SVS cylinder subs vs box sub

TouchOfEvil
TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
edited August 2011 in Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
I was looking at the SVS cylinder subs. Mainly because my single sub in the livingroom is not cutting it for me and i don't have enough room to place to box subs in the space i am "waf" allowed to put them.
Basically they must go against the same wall as the tv and rack etc etc so i need them to use less floor space.
I want to run two for more output....

My main question is do you lose any performance with the cylinder subs vs a box type?
I use the setup for both music and ht. About 65%ht 35% music ratio.
This is going with my lsi setup.

The room in question is roughly 16X20 but open at one end to the foyer and a hallway on either side and at the other opens to the kitchen/dinning area. Another 16X20 area.
Living Room Rig:D
Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
Xbox360/PS3/WII
M.Br. setup:)
Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
Computer Rig:
Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
Post edited by TouchOfEvil on
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Comments

  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited August 2011
    Pretty big space to fill, I would go with dual cylinders in a room that size.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2011
    Sherardp wrote: »
    Pretty big space to fill, I would go with dual cylinders in a room that size.

    That is what i was wanting to do. Just wondering how much if any performance you lose with the cylinder subs. Also would the entry line x2 be good enough or do i need to invest more?
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited August 2011
    You could get away with 2 PC12 NSD's and still be good. For the price of dual PC12 Plus's I would suggest the savings and go with the limited editions that come with the sledge hammer eq. It has a built in amp plus the room eq so it would correct any problems in the room. I'm not the duty expert with sub EQs though I do have the Velo-sms 1. I'm sure some others could advise you on EQing.

    http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-legato.cfm
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2011
    The PC series from SVS has the same output as any other of their series. I emailed them about the PC12NSD v the PB12NSD and they said it was more about which form factor fit the room better.

    If you have some questions email them. Heck I got a email response w/i 2 hours from the CEO of the company a couple times. All my questions were answered within a day (but normally w/i hours).

    Shoot them your room dimensions, a pic of it if you can and they will be more than happy to recommend what sub would work best.

    I have a similar layout (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1252178) and was planning on going with 2 SVS PC-12NSD's (and still might) but I am now debating two of the Chase Home Theater 18" passives paired with the right amp....

    If your AVR has a good EQ for the sub the PC12+ will add more output but you wouldnt need the autocal in it.

    Anyway, email SVS and get their thoughts as well :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2011
    Thank you guys. I can certainly take a few pics and send an email so i think i'll do just that.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • 20hz
    20hz Posts: 636
    edited August 2011
    TouchOfEvil wrote: »
    I was looking at the SVS cylinder subs. Mainly because my single sub in the livingroom is not cutting it for me and i don't have enough room to place to box subs in the space i am "waf" allowed to put them.
    Basically they must go against the same wall as the tv and rack etc etc so i need them to use less floor space.
    I want to run two for more output....

    My main question is do you lose any performance with the cylinder subs vs a box type?

    I cylinder has the best sound because there is no parallel walls for sound to bounce off the only problem is that it has to long to get the volume .
    But if you got the floor space its great , what I did was built a isoberic design clamshell type (cones face each other) with that the speaker only needs 1/2 of the cabinet size , and mine is behind the tv , my sub gets 109 db at 20 hertz w/a 300 watt amp .
    Even if you cant build that sub I would look into it the cost is amazingly cheap .
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  • spnplgr
    spnplgr Posts: 33
    edited August 2011
    I have a room similiar to yours. ABout 13 wide and 20 or so long, and 2/3 open at the one end towards dining area and kithchen. So the whole area is almost 42 long. I have the SVS PC12-NSD also. Its located way on the left front corner of the sideways room. I can't tell where the bass is coming from. It all over. Just love it for movies. You know in the opening scene of Tombstone when all the riders are coming at you. You would think that they are going to trample you. Or the stampede in the movie Austrailia. It's large round sub, but the foootprint is not that big. For my purposes, it is just great. I have the Rti8's and CSi5. Mixes in just right.
    :)spnplgr
    Frt: Polk RTi8's
    Ctr: Polk CSi5
    Surr: Polk FXi3's
    Sub: SVS PC12-NSD
    TV: Sony KDL-XBR4 46"
    A/V: NAD T-747
    Sony BDP-S300
    Eq rack: VTI AGR404
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited August 2011
    Box for sheer brutal impact and refrigerator sex appeal. Tubes require questions and explanations....large cubes just say awesome.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2011
    dorokusai wrote: »
    Box for sheer brutal impact and refrigerator sex appeal. Tubes require questions and explanations....large cubes just say awesome.

    refrigerator sex appeal had me laughing for about 5mins ha.
    I'd love to put a massive sub in there but it would have to go on another wall and the WAF doesn't want to allow it. So that is why i'm thinking two tubes may get the job done.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 570
    edited August 2011
    Just looking at a box versus a cylinder, the round cylinder should win everytime from an engineering perspective!

    The lack of reflective walls and the greater strength of the round shape are both big steps forward. How the designer does with the use of space, the driver selected, etc..., is a whole 'nuther story though.

    But don't think for a minute that the round shape is a compromise right out of the gate...it's actually the other way around!

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."

    More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping."
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited August 2011
    TouchOfEvil wrote: »
    refrigerator sex appeal had me laughing for about 5mins ha.
    I'd love to put a massive sub in there but it would have to go on another wall and the WAF doesn't want to allow it. So that is why i'm thinking two tubes may get the job done.

    You do know that the cylinders are not small and easily tucked away, right? How did two big towers pass WAF while the over sized end table did not?
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2011
    Just a suggestion and a crazy one...

    Def Tech powered towers make EXCELLENT low profile subwoofers...

    The entire line, 7006, 7004, 7002, 7000 and there is the older series, 2006, 2004, 2002, 2000, 3000 - all of them can be had fairly cheap on the used market and they take up around .5 sq ft on average!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2011
    cheddar wrote: »
    You do know that the cylinders are not small and easily tucked away, right? How did two big towers pass WAF while the over sized end table did not?

    In my case the Wife planned on putting privacy screens in front of them so they were not visible since they were going in the corners. That and the NSD versions are really not that tall compared to the 12+.

    Also they weigh a bunch less than the box version.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited August 2011
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Also they weigh a bunch less than the box version.

    Well, they make smaller box subs as well. But the Ultra is a beast, and moving it is a back breaking two man job. Mover's rollers highly recommended.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited August 2011
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

    Def Tech powered towers make EXCELLENT low profile subwoofers...

    The entire line, 7006, 7004, 7002, 7000 and....

    Not really. The LSi25 isn't that great for all the same reasons.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2011
    cheddar wrote: »
    You do know that the cylinders are not small and easily tucked away, right? How did two big towers pass WAF while the over sized end table did not?
    Smaller than the 18X16 square i have right now. It hangs over the backwall into the foyers view by about 3" and another one just like it is too large for the other side as well.
    If the round subs are 4-5" smaller in width i can fit one on each side no problem.
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Just a suggestion and a crazy one...

    Def Tech powered towers make EXCELLENT low profile subwoofers...

    The entire line, 7006, 7004, 7002, 7000 and there is the older series, 2006, 2004, 2002, 2000, 3000 - all of them can be had fairly cheap on the used market and they take up around .5 sq ft on average!

    I have had powered sub towers before and i got rid of them. Also if i did that i'd have to get the lsi25's or change my center and surrounds as well. Just not in the cards, plus i like my 15's. It would be alot easier to grab new subs rather than a all new speaker package. Unless i talked her into the lsim line of course.:eek:
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2011
    TouchOfEvil wrote: »
    Smaller than the 18X16 square i have right now. It hangs over the backwall into the foyers view by about 3" and another one just like it is too large for the other side as well.
    If the round subs are 4-5" smaller in width i can fit one on each side no problem.

    The SVS PC line subs are all 16-5/8" in diameter, just vary in height based on which model you get.

    The Smallest of the box subs (PB-12NSD) is 16-3/4" deep with the grill on.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • MADGSF
    MADGSF Posts: 603
    edited August 2011
    I have a similar environment and my first gen PC-Ultra has no problems pressurizing it. I actually moved it out of the corner to between my left main and center for the best response. I wonder if one of the new PC13-Ultra's wouldn't be engouh for your application.
    AVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
    Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
    Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
    Mains: RTi-10
    Center: CSi-5
    Rear: Boston DSi460
    Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
    TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
    DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K
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  • cheddar
    cheddar Posts: 2,390
    edited August 2011
    MADGSF wrote: »
    I wonder if one of the new PC13-Ultra's wouldn't be engouh for your application.

    It would also be an almost 4 foot tall monolith. :wink:
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2011
    cheddar wrote: »
    It would also be an almost 4 foot tall monolith. :wink:

    LOL... true but they are a lot lighter, and cheaper to ship as a result :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2011
    4foot tall eh? The height doesn't really matter just so long as it fits down in the space. I'm dragging my feet abit thanks to some flu or something just like it. Not feeling so great.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited August 2011
    TouchOfEvil wrote: »
    The height doesn't really matter just so long as it fits down in the space.

    Thats what she said......but not to me :wink::tongue:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • MADGSF
    MADGSF Posts: 603
    edited August 2011
    Well he is looking at cylinder subs already and I like the way mine looks. It also gets a lot of 'what is that' questions. :smile:
    AVR: Elite VSX-21TXH
    Amplifier: B&K 7250 Series ii
    Misc: Velodyne SMS-1
    Mains: RTi-10
    Center: CSi-5
    Rear: Boston DSi460
    Sub: SVS PC-Ultra
    TV: Panasonic TC-P58V10
    DVD: Panasonic DMP-BD60K
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  • rtart
    rtart Posts: 832
    edited August 2011
    I've owned them both and would say that the cylinders are a little more efficent, depending on how you tune them with the port plugs. I'd stay with the 20-39's instead of going lower. They're a good compromise for movies and music, unless you are a pipe organ fan, then go with the 16 hZ models. At one time I had four 20-39 PCPlus units, one on each wall of my HT but found my current pair of PB12-plus/2's allow easier calibration.
    My 7.4.4 DIY 4k Home Theater:
    Polk LSiM 707 L-C-R, LSiM702 side surrounds, LSiM 705 rears
    Polk LSiM 702s x 4 on the Ceiling Atmos speakers
    2 x SVS PB12/Plus 2's
    Denon X3700H
    Emotiva XPA11 Gen 3
    XBox One X 4k & BD and streaming
    Panasonic UB-420 4k player
    HD-A35 HD DVD
    Oppo BD-103D for hirez audio
    Technics SL-D2 TT, Grado Gold Cartridge
    JVC DLA-RS2000/NX7 projector
    Silver Ticket 120" acoustically transparent screen
    Berkline 090 electric recliners with Aura Bass Shakers
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  • teamjhertz
    teamjhertz Posts: 361
    edited August 2011
    I was very please with my 1st generation PC-Ultra cylinder sub. One of the best things about it was that it was very easy to lug up and down the stairs as needed. The box versions are much heavier and harder to move around.
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited August 2011
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Thats what she said......but not to me :wink::tongue:

    lol,I did some measuring and can fit one on each side tucked right behind/next to the towers. Now i just need to give them a call and see what setup they think i should end up running.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
    Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's
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