Subwoofer calibration

Nacken23

Hi everyone

I am still having trouble with my subwoofer an Epik Empire. The sub sounds great with music and with some movies but at times with movies it sounds a bit boomy at times:mad:

I bought a antimode and it did help but when I use the DVE calibration disc checking the sub tones from 30-80hz at 30hz I basically get no change on my spl meter but I can hear some noise coming from the sub but its quite low.

At 40hz its reads about 41 db then at 50hz -50 db, 60hz - 63 db, 70 - 62 db,
Finally 80hz - 76 db.

Shouldn't the sub tones between 30 -50hz be alot higher for better sound.

Any advice?

Polkie2009

First off did you do the crawl test for placement? Follow all the instructions when setting up the antimode? Usually, you'll just have to deal with various room nulls at certain frequencies etc., lots of variables when it comes to room acoustics. Check out the site RealTraps.com ,lots of helpful info:)

Nacken23

Polkie2009 wrote: »

First off did you do the crawl test for placement? Follow all the instructions when setting up the antimode? usually , you'll just have to deal with various room nulls at certain frequencies etc. check out the site RealTraps.com ,lots of helpful info:)

Yes i tried that I now have the sub in the front of the room and sounds better to me but the output at 30-50hz range is still the same

Yes i setup antimode was pretty easy and then ran audssey and it did make it better but I am just reading other people info on their subs and they all seem to have way more output between the 30-50hz range mine is so low compared to theres:mad:

Im just wondering what am I doing wrong I know you have to add a few db onto your spl reading on low frequencies when your done to make a graph of your subs responce but the difference is so huge between the readings I get it wouldnt make a difference

Nacken23

Polkie2009 wrote: »

First off did you do the crawl test for placement? Follow all the instructions when setting up the antimode? Usually, you'll just have to deal with various room nulls at certain frequencies etc., lots of variables when it comes to room acoustics. Check out the site RealTraps.com ,lots of helpful info:)

Thanks for that website I checked it out but see I dont / cant spend any more money to fix this I thought there would be another way to fix it without spending any more euros but if not I will have to get used to the sound I have then I suppose.

Polkie2009

I didn't realize you're running antimode and__ audyssey. There's info on AVSforum.com under the subwoofer section dealing with audyssey. Maybe someone else here at CP can chime in.

Mon40CSMM10

Under what specific circumstances does the subwoofer sound boomy?

The reason I ask, I just got finished fighting a boomy bass problem with FM radio. Turns out, I believe it's the one specific station that plays mostly pop/rap/hip hop music is mixing with more pronounced bass drum and less midbass when compared to other FM radio stations.

If I switch to a station that plays mostly classic rock and metal, the midbass is very good and not overpowering and the drums sound true and not overexaggerated. If I switch to station that plays mostly 80's music and pop, the midbass is great and the bass drum is not overpowering, it's just the right amount of thump, click, pop, or boom (depending on the bass drum the song uses) and sometimes it sounds subdued compared to the pop/rap/hip hop station. If I switch back to that pop/rap/hip hop station--there's the lack of midbass with the very pronounced bass drum again, so it's the radio station--not the setup--that I've determined to be the problem. This is shown even more if I switch the AVR to two-channel direct mode (bypassing any digital processing) and the bass drums are still boomy on that one FM radio station--direct mode is supposed to be the pure unprocessed source using only Left, Right, and Subwoofer (if connected).

There's no other problem with the music that pop/rap/hip hop station plays other than the apparent mixing of it (well, and that the rotation seems to be the same songs every two or so hours rather than more of a vareity of songs before playing the most popular ones later at night). They may be optimizing for the best sound from car stereos rather than home stereos, I think.

Therefore, verify that the source material where the subwoofer sounds boomy isn't the root cause of the problem.

tonyb

I thought in another thread you had it straightened out ?

If you don't mind, could you list the crossover settings in the avr and your associated gear. You may just be experiencing some standing wave issues due to placement, the room itself. Also, make sure the crossover on the back of the sub is turned all the way up so as not to introduce a double filtering. Am I to also understand your running the 15's with an avr ? If so, do yourself a favor and scout out a used amp.

100 hz is too high for the 15's imho. Go into the setup menu of the avr, set your crossover at 80, speakers to small, speaker levels at 0, sub level at 0. See how it sounds. You can always manually adjust these settings to your taste. Make sure you also setup each individual inputs on the receiver. Granted, I didn't read all your posts on this so some issues may have been resolved already.

Nacken23

tonyb wrote: »

I thought in another thread you had it straightened out ?

If you don't mind, could you list the crossover settings in the avr and your associated gear. You may just be experiencing some standing wave issues due to placement, the room itself. Also, make sure the crossover on the back of the sub is turned all the way up so as not to introduce a double filtering. Am I to also understand your running the 15's with an avr ? If so, do yourself a favor and scout out a used amp.

100 hz is too high for the 15's imho. Go into the setup menu of the avr, set your crossover at 80, speakers to small, speaker levels at 0, sub level at 0. See how it sounds. You can always manually adjust these settings to your taste. Make sure you also setup each individual inputs on the receiver. Granted, I didn't read all your posts on this so some issues may have been resolved already.

Yes I had the lsi15 at 80hz before so I now set it back to that Im running the 15s with a two channel Rotel amp 500watts@4ohms.
The rest of the speakers are small audyssey set them to 150hz.

Anyway I see the antimode i bought has two boost options one at 25hz other at 35hz I tried the 35hz boost and then checked tones with the DVE disc the 30hz is now at 50db up to about 50hz so its alot more even now .
Then I tried some movies and its sounds much better alot less boomy and I notice the room shakes more instead which is a good thing:biggrin:

kuntasensei

I wouldn't trust DVE. Not sure about the Blu-ray version, but the DVD had some wildly inaccurate test tones. Look around for a test tone generator and make your own tones, or poke around and find a CD of test tones.

Polkie2009

I think Ethan has one on his site you can download for free.

Tbone289

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I think Ethan has one on his site you can download for free.

Who is Ethan? Link?

Polkie2009

Sorry T, it's Ethan Winer, owner of RealTraps.com. His site offers excellent acoustic treatment products and very helpful advice and info on setting up your room. great guy to deal with.

Tbone289

Thx man. I'm familiar with RealTraps, but not with Ethan's name.

thsmith

Check out REW at hometheatershack.com. Best free program out there to setup you sub.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Requirements
◦REW requires V5.0 or later of the Java Runtime Environment, available from http://www.java.com for Windows and Linux platforms.
◦REW has been written and tested under Windows XP and Windows 7, most features should work correctly on other platforms that support Oracle's Java Runtime Environment, except for RS232 serial communications (only used to communicate with TAG McLaren Audio AV32R DP and AV192R AV Processors) which only function on Windows platforms. It has also been tested under Windows Vista and Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 (OS X 10.5 Leopard or later recommended).
◦Midi communication (used to set filters on Behringer BFD Pro DSP1124P and FBQ2496 equalisers) is supported on Windows platforms. Linux platforms will require Tritonus to support Midi comms. Mac OS X platforms with J2SE V5.0 installed should support Midi but don't appear to, for Midi support use the Mandolane Midi SPI.
◦Minimum screen resolution: 800 x 600, 1024 x 768 or greater recommended
◦Minimum RAM: 512MB, 2GB or more recommended

27dnast

^^^ I agree with the above. I'm in the middle of eq-ing my sub with the REW software. I'm using the REW software. My room has a massive peak that I thought I could hear (but wasn't sure if it was just my sub).

I bought a used Berhinger Frequency Destroyer on ebay for $60... that, when it arrives will help me tame the sub issues illustrated by the REW software.

To run the software, you'll need a computer (mac or pc), a SPL that they recommend (I'm using the Radio Shack digital SPL that has it's issues... but works for the average user and the REW software has a calibration file that you download for the radio shack spl that automatically corrects it's issues), the appropriate cords, and an external sound card if you laptop or pc is lacking in the internal sound card department (my macbook pro internal card works fine). You do not need midi communication because, technically, you can manually set the EQ settings on the feedback destroyer. But, the REW is written to communicate with the feedback destroyer through a midi interface if you so choose.

The hometheatershack.com has extensive threads on the Feedback Destroyer and how to use it... and is where you download the REW software. I would give it a whirl if I were you.

27dnast

In terms of the dBs for specific frequencies... check out this article on the 'house curve'

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/96-house-curve-what-why-you-need-how-do.html

thsmith

Alright ! Someone else that gets it ! ^^^^^^

27dnast

Just to give you an idea of the mess I'm dealing with (in terms of frequency response with my sub)...

The left Axis is dBs... bottom axis is frequency. Green line is phase at 0 and the red line is phase at 180.

You can see a massive peak in the ultra low frequencies that dominate the room... and then a null around the x-over point.

I've always thought that I heard this... the REW software has shown it to me. Consequently, I've run a ton of measurements using different sub positions, changing phase, adding in a second sub... etc. It's awesome to see the instant changes to frequency response at the primary listening position.

Once my Frequency Destroyer arrives, I can use the data and graph plots to dial in the FD and hopefully cure some ills.

Anyhow, up until now, taking the time to get the REW up and running and calibrating all the equipment to make the measurements has been worth it.

thsmith

You do have some work to do, for sure.

27dnast

tell me about it...:frown:

Nacken23

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Sorry T, it's Ethan Winer, owner of RealTraps.com. His site offers excellent acoustic treatment products and very helpful advice and info on setting up your room. great guy to deal with.

Thanks I downloaded the test tones from that site and made a CD. When I tested it out my readings were way different to the DVE disc every tone all the way through was in the range between 75db-80db.

LoL between 10-30hz was crazy everthing was moving windows rattling never heard that before:biggrin:

I have another question though when I run audyssey its sets my sub to -12db
Is this ok as the lowest limit is -15 on my receiver.
I turn it up aferwards on the receiver(onkyo876) level calbration up to almost +10db but even at that level it reads 65db with the receivers sub tone.
Should it be 75db I thought?

Polkie2009

Have read on the AVS site similar situation happening to folks with subs running Audyssey on their system. They say Audyssey sets their sub level too low. I can partially understand that it's trying to be eq'd with the rest of the speakers in the system, maybe we're all used to wanting to hear "more bass" like "more cowbell",lol. I've been holding off getting a pre/pro ( a number of them seem to use the Audyssey feature) and I don't beleive Pioneer Elite sells a stand alone pre/pro now. Wish they did. Have heard nothing but good results from people who are using their Pioneer Elite AVR's with the MCACC feature.

Nacken23

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Have read on the AVS site similar situation happening to folks with subs running Audyssey on their system. They say Audyssey sets their sub level too low. I can partially understand that it's trying to be eq'd with the rest of the speakers in the system, maybe we're all used to wanting to hear "more bass" like "more cowbell",lol. I've been holding off getting a pre/pro ( a number of them seem to use the Audyssey feature) and I don't beleive Pioneer Elite sells a stand alone pre/pro now. Wish they did. Have heard nothing but good results from people who are using their Pioneer Elite AVR's with the MCACC feature.

Yes no such thing as too much bass:biggrin: tested some parts of war of the worlds bluray there sounded really good I think the boomy kind of bass I was getting was from bad sound quality movies more than any thing else.

Also black ops on ps3 not as good sound as it should be given the huge budget they had to make the game even some small mini games downloaded onto the PS3 sound much much better.

Polkie2009

Speaking of games on the PS3, there's a part on Battlefield Bad Company 2 where a sattelite falls to Earth and blows up. The audio in this scene will literally sound and feel like your house just got blown off of it's foundation. One of the characters in the game,I think it's Haggard, says something like, "That is the greatest thing I have ever seen in my entire life".

Nacken23

Polkie2009 wrote: »

Speaking of games on the PS3, there's a part on Battlefield Bad Company 2 where a sattelite falls to Earth and blows up. The audio in this scene will literally sound and feel like your house just got blown off of it's foundation. One of the characters in the game,I think it's Haggard, says something like, "That has got to be the greatest thing i have ever seen in my entire life".

Haha might have to buy it just for that.
Was just checking the lsi15s polarity or is it phase not sure with a trick I read on other forum saying to use a battery and see if the woofer goes in or out I think.
Anyway both were going inward so I switched wires so they would go outward as my sub is at 0 degree phase is this correct way to have it?
Anyway I tried a movie and thought it was alot clearer overall or is my imagination:rolleyes: do I now have them in correct phase or did I do the opposite?

kuntasensei

I can't speak for the PS3 version of Black Ops, but the 360 version has an option under Audio Settings where you set it to HOME THEATER and LOUD. You might check the PS3 version for similar settings. Definitely no lack of bass in that game! Grenades go deep enough to trigger the Buttkicker under my couch!

Polkie2009

The game is a lot of fun,you'll enjoy it. I forgot that the lsi15 have the built in subs, sounds like you got the battery polarity test with the + terminal on battery to + speaker post etc. and cone going outward. As for the phase setting, maybe someone else with a set of these will chime in. I would guess set the phase to what sounds like the strongest bass?

Nacken23

Ok so I have been reading more about the lsi15s and someone said the woofers on them were probably designed to fire inward anyone know if this is correct?
If so do I set my subwoofer phase at 180 to fire inward to match them as my sub is in the front of the room with the lsi15s.

Tbone289

Nacken23 wrote: »

If so do I set my subwoofer phase at 180 to fire inward to match them as my sub is in the front of the room with the lsi15s.

Set the phase to the setting that gives you the best bass response at frequencies close to the crossover setting.

Nacken23

Tbone289 wrote: »

Set the phase to the setting that gives you the best bass response at frequencies close to the crossover setting.

Ok I try that later thanks.