7002, bi-amping does make a difference in sound quality (not to say it will blow you away by any means). If you look at the manual you will see there is a specific way to employ unused power from rear channels, there is even a physical switch on the back of this receiver to make this work. Like I said, don't expect it to blow u away, but you will see an improvement non-the-less