leaving tubes on

leftwinger57
leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
edited July 2011 in 2 Channel Audio
Hi ,Once again there is a subject that I just can not fully understand. Not being a true tube, audio guy or knowing anything between a KT-88 AND a AU 66 or blackplate tubes please excuse the novice talk that might get by a house wife but not a one of you.
The question here is that the concensus is to leave your rigs on all day long and even longer which to me goes against all that was learned about electricity and as it gets hotter it burns. Now if there are measures the prevent this and Iam so oblivious to this I apologise. If some one could send me a paper at my e-mail addressmaybe Iwill try to absorb what is going on here.Thanks, Iknow Ican bea pain but thats' the way Ilearn by asking either intelleigent or stupid questions. Thanks a bunch

Lewdworet@aim.com
2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2011
    Tube amps become stable and really change their presentation after about 45 min to an hour. They become big and open sounding. Preamps can take a lot longer to stabilize to temperature. There is no need really to ask the question on a particular piece of equipment because when it happens you can hear it.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited July 2011
    I left my Tube preamp on most of the time. Like madmax said they can and usually do take longer to stabilize and sound as they should.

    I turned my tube amps on 1-2 hours before I listen to them. I shoot for 2 hours but anytime after an hour was usually enough for them to sound like they should.

    If I just came in the house and turned everything on at once and started playing music right away it sounded very poor. Tubes can be awesome but they take some planning and patience, but in the end you are rewarded with wonderful, immersing sound.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,034
    edited July 2011
    It depends on the voltage of said tube and whether or not it's a power tube or lower voltage tube. For me? If it's an amp, it gets powered down unless I plan on listening to it within and hour or two.

    For tubed gear like my pre and CDP that take a while to warm up? I leave it on 24/7, unless I'm know I'm not going to listen to the rig for a couple of days or more. There are some tubed pieces that have a "standby" which will keep the tubes warm when the unit is powered down. This, will speed up the warm up time or possibly eliminate the warm up time with some gear.

    My advice would be to contact the manufacturer of said item and ask them what they think because a lot of it depends on the circuit design. It has been mentioned before [and I agree], you will know from the sound when it is at optimal operating temperature and you can adjust your needs to your specific gear and situation from there.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2011
    I don't leave anything on 24/7 but fully subscribe to the fact that gear needs an hour to two hours MINIMUM to achieve some solid, linear sound. If I know I'm prepping for a listening session with friends or a show for example, I'd run the gear for as long as possible before actually spinning music.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2011
    My Manley pre...about 15 mins and it's pretty much as good as it gets. The Heathkits, about an hour.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2011
    Ronco Troy?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2011
    Set it and forget it....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2011
    Tubes do have a life, so I turn them off when not in use. I used to have a hybrid class D amp that I did leave on however because of the low energy usage combined with the very long life and low replacement cost of a single 6922.
    Jake
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  • stuwee
    stuwee Posts: 1,508
    edited July 2011
    I would never, ever leave an older unit that hasn't been serviced in awhile on and leave the room for more than a few minutes, and never leave the house with it on. This goes for new to you, untested before as well. To risky, fire bad! :frown:

    Also with the older gear, a Variac warmup is a must if it's been unused for a while for some guys, but I've never used one.
    Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,034
    edited July 2011
    Well, obviously the cost of the tubes would play a role as well.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,034
    edited July 2011
    stuwee wrote: »
    I would never, ever leave an older unit that hasn't been serviced in awhile on and leave the room for more than a few minutes, and never leave the house with it on. This goes for new to you, untested before as well. To risky, fire bad! :frown:
    Well, might as well throw new gear in there as well. Did you see the thread about the fire in one of the [SS, not even tube...] amps at Trey's pad? :eek:
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,575
    edited July 2011
    Right, tube amps get turned off when not around. Pre's and CDP's with tubes can stay on 24/7.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Right, tube amps get turned off when not around. Pre's and CDP's with tubes can stay on 24/7.

    +1 ,not to mention that tube smell,,kinda hard to describe,,but once you know it,,you'll never forget--in a good way.:smile:
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • punk-roc
    punk-roc Posts: 1,150
    edited July 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Right, tube amps get turned off when not around. Pre's and CDP's with tubes can stay on 24/7.

    This is assuming you don't care about tube life in those CDPs and Pres? Just clarifying for my own information

    Jason
    2-Channel - So far...
    Pre: Dodd ELP
    DAC: W4S-Dac2
    Source(s): Computer and Denon 2910
    Amp: Parasound HCA-1200II
    Speakers: LSi9s - Vr3 Fortress Mod
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,575
    edited July 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    +1 ,not to mention that tube smell,,kinda hard to describe,,but once you know it,,you'll never forget--in a good way.:smile:

    Hot glass...yeah man!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,575
    edited July 2011
    punk-roc wrote: »
    This is assuming you don't care about tube life in those CDPs and Pres? Just clarifying for my own information

    Jason

    There is that, but it will vary from piece to piece and tube to tube. Signal tubes, in general, last a very long time. I've got a pair of 12AX7's in one CDP that have been going for something like 6 years straight.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    There is that, but it will vary from piece to piece and tube to tube. Signal tubes, in general, last a very long time. I've got a pair of 12AX7's in one CDP that have been going for something like 6 years straight.

    Also, I've had a few preamps which had to be on for 3 days before they sounded like they should. I left them on 24/7 regardless of tube cost because if they never sound their best then what is the point. :smile:
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • punk-roc
    punk-roc Posts: 1,150
    edited July 2011
    That's good to know.. I find myself not using my Dodd ELP as much as I would want since I can't get it warmed up all the time.. Maybe I'll try just leaving it on for a while..

    Thanks =)

    Jason
    2-Channel - So far...
    Pre: Dodd ELP
    DAC: W4S-Dac2
    Source(s): Computer and Denon 2910
    Amp: Parasound HCA-1200II
    Speakers: LSi9s - Vr3 Fortress Mod
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  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
    edited July 2011
    yes,I understand that the tunes do sound be
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2011
    punk-roc wrote: »
    That's good to know.. I find myself not using my Dodd ELP as much as I would want since I can't get it warmed up all the time.. Maybe I'll try just leaving it on for a while..

    Thanks =)

    Jason

    Some preamp manufacturers set it up so the filament heaters stay on at half power when the preamp is turned off, that helps a lot.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
    edited July 2011
    Sorry never finished my thought,After hearing all you guys leaving your tube gear on for extentented periods of time I started to wonder. Is there a saftety factor involved here ,god forbid your rig is close to your sound defussers or worse some of your window treatments. Any worries about fire or that a cap would leak and cause some damage. I just see something awful happening when your cleaning girl bumps into the rig.I truely am pessemistic but only for your safety.
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited July 2011
    leftwinger57 wrote: »
    Sorry never finished my thought,After hearing all you guys leaving your tube gear on for extentented periods of time I started to wonder. Is there a saftety factor involved here ,god forbid your rig is close to your sound defussers or worse some of your window treatments. Any worries about fire or that a cap would leak and cause some damage. I just see something awful happening when your cleaning girl bumps into the rig.I truely am pessemistic but only for your safety.
    I would not recommend leaving a tube power amp running if you are not at home because of the potential for a fire :wink: in a tube buffer / CDP / Preamplifier the tubes dont run very hard but if they are very expensive 10.000 hr holy grail type tubes 24/7 seems a bit wasteful
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • Poee7R
    Poee7R Posts: 904
    edited July 2011
    I run tubes in both rigs and I never leave them on unless being used.

    Luckily they dont sound bad when cold, but they absolutely get better as an hour or two goes by and they warm up.

    Sometimes I actually like to hear the bloom that happens when they get warmed up, lets me know I can still hear a difference, making all the costs worthwhile.


    Dave
    Once again we meet at last.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited July 2011
    I've owned pre-amps with 2 to 10 tubes as part of the signal path and the last thing I'm going to do with a 10 tube pre-amp is leave it on 24/7. I've never been in that much of a hurry to listen to music that I couldn't wait an hour.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited July 2011
    That's also a good point Poee7R. Sometimes listening to the system coming into it's own is cool. Plus it keeps the ears on alert for anything amiss or wonky.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,178
    edited July 2011
    I never leave tubes on when I'm not home or if I'm going to be out of the house for extended periods of time, ie; out on the deck, mowing the lawn, putzing around in the garage. You get my drift. I usually try and power up anything tube related about an hour before listening if I can, which is almost always.

    But I also will only turn on tubes if I'm going to listen for an extended period of time or will atleast be around in the house for an extended period of time. You won't find me powering up tubes for a 30 minute listening session, etc. That's why I love the fact I can run my tubed pre thru the processor loop/HT bypass on the GFP-750 because if it's not a serious or extended listening session I just run the GFP-750 solid state pre instead of tubes.

    In the office rig I have 3 tube integrated's and for short listening session I use the hybrid Dared MP-5 rather than the full blown EL34 or 6V6 based units.

    It's not good to turn tubes off and on all the time for short durations. It shortens tube life and it's not good for the gear.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2011
    leftwinger57 wrote: »
    Sorry never finished my thought,After hearing all you guys leaving your tube gear on for extentented periods of time I started to wonder. Is there a saftety factor involved here ,god forbid your rig is close to your sound defussers or worse some of your window treatments. Any worries about fire or that a cap would leak and cause some damage. I just see something awful happening when your cleaning girl bumps into the rig.I truely am pessemistic but only for your safety.

    Don't sit your tube amp under the drapes. :biggrin:
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
    edited July 2011
    Guys ,the response has been fantatstic,props for the guys who leave their rigs on for extended times but also are around the house, and when warm up is done it's tune time. As some of you know I'm a ss guy
    but would be willing to try a tubed pre if I knew what I was doing and then if a clearly different sound was heard....lw
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,034
    edited July 2011
    Oh, there will definitely be a different sound. Now, as to whether or not it is a good sound depends on the pre itself and the associated tube compliment.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited July 2011
    Those that say they have never left tubes on must have never had a TV prior to this last decade. Tube TVs had orange glows 24/7.

    I do like to let my 7 tube preamp warmup, but never left it on overnight on purpose.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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