Turntable Help - upgrade?

bklynNupe

I?d like to get your opinion if I should upgrade my turntable? I have a Pro-Ject iii debut with pretty low hours on it. While listening to some used vinyl I just purchased last week, I noticed a couple of things that I didn?t like. A couple of records skipped although they were in excellent condition. This may have been from the weight not being properly adjusted? Also, the sound was a bit hollow. I have read about a couple of mandatory upgrades for the Pro-ject such an acrylic platter, needle and perhaps cartridge seem to be a must by almost all owners I?ve came across.
I paid about 375 for this TT so I?m wondering should I invest $130 dollars for a new platter and $130 - $400 dollars for a new needle/cartridge? Should I sell it rather than doing the upgrades for a used TT that I can upgrade over time? I see upgrades as inevitable no matter what TT I own; I just want to get the best return for my money so far as sound and potential resale.

I?m thinking the Technics 1200 ( maybe with the KAB upgrades), Pioneer, or a couple of others that can benefit from upgraded cartridge, wires, etc. I would like to keep my budget around what I paid for the Pro-ject if it?s something used. I?m also fond of many of the older TT?s with wooden a plinth, although aesthetics is second to sound quality.

Any suggestions are welcome, Thanks.

brgman

I have the acrylic platter on mine but have yet to upgrade the needle.Once i had the weight tuned in i have not had any skipping on old stuff, new stuff,regular,180g etc.
Unless you are jonesin to spend te money i would make sure you weigh it in correctly,and make sure it is level.
What kind of pre are you using?
Mine ran through a Onkyo 808 and now a parasound 2100 and sounds great IMHO.
Just my .02.
Good luck

Michael8it

I am a very old school Bang & Olufsen fan. I really like their Linear Tracking Turntables, which are fairly abundant on eBay and you could probably find one on Craigslist as well.

bklynNupe

Keiko wrote: »

I own an SL-1210M5G with a Dynavector 10x5 MC cartridge and like my setup a lot. Never heard a Debut TT, but have heard nothing but good things about them. Not sure what cartridge you're using, but in your case, I'd start with upgrading that and make sure everything's dialed in correctly.

I'm using the stock Ortofon 5E, which most comments online say is crappy. I will recheck my settings and I will also try a few tweaks to dampen vibration.

brgman wrote: »

I have the acrylic platter on mine but have yet to upgrade the needle. Once i had the weight tuned in i have not had any skipping on old stuff, new stuff,regular,180g etc.
Unless you are jonesin to spend te money i would make sure you weigh it in correctly, and make sure it is level.
What kind of pre are you using?
Mine ran through a Onkyo 808 and now a parasound 2100 and sounds great IMHO.
Just my .02.
Good luck

Not jonesin to spend money, just trying to reevaluate things, thanks.
I'm using an older AR pre (SP9) , the previous owner had a bunch of mods professionally done and only used it for vinyl.

Michael8it wrote: »

I am a very old school Bang & Olufsen fan. I really like their Linear Tracking Turntables, which are fairly abundant on eBay and you could probably find one on Craigslist as well.

I've seen these, but honestly don't know much about them.

I would certainly prefer to do a few mods and tweaks if it?s a good bang for the buck. I?m just wondering how high up in price should I go on the cartridge/needle?
I was thinking about the Denon DL-160 Phono Cartridge $179 and the Acrylic platter for $129. Does anyone upgrade the cables and wires on the pro-ject? I don?t mind doing these things, but will it be worth it?

Brad

thsmith

Before you do anything check that your TT is level, cart is aligned correctly, tonearm is balanced correctly and anti-skip is setup right.

Thats is just part one.

If you are serious you need to check your cart azmuth and tonearm VTA.

Joe08867

Like thsmith said, do the basics before you dump you current table.

If all is setup proper, the hollowness should go away and the skipping should be from a bad record not the TT.

I am a Rega guy myself. I also have an acrylic platter and it was a vast improvement over stock.

doctor r

Setup, Setup, Setup. Recheck and tweak you alignment, re-balance the tonearm after checking the table is level and check what the tracking force is set to. A digital scale is an excellent addition to any turntable setup. Check and see if the arm base is adjustable for changing the vertical tracking angle (stylus rake angle actually). Each of these adjustments will have a noticeable affect on the sound you hear. Make changes and listen. Your ears can be great guides. A good protractor for alignment is needed. If you do not have one you can look on the "Vinyl Engine" website and download one. Welcome to the fun of vinyl. The skills you acquire in setting up this table are fundamental for good vinyl playback and will translate to any future table and arm you move on to. See how well you can maximize this setup before you jump to changing equipment (though a cartridge upgrade would not be a bad idea).

Rick

thsmith

I have one of these and a USB microscope to align my cart, huge difference in sound when cart is aligned correctly.

http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm

Rodeo0530

I have the same TT as you and haven't had any skipping problems on any of my vinyl. I did upgrade the platter and I'm probably going to upgrade to the OM30 stylus soon, but I've been pretty impressed thus far with it.

PSOVLSK

I have the same table with an Acryl-It platter, Shure m97xe cart, and a Clearaudio Twister clamp. Never a problem with skipping once I got it set-up correctly. It's still probably not as fine-tuned as it could be, but it sounds good to me. Set-up is definitely an important factor. FYI: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102156&page=2 A good read and lots of good info, but bottom line is not to use the Denon DL-160 with the metal platter (unless using a sticky mat, etc).

Also, all items can be found here: http://www.needledoctor.com/ You may be able to find them cheaper other places, but just thought I'd post for your reference.

stuwee

Dang, I bet that old AR pre sounds biatchin', I'd look for a nice heavy vintage Thorens or Dual and get the best stylus you can afford on a Shure V15 to go with that AR's phono section . Probably around $600 for a superb refurbed unit with a vintage SME on the Thorens all in. Prices are low because of the economy, but they will shoot up when it recovers, nows the time to scoop a good old TT that'll last for longer than you will

quadzilla

Like others have said, you need to have the cart aligned, stylus force and anti-skate properly set. If those are off, you'll have tracking problems and it won't sound the best it could. Once that's done, then you can decide if you really need/want a better cartridge or any of the other tweaks.

You can get alignment protractors free from vinyl engine. A stylus force gauge and bubble level can be had from needle doctor for reasonable prices.

bklynNupe

Thanks fellas, this is all very useful advice. Rick and everyone else, you are so right. I need to up my knowledge on proper set up. I purchased the Pro-ject about two years a go when i got into this hobby. Ive been spending most of my time inproving my digital music. Now i want focus more on my neglected TT. :redface:
I'll work on the optimized set up first, and if I'm not satisfied the Thorens would be my next consideration.

Brad

bklynNupe

Keiko wrote: »

Brad,

Check out vinylengine and Steve Hoffman. Great forums for getting your vinyl learn on.

http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/

Thanks Keiko, I'm on it!

bklynNupe

So after a bit of research I?ve decided to do a couple of major tweaks with my debut III in hope of making a noticeable step up. I would greatly appreciate any feedback regarding my choices below. All of the tweaks below will run a total of about $440.



Spin Clean Record Washer
Pro-Ject Acry-It Platter
Pro-Ject 75g Counterweight
Ortonfon 2M Blue Phono Cartridge


Thanks,
Brad

doctor r

I agree with Keiko about the spin clean, especially if you like to find nice used albums that really need a deep cleaning a better cleaner will serve you well. The cartridge is a good thought as is the acrylic platter. Not sure if you would need to change the counterweight unless you cannot balance your cartridge with the present one. If you have not invested in one yet, I will highly recommend acquiring a reasonably priced digital scale. It is so important to get the vertical tracking force correct for best performance. If you already have one then ...... carry on.

bklynNupe

Doctor R wrote: »

I agree with Keiko about the spin clean, especially if you like to find nice used albums that really need a deep cleaning a better cleaner will serve you well. The cartridge is a good thought as is the acrylic platter. Not sure if you would need to change the counterweight unless you cannot balance your cartridge with the present one. If you have not invested in one yet, I will highly recommend acquiring a reasonably priced digital scale. It is so important to get the vertical tracking force correct for best performance. If you already have one then ...... carry on.

I've heard good things about the nitty gritty. I just ordered the other upgrades but I will hold off on the record cleaner for now only because of the additional investment. I have placed it on my short list.

Thanks fellas.