Should I get this B&K receiver?

bigsexy1

I can get an old ('98/'99 vintage) B&K AVR101 receiver for dirt cheap, that works fine. It only has DD 5.1 though. However, there is a B&K factory upgrade for $999 plus 2 way shipping charges to and from the factory that will in effect make it equivalent to the same as the 505/507 receivers and Reference 50 pre/pro in it's processing ability and features. It will then have PL2, DTS, DTS ES, DD EX, THX Ultra 2, etc. This info came from a call to B&K customer service. The only thing, it still would not have any component video switching capabilities whatsoever, and it would still have only 5 powered amp channels (thus requiring the use of another seperate 2 channel power amp to get full on 6.1/7.1 sound), but neither of those 2 factors would be a potential deal breaker to me. I do have some amps I could use for mains, and simply let the B&K's internal amps power the center and all surround channels. I did some research, and it was identical to the 202 receiver, the only difference being that the 202 had DTS and the 101 didn't. I also found a very glowing review of the 202 at www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_1/b&k-avr-202-receiver-3-2000.html .

What do you guys and gals think? Should I go for it, or would I be better served just to look into getting a new receiver for when the time comes that I replace my 3802? Figure that total cost for me would be less than $1100 out of pocket since I have something I could trade for it. Could I posibly do any better on a new receiver with that kind of money (Denon 3803, HK 7200, NAD, Rotel, etc.)?

criverajr

I say only because I have one is Rotel RSX-1055 will not I say will not disappoint. Can be had for around the same price brand new, and with your existing amps would serve you fine, but then again your denon seems to be a fine machine. Get out there and listen to the rotel will drive 4ohm speakers with easy.

CRj

dorokusai

I say go for it, the upgrade will bring you into the new world...and the B&K is always upgradable for even more future. I wouldn't sweat the small stuff, get another amp later for your mains. Buy the B&K, be different.

bikezappa

I would go for the B&K. You should try it out for a few months and see if you like it then maybe get the modifications or up grades. I lusted for B&K stuff for years and finally got a Ref 10 for 2 channel listening with an Adcom power amp and SDA SRS 1.2. Maybe its me but the B&K set up and the remote drives me nuts. The sound is nice however.

Be carefull, you might get what you want, and hate it.

brettw22

I have a B&K AVR307, which I got for like $1600 used. If the component video outs are a big thing and you want to use it for a while, I'd get the 307 and think about the upgrade. The upgrade costs on the 307 are $498. Depending on your other sources, and how many speakers you're running, you might not even need the extra processing capabilities other than DD, DTS, and Pro Logic. I dont' watch video tapes, so PL2 is useless, I don't have a rear center, so DTS ES (or is it DD EX?) is no good. I haven't found a reason for me to send the 307 into them to upgrade to something that I'm not even going to use. Here's one on Audiogon for just under $1500:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?miscrcvr&1068904326

The other obvious benefits of going the 307 route is that you're getting 50% more power than what you'd be getting if you went the 101 route (150wpc vs. 105wpc), plus it'd be all 7 channels vs. just the 5, eliminating the potential hassle of putting an extra amp into the mix where you would end up mixing sonic characteristics between your channels. ((BREATHE)) Good luck.......

bigsexy1

Thanks for the replys everyone, and thanks for your cordial reply Brett. I do use 7.1, so I would need the extra 2 channels. The cost of that 307 would still be $500 more than the upgrade to the 101, and that's without the upgrade to the 307 itself. So that would make it about $1000 more out of pocket. Component video switching is nice, but I could live without it just the same. As for the extra power, it would also be nice, but it really wouldn't be dramatic. I figure about 1.5 dbs louder at any given volume setting with the 307 as opposed to the 101 (which would then be renamed the 212 after the upgrade for some reason). You do have a good point about the extra amp though. I do have a Harman Kardon PA 2000 power amp, which can drive 100 watts per channel X 2. Do you all think that would match up pretty close sonically with the B&K 101?
Anyways, it's a done deal. I think I'm going to go ahead and do it. However, I would have to give up my 3802 to make it happen. Should I still do it? I'm thinking yes.

dave shepard

Just seen on ebay a denon 5803 NIB with the reserve met already at $1200. Looks like one hell of a reciever.

Thought you would like to know, Dave

brettw22

The renumbering of the receivers is something that happens when they upgrade. I thought that you were going to be buying a 101, not a 202 (the 202 was just what the review was about). If you're buying the 101, the model would change to 111, the middle number being a revision number basically (the 202 becomes, the 212, 307 becomes the 317, etc.). I skimmed through the review that you linked to, but didn't see that they specified all the types of connections were on the back of it. I don't know how long term you're looking for this to fix ya for, but if it's a long term thing, and it doesn't have the component connections or at least the 6.1 analog for DVD-A or SACD, then it might not be a worthwhile upgrade right now. Granted, that totally depends on how long you see yourself using this unit for, and for whatever applications you can currently use it for anyway.

The only downside to the 307 is the price difference, but in all reality (and this is what I've debated), how necessary is it to have the additional processing formats? Also, if you have a DVD player that has better dac's than what the model (101 or 307) has to start with, then you're really not gaining much there either, making the upgrade as a whole virtually unnecessary. I don't know that a HK amp would accomplish what you'd want as far as matching sonically to the B&K, but what you could do to skate by is to put the HK on rear surrounds, and keep the mains, center, and side surrounds on the B&K. I don't know that you'd notice the rear surrounds as much as you would if you put the HK on the more utilized channels.........

That being said, if you decide NOT to do the upgrades, then the 101 would be just fine as is, since it's basically a slightly older version of the 307, with the same specs with the exception of the amp power, and component video in's, and maybe those 6.1 analog input for dvd-a etc........

bigsexy1

Brett, after the upgrade, the 101 and the 202 would both be identical in every way, shape, and form to each other, thus that is why they would both be labled as the 212 (there simply is no 111). The only difference whatsoever at all in the 101 and 202 intitially was that the 202 had DTS, and the 101 didn't.

It would have analog preins/outs for all 7.1 channels, so you could do SACD/DVD Audio with it.

As for the amp section on it, I'm pretty sure it would definitely be stronger than the 3802/3. It might actually even be stronger than my HK 8000.

You are set with yours. As dorokusai pointed out, these will (or at least should) always be upgradeable from now on, no matter what they can come up with. You personally might not at this time be interested in the upgrade, but at least it's nice to know that you always have that option for if and when you ever decide to. I'm thinking of waiting until PL2xx is out before sending mine in for the upgrade after I get it.

Tour2ma

bs,

What are they calling the 101 upgrade?

I know they took the old AVP 2000's in for Ref 20's (actually was a trade in, you got nothing of your old AVP back).

And BTW 50% more power is less than a 1.5 dB kick... more like 1.2. Non-linear log scale and all that stuff...

bigsexy1

Hi T2M, the 101 upgrade will be called the 212.

I forgot to point out in the very first thread that it will also have DTS Neo 6 too.

I was under the impression that they actually took your old chasis and internally revamped it. I was told they actually switch out the motherboard, all new DACs, DSP(s), change the rear panel and it's hookup configuration, even the front faceplate, etc. I don't think they just entirely give you a whole new unit as they may have for the AVP2000s.

I was just basing my power kick based on the old "double the amp power to raise the volume by 3 db" theory, so it was just an approximate guess. You are spot on it though. The 307 would have almost as much and half again more power than the 101/212, and more power is always a good thing, but in this case it wouldn't really be highly dramatic and signifigant.

I've decided that I am going to do it. Good bye 3802 (which I do like very much, but really wish it was a 3803 instead), hello B&K!

One feature of the 3802 I like very much is the ability to hook up 2 pairs of surround back speakers in addtion to side surrounds and switch the receiver's rear back amp channels between them. I use FXi30s mounted on the rear wall center in bipole for movies, and a pair of RTi150s more towards the back corners angled in for SACD/DVD audio misic listening. I would then lose this ability, unless I got a speaker selector switch or something. Any ideas on a high quality solution to this problem?

bigsexy1

Well, it's a done deal. This evening, I unhooked the 3802, and it is now gone. I will probably hook up the B&K on Sunday, as I have to work a half day tomorrow and then we are going to see Aerosmith and KISS tomorrow night.
After I have it up and running, I'll write a review on my first impressions on it.

bikezappa

Tell us what you think of the design philosophy of the B&K. Or is it easy to set-up and use? Or do you need to consult the manual to change FM channels?

wallstreet

Originally posted by bikezappa
Tell us what you think of the design philosophy of the B&K. Or is it easy to set-up and use? Or do you need to consult the manual to change FM channels?

What??!! This thing has an FM tuner too?? Time to get out my manual! BTW, my 307 is the most difficult receiver to setup I've ever owned. OTOH, it's the most flexible receiver I've ever owned. It even comes with a software program to allow for easier setup. Now if I can just figure out how to work that, I'll be home free!

polkatese

B&K FM setup is counter-intuitive compared to say, Rotel. The manual is not helping either, since it doesn't really explain how to set them up. The easiest way to setup is to use the software. Think of setting up FM stations presets in the same context as setting up preferences. For instance, in setting up Preset #1 for FM 102.7 MHz, you need to configure speaker settings, loudness, volume level, etc., which is the same as setting up Preset #30 for DVD Audio Direct configuration. Do understand the software, because without using it, it's a pain in the butt.

On Rotel receiver, setting up presets for FM stations is simple as to setup your car's fm radio.

bikezappa

On Rotel receiver, setting up presets for FM stations is simple as to setup your car's fm radio.


Polkatse

Setting up presets for FM stations is simple for ANY receiver ever made period...

I wonder what they were smoking when they designed the B&K equipment. At least you don't need to consult the ,manual to turn it off and on. Well there is the sleep button thing. And the trigger signal from the B&K will not turn on anything but onther B&K amps. The trigger has limited current at the 12 volts output. 50 ma I think. All the amps with triggers require 100ma at 12 volts. Way to go B&K.

bigsexy1

I did not realize that using the tuner on B&K was such an issue. Oh well, I won't be using it much anyways, so no biggie.

brettw22

Originally posted by bigsexy1
I was under the impression that they actually took your old chasis and internally revamped it. I was told they actually switch out the motherboard, all new DACs, DSP(s), change the rear panel and it's hookup configuration, even the front faceplate, etc. I don't think they just entirely give you a whole new unit as they may have for the AVP2000s.

Have you talked to someone at B&K about this? I called them about the upgrade to my 307 and was told that they dont' do anything with the faceplate, or anything with the rear connections. I know that the DAC's are upgraded, but as far as replacing everything else, I don't know how they could financially do that. Granted, you're paying double what I would be paying for my upgrade, but who knows. If they give you the newer back panel, with the component connections, then you've got a hell of a deal on something that you can live with for a while.

As for the tuner, I had to get a powered antenna to pull in a few stations. I wish that it had something a bit better built in, but in all reality, I dont' listen to the radio much period, let alone in the house.........

bigsexy1

Well, I do have it up and running now. Haven't really had a lot of time to play with it yet, but from what I have so far, I can say that it definitely sounds better than the 3802 on 2 channel stereo. It was an obvious, noticeable difference. Haven't messed with the tuner yet though. I don't really care that much about it anyway. FM is as best a mid-fi medium, and I don't really use it much in home (only in the car mostly). I'd almost venture to say that the B&K sounds better on 2 channel stereo than my HK 8000, but I won't unequivocally state that just yet.

Brett, yes I did talk with somebody. I guess that maybe since your's would require less done to it in an upgrade, that is probably why it's cheaper and they don't do as much.

robodell

bigsexy1 -

Congrats on the 101>505 upgrade! You are definitely a more adventurous soul than me, and it sounds like your adventure paid off.

Could you provide some more detail on your speakers and their arrangement? You mentioned that your rear surrounds RTi150 (music) and FX30 (movie). What about the rest of your setup? ...just curious.

Thanks.

bigsexy1

robodell, thank you. I haven't actually gotten the upgrade to it yet, just the receiver itself, which in it's present incarnation is the 101. It's also going to be a while before I can get the upgrade too, because I simply can't afford it right now at this moment. In that regard, it may have been a short term mistake to trade the 3802 for the 101, but looking at the long run, I really think I made the right move. I guess it's like taking a step backwards in order to be able to take several steps forward later. I was planning on eventually upgrading the 3802 with something else down the road at some point in the future anyway. Obviously, the 3802 was much more flexible and had more features right now than the pre-upgraded B&K does though, but in terms of pure absolute sound quality, it's no contest!

I do have a Sony 7000 dvd player that's just DD (with no DTS) I could pair up with it. I also have a full set of 5 M&K S85 speakers (plus sub) that I'm thinking about driving them with the B&K in the bedroom system since it only has 5 channel capability right now. M&Ks are kind of bright and dynamic (not as much as say Klipsch, but they are in their own way nonetheless), and I think the B&K would be a very good match for them. Plus, I think it would have no problems driving 4 ohm speakers. It might even have a stronger power amp section than my HK 8000 (which is really saying something). Admittedly, this will only be a DD 5.1 sytem right now (and nothing else), but you have to admit, that is one hell of a DD 5.1 system at that (even if I do say so myself)!

As for your question on how I had the 150s and 30 set up for either music or movies, I'm simply going to copy and paste what I wrote in an earlier reply:

"One feature of the 3802 I like very much is the ability to hook up 2 pairs of surround back speakers in addtion to side surrounds and switch the receiver's rear back amp channels between them. I use FXi30s mounted on the rear wall center in bipole for movies, and a pair of RTi150s more towards the back corners angled in for SACD/DVD audio misic listening. I would then lose this ability, unless I got a speaker selector switch or something. Any ideas on a high quality solution to this problem?"

Obviously, I no longer have this ability now, and that is what I'm going to miss most about the 3802 really. I did have the HK 8000 driving the M&Ks in the bedroom system, and the 3802 mainly as a pre/pro in the main system with the Polks. Now I will have the HK 8000 in the main system, and I have to come up with some way now to be able to switch back and forth from the rear 30s to the rear 150s. I guess I'll just have to look into getting a good speaker selector switcher, or something. Anyone have any good suggestions? I'd very much appreciate them.

As for the rest of my Polk system, CSi40 center, Rti150 mains, and FXi30 side surrounds (in dipole mode), in addition to the previously mentioned 2nd pairs of 150s and 30s in the back. So, to make it simplier:
1 Csi40
2 pair RTi 150 (4 total)
2 pair FXi30 (4 total)
Plus 2 Infinity IL120s subwoofers