Arcam CD-192 " AUDIO DROPOUTS "

larry777

I just received an Arcam CD-192 player from Audiogon that was advertised as a 9/10 on the Audiogon Scale. I set this CD Player into my 2 channel system using quality Van Den Hul Interconnects. When I pay a disc the sound keeps cutting in and out (Audio dropouts). I tried both RCA outputs on the back, but I get the same result, and the rest of my system is ok as my existing CD Player works fine. I am thinking that the Laser is going bad,so I plan to start the Audiogon return process. I would like to get some comments as to what others think about this situation and the possible problem with the CD-192.

dorokusai

Have you tried it in another rig or setup? Cleaned the eye with some canned air and alcohol?

It sounds like a read problem.

larry777

I didn't do anything as I don't want the seller to think that I caused this problem. I didn't try it in another setup as my system works great with my other CD Player. A " read problem" may be easy to fix as you suggest but I would have to remove the case cover to get at the laser....correct ? When the player warms up the dropouts seem to stop,so does that sound like a read problem ? The player has CD Text and can read the disc titles ok. When I get these Dropouts....the panel lights do not dim....as they would if I was losing power. So no power loss. The player came with a Christmas Disc still in the tray...so not likely used for awhile. I was told that this player came from a store that closed its doors 2 yrs ago. It looks brand new with not even any dust on it.

treitz3

Sounds like a cold solder joint before both outputs to me.

larry777

Cold Solder Joint....How do you fix that ? This particular model was only first produced starting in 2005. Could a solder joint go that quick ? Wouldn't a bad solder joint stop the signal altogether ? or does it get better as the player warms up ?

headrott

Possibly the DACs are loosing lock (for whatever reason(s), which could be quite a few). I know some clocks for some DAC chips will cause the DAC to loose lock until the clock heats up a little and then the lock remains more consistant. It has to do with the amount of jitter filtering that goes on in the DAC (if that is indeed the cause). Not sure if there is a way to adjust the jitter filter on the clock/DAC(s) combo or not since this is the internal DAC in the player and not a stand alone DAC. But, it's an idea of what may be causing it.

What is/are the DAC and clock chipset(s) in the player?

Greg

treitz3

larry777 wrote: »

Cold Solder Joint....How do you fix that ? This particular model was only first produced starting in 2005. Could a solder joint go that quick ? Wouldn't a bad solder joint stop the signal altogether ? or does it get better as the player warms up ?

A cold solder joint can do both. It will be very hard to spot without a magnifying glass and some troubleshooting skills [unless it's obvious, which doesn't sound like the case] but it may just be one of those cheap fixes if you know where and how to look. If you are uncomfortable in doing anything like this, just return it.

A cold solder joint happens during the manufacturing process.

larry777

From the Arcam site.....4 x Wolfson WM8740 Dac's per channel.
High stability 3rd overtone clock....dosn't tell me a lot.

I just checked out Cold Solder Joints. The fix appears to be to resolder the joints.....I did some soldering of pipes a few years back. Its like a glue gun process only using a Soldering Iron and solder. I don't think that would be a problem if I can find the problem joint ( If thats what is causing the dropouts )

larry777

I just got an e-mail from the seller. He suggests I send it back at his expense so he can take it to his technician.....and if their is a problem,he will refund my money. This isn't the Audiogon process that I read up on. Any comments ?

Update :

I did some research on line about cleaning the laser. To determine if the laser needs cleaning they said to try the first song on the disc which should have audio dropouts. Then it said to go to the last song on the disc....and their shouldn't be any audio dropouts. I tried this on my player and it worked exactly this way. No audio dropouts on the last track. So should I be able to eliminate the Cold Solder joint and Dac's etc as the Cause then ?.......And is the problem likely to be that the laser does need cleaning ?

dorokusai

I wouldn't presume that cold solder joints would cause the problem since you get actual playback and not complete failure. Cold solder joints are usually on the more active parts of the chassis and areas that may get more physical contact and wiggle than the other. Cold solder and broken joints are in the same vein and are basically the same thing, one being more obvious or extreme than the other.

The sled assembly should be pretty solid and firmly mounted. It's also not something you come into contact with changing cables or tubes. It still sounds like a dirty eye or misaligned sled assembly to me. They stopped locking sleds for transport years ago and even if they are more rigid and of a closed transport design, they can still be knocked out of alignment.

The seller sounds very cool but I'd try and help out by eliminating all the easy stuff prior to sending it back. Good luck.

larry777

It does seem to be getting narrowed down to the lens needing cleaning alright. What do you think about the test of the first and last tracks I mention in my last post ? It does suggest lens cleaning as the problem also. Any logic to that test....and why would the last track play properly but the first track skip ?

treitz3

larry777 wrote: »

I just got an e-mail from the seller. He suggests I send it back at his expense so he can take it to his technician.....and if their is a problem,he will refund my money. This isn't the Audiogon process that I read up on. Any comments ?

It's your choice and the cold solder joint is just an online thought brought forth with the information provided. Actual troubleshooting could lead to that exact issue or something that Mark mentioned or possibly even something different. No one really knows until they get get in the guts and take a look.

As far as Audiogon goes, refer to others that have more experience than I.

larry777

Yes I do understand your comments and appreciate any and all input. It seems like a lens cleaning is pretty straight forward as a first step, and at least worth a shot to fix the problem. I would prefer to keep the player if at all possible, but if it gets more complicated I may get in over my head. A resolder I could do...but if it is Dac's or clocks etc that would be a different story. Any comment on the test of the first and last song played from the disc ? The first track skips....but the last one dosn't ?

dorokusai

Tom certainly mentioned a plausible cause of which I support but you're going to be required to get intimate either way. He's spot on in regards to getting inside and looking around. Audiogon fault resolution is clearly identified in the rules and the seller appears to be very accomodating so far. Don't screw it up with questions or too much DIY troubleshooting if they are willing to help.

I've never heard of that test but I believe the point is to see how well the eye tracks from fore to aft. The first track is the center, the last, the outer. If it fails upon tracking...it's a read or sled problem.

larry777

OK....Can I use Rubbing Alcohol to clean the lens along with a cotton swab ?

dorokusai

You need 98%+ alcohol with lint free swabs and compressed air to clean it properly.

larry777

OK Thanks.....I just have to find out where I can get this Alcohol. I believe rubbing alcohol is about 70% which wouldn't be any good then.

larry777

A close look at the disc that came loaded with this CD Player shows a film all over it. A build up of what looks to be airborne particles...evenly distributed across the disc. Almost like how smoke scum would build up,although I can't smell smoke or see evidence of it anywhere else on the player. Just using that as an example. This would also indicate that the lens may also have the same problem and needs a cleaning. I will shop for the 99% Alcohol that I need and a can of air to clean the lens...and hope that it solves my skipping problem. Thanks for all the help.

headrott

It sounds like you are on the right track to figuring out/solving the problem. Sometimes problems will still suprise you though. I hope the alcohol and lens cleaning works for you. That would be a (relatively) easy fix. Please let us know the result.

Greg

larry777

I am thinking about updating the seller and ask him if he is ok with me trying to clean the CD Lens ? That way he is still in the know....and that this possible solution would prevent me from sending the player back for a refund ( If it works ). Opening the top cover may leave marks on the screw heads, which may not be a good thing if he dosn't know I am trying this. What do you all think ? Trying to be honest here.

dorokusai

Being honest is one thing but didn't you purchase this item based on it being in working condition. Unless your a neaderthal with a screwdriver and qtips...what's the problem?

If you're questioning everything at this point, just send it back. You're not ready to do this stuff yourself.

larry777

Ha Ha...I had a laugh at that one......I wouldn't have any problem with this cleaning procedure at all. I have the proper tools to open the case and cleaning the Lens isn't complicated. This is my first dealings with Audiogon and " IF " I have to return the player I don't want any problems because I removed the top. In other words,would that prevent me from getting a refund ? Hell,it may even work and my problems would be over. That was funny though.

larry777

I opened the player up and completed the Lens Cleaning as recommended. It didn't make any difference to the performance. It was super clean inside with not even a spec of dust anywhere to be seen. The Lens was very shiney and clean looking, so I immediately felt that a cleaning at this point wouldn't work.....but at least we ruled that out. I will send the player back and if the sellers tech can fix the problem we may still be able to work the deal. Thanks for all the help....much appreciated.

dorokusai

Well, it was worth a shot and nothing negative in the end. You're ready for the next cleaning since you bought the right stuff. I'd suggest the survival kits for $40 that CAIG offers to handle anything you may come across otherwise. It's worth it's weight in gold and their products are the best.

www.caig.com

larry777

Thanks for the link....I just added it to my Favorites. Thats what I need to go inside my Sansui Amp with....to make sure things stay in good shape. I want to clean the volume Pod and switches....so that should do the job.

larry777

UPDATE to all those who responded to this post and others: Seller is willing to ship back the CD-192....have the problem fixed by a qualified Tech....and ship it back to me at his expense. He has all Positive Feedback on Audiogon (53 total) and no Negative or Neutral....so I'm confident he will take care of it. Its a slight Inconvience,but I can't ask for any better service at this point.

dorokusai

That's great service and a loss of at least 50-100 bucks on his end.

headrott

Agreed. You won't find people willing to go that far to make things right. Glad you will get a working CD player. Please let us know what the problem was if you find out.

Greg

Roy57

Hi

Did you find out from the seller what was the cause of the audio drop out? I am having a similar problem with a Marantz cd63KI.


Roy

larry777

Not 100% no, but much better. Every so often I will get a pause but usually before the player warms up. Then some days no problem at all. It doesn't appear to be electronically either. Something to do with the fine grease along the track inside the player. It sounded to me like it didn't stay pliable enough, because the player was stored so long after the audio shop went out of business before I bought it ( If that makes sense ). In any case whatever the sellers tech did it was a major improvement ( No parts were replaced ). I did read somewhere on line that someone else had this problem with their player. It turned out that a very small plastic bump was on one of the tracking cogs inside his player that would catch every so often causing a pause. When he removed it, the player worked perfect. I didn't look at my player for this issue as things are so much better, although I may some day.

Roy57

Thanks, I have tried it all - lens cleaning, greasing rails, plastic gear inspection, resoldered components- replaced dac/ decoder and still have the drop out. The curious bit is that the play continues to read the cd and the counter progress as if the player is muted - (muting section has been removed). I am considering trying a different clock.