Borders is dead

Demiurge

If Borders is dead, they aren't properly serving a need anymore and someone else is. Sucks if you worked for them in this job market.

sucks2beme

The interesting part of this is that only about 20% of books are sold
via download. Amazon has taken a share, too But either way,
their management wasn't keeping up with what worked and what didn't.
Given that downloads cost about what real books cost just a couple of years ago,
I think the library is sounding better and better. Why does a book
with no printing costs, no shipping cost, cost that much?
I think we are getting screwed, all the while thinking how great it is
we can "instantly" get what we want.

heiney9

sucks2beme wrote: »

Why does a book
with no printing costs, no shipping cost, cost that much?
I think we are getting screwed, all the while thinking how great it is
we can "instantly" get what we want.

The same as a digital music downloads, little to no costs in printing, burning and distributing yet downloads cost as much or more than a physical cd in a store.

H9

bobman1235

sucks2beme wrote: »

Why does a book
with no printing costs, no shipping cost, cost that much?
I think we are getting screwed, all the while thinking how great it is
we can "instantly" get what we want.

People do WRITE those books, you know, and hopefully get compensated so they'll continue to do so (see also : movies, music). I'm sure we're getting screwed, but just because it's easier to get content doesn't mean the cost of it goes away.

heiney9

bobman1235 wrote: »

but just because it's easier to get content doesn't mean the cost of it goes away.

It should decrease because the printing, burning, shipping, part of the promotion, etc, etc,etc to B&M stores is no longer an expense. Even if it's a couple bucks, the perception is far greater than to leave it the same retail price, savvy consumers know the goods are cheaper to deliver.

I get very irked when a digital download is more than the physical media. I understand indirect costs of settting up a server and server space, etc, etc, etc. But come on, their distribution costs on average are cheaper doig it digitally than with physical product. God forbid they pass that savings onto the consumer.

H9

tonyb

If you guys think the long term objective is to give you the same product at a cheaper price...for you, your sadly mistaken.

heiney9

Yeah Tony, I know, but I can wish, can't I?

That's why I continue to be extremely selective in buying movies, books, and music. If it were cheaper I'd buy more and take more chances, but with the current model I refuse to line the SOB's pockets unless it's something I really, really want.

I tend to buy all that stuff used. Eff 'em, I'm not paying the same price for a digital download they charge for physical product, when I know it's cheaper for them to provide. Cut them out completely by buying used or renting and still get the enjoyment out of the product.

Eff 'em!

H9

sucks2beme

bobman1235 wrote: »

People do WRITE those books, you know, and hopefully get compensated so they'll continue to do so (see also : movies, music). I'm sure we're getting screwed, but just because it's easier to get content doesn't mean the cost of it goes away.

Yes, I'm over 50 and have a brain. They don't have to print, store, and
distribute. They don't have to worry about overstock. There are costs involved
with electronic distribution. But nothing like real product has.
And they don't have to worry about any of them ending up in used bookstores
and competing against new sales. Margins are going UP.

WilliamM2

heiney9 wrote: »

I get very irked when a digital download is more than the physical media. I understand indirect costs of settting up a server and server space, etc, etc, etc. But come on, their distribution costs on average are cheaper doig it digitally than with physical product.

Not really. CD's when mass produced, cost only $1 or $2 to manufacture and distribute. It's old technology these days. They never lowered the cost to reflect this change either.

tonyb

I like your attitude.:biggrin:

Look gents, the cost between physical media and cyber stuff is going to close rapidly the more people jump on board streaming. The end result will be you pay the same, THEY will benefit from the savings. They have no concern about the costs to you, generally speaking.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Not really. CD's when mass produced, cost only $1 or $2 to manufacture and distribute. It's old technology these days. They never lowered the cost to reflect this change either.

So your telling me that making the physical media, printing the inserts, making the jewel cases, boxing the product up, trucking it all over the US, in some cases paying to have the product prominently displayed, accepting product back and crediting for unused/unsold merchandise, etc, etc, and I'm sure I'm missing some stuff.................................costs the same as providing a digital download or on demand-stream of the same product?

Certain fixed costs will always be there, I understand that.

I highly, highly doubt it.

And you're right, cd prices should have come down years ago and that's part of my Eff 'em campaign.
H9

maximillian

heiney9 wrote: »

So your telling me that making the physical media, printing the inserts, making the jewel cases, boxing the product up, trucking it all over the US, in some cases paying to have the product prominently displayed, accepting product back and crediting for unused/unsold merchandise, etc, etc, and I'm sure I'm missing some stuff.................................costs the same as providing a digital download or on demand-stream of the same product?

Actually, those digital bits sometimes costs more.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/winnie-the-pooh-disney-press/1026900694?ean=9781423135951&itm=2&usri=winnie%2bthe%2bpooh%2bparty%2bin%2bthe%2bwood


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Winnie-the-Pooh/Disney/e/9781423159742/?ean=9781423159742&productcode=ER


Yes, I know that it may be due to the book narration. But I doubt that they got a celebrity or someone demanding a high salary to read it. I have seen this price increase without the added animation too.

tonyb

heiney9 wrote: »

And you're right, cd prices should have come down years ago and that's part of my Eff 'em campaign.
H9

So why didn't they ? Because of no competition, why lower prices if you don't have to. Economics 101. Now streaming will take over and they won't lower prices, they'll only go up. Why ? They have limits on bandwith, and no competition,aside from each other and I'll wait for the price fixing scandels to show up.

Physical media will always have a presence, it has worth,as with anything physical. A cyber song has none, unless stored on a NAS or along those lines. Anything on a computer is basically rented, you own squat. Competition drives prices down to the end user, CD'S were pretty frickin' slow to realize who the competition even was and waited way too long to start discounting disks.

disneyjoe7

Borders never did it for me, so no major lost for me.

heiney9

maximillian wrote: »

Actually, those digital bits sometimes costs more.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/winnie-the-pooh-disney-press/1026900694?ean=9781423135951&itm=2&usri=winnie%2bthe%2bpooh%2bparty%2bin%2bthe%2bwood


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Winnie-the-Pooh/Disney/e/9781423159742/?ean=9781423159742&productcode=ER


Yes, I know that it may be due to the book narration. But I doubt that they got a celebrity or someone demanding a high salary to read it. I have seen this price increase without the added animation too.

Not that I'm condoning the gross difference in price, but you are getting more for your money with the digital book, but not for twice the price. They are also capitalizing on the current trend for e-Reader's and people willingness to pay through the nose.

I get that...................there is demand so they can get those kind of prices, but I'm tired of the music industry bitching about flat sales, this is a direct result of them ripping people off for a decade or more. It's coming back to bite them in the **** and the same will happen once the "digital" revolution takes hold and the novelty wears off and people realize they are being overcharged.

*off soapbox*

H9

heiney9

tonyb wrote: »

So why didn't they ? Because of no competition, why lower prices if you don't have to. Economics 101. Now streaming will take over and they won't lower prices, they'll only go up. Why ? They have limits on bandwith, and no competition,aside from each other and I'll wait for the price fixing scandels to show up.

Physical media will always have a presence, it has worth,as with anything physical. A cyber song has none, unless stored on a NAS or along those lines. Anything on a computer is basically rented, you own squat. Competition drives prices down to the end user, CD'S were pretty frickin' slow to realize who the competition even was and waited way too long to start discounting disks.

Tony, the music industry has had flat sales for the past 5 years and IMO it's the direct result of ripping people off for decades. It's coming back to bite them in the ****.

H9

WilliamM2

heiney9 wrote: »

So your telling me that making the physical media, printing the inserts, making the jewel cases, boxing the product up, trucking it all over the US, in some cases paying to have the product prominently displayed, accepting product back and crediting for unused/unsold merchandise, etc, etc, and I'm sure I'm missing some stuff.................................costs the same as providing a digital download or on demand-stream of the same product?

Certain fixed costs will always be there, I understand that.

I highly, highly doubt it.

And you're right, cd prices should have come down years ago and that's part of my Eff 'em campaign.
H9

No, I agree that CD's cost more to distribute, it's just that the difference isn't all that much, and wouldn't be much of a savings. Supposedly we are paying for all the artists that they lose money on, otherwise they couldn't discover new "talent".

I agree that CD's should have come down long ago. I remember when they first came out at $30 each, and then dropping to about $15 in a year or two, and they've stayed there ever since (in retail stores). Half the CD's I buy now don't even come with real cases, just cardboard. They are ripping us off.

headrott

I went into the Salem, Oregon Borders after seeing they had a huge sign saying "going out of business" on the front of the store. The first thing I looked at were blu rays. They were selling them at 40% off (as I stated earlier in this thread, list price). Still some good deals to be had, I got David Gilmour's "Remember that night" on BD for $19.77. I got Kubrik's "Dr. Strangelove" for $13.96. And "The Sound of Music" for $19.77. Not bad for a couple of those. The "Sound of Music" BD was about a sale price at other places, but not a bad price at all.

Their CD's were at 20% off, but my bloodsugar started getting low and I had to go eat. I looked only a little, but did not pick anything up. You guys should head to your local Border's to see if they are doing the same thing. There may be some good deals to be had.

Greg

sucks2beme

I don't go to store closings any more. They have liquidation companies
running it. All prices go back to normal, and then slowly drop over
a month. Anything worth having goes in the 1st discount run, often
at prices the same or even higher than before. Then they start giving
big discounts for the worthless crap. Maybe it's different outside the
sprawl that is DFW, but around here, not worth it. I did stop at a Border's
closing a couple of months ago because I was next door. Waste of time.

WilliamM2

sucks2beme wrote: »

I don't go to store closings any more. They have liquidation companies
running it. All prices go back to normal, and then slowly drop over
a month. Anything worth having goes in the 1st discount run, often
at prices the same or even higher than before. Then they start giving
big discounts for the worthless crap. Maybe it's different outside the
sprawl that is DFW, but around here, not worth it. I did stop at a Border's
closing a couple of months ago because I was next door. Waste of time.

That's the way it goes around here as well.

polkatese

sucks2beme wrote: »

I don't go to store closings any more. They have liquidation companies
running it. All prices go back to normal, and then slowly drop over
a month. Anything worth having goes in the 1st discount run, often
at prices the same or even higher than before. Then they start giving
big discounts for the worthless crap. Maybe it's different outside the
sprawl that is DFW, but around here, not worth it. I did stop at a Border's
closing a couple of months ago because I was next door. Waste of time.

You nailed it. That's exactly the scam anytime any chains have those big liquidation sale up. True with Circuit City, CompUSA, Good Guys, and the rest. I proved it by actually buying some small items in these sales and then checked out other places or online for similar items. Never fails.

bobman1235

headrott wrote: »

I went into the Salem, Oregon Borders after seeing they had a huge sign saying "going out of business" on the front of the store. The first thing I looked at were blu rays. They were selling them at 40% off (as I stated earlier in this thread, list price). Still some good deals to be had, I got David Gilmour's "Remember that night" on BD for $19.77. I got Kubrik's "Dr. Strangelove" for $13.96. And "The Sound of Music" for $19.77. Not bad for a couple of those. The "Sound of Music" BD was about a sale price at other places, but not a bad price at all.

I'll be honest, none of those prices sound good at all. Any time I've managed to get a BD on sale (which is pretty much the only time I'll buy them) it's been... 10-15 dollars.

headrott

bobman1235 wrote: »

I'll be honest, none of those prices sound good at all. Any time I've managed to get a BD on sale (which is pretty much the only time I'll buy them) it's been... 10-15 dollars.

Bob,

If you look at the google search prices. The best I could find for the Gilmour blu ray was $19.98 plus $4.98 shipping. However, I am not saying you could not find it for less, but the best I think you will do is break even with shipping included.

The "Dr. Strangelove" blu ray was easily in your "on sale" price range at $13.96.

As I said, the "Sound of Music" blu ray was not an awesome deal, but not bad.

It really depends on which blu ray one is buying that determines the deal you are getting. Some blu rays sell for much more than others. A good example of that being the Gilmour one. So, considering the prices on the Gilmour and Dr. Strangelove blu rays, I think those two were a good deal. the Sound of music was not great, but not bad.

Greg

cheddar

headrott wrote: »

Bob,

If you look at the google search prices. The best I could find for the Gilmour blu ray was $19.98 plus $4.98 shipping. However, I am not saying you could not find it for less, but the best I think you will do is break even with shipping included.

The "Dr. Strangelove" blu ray was easily in your "on sale" price range at $13.96.

As I said, the "Sound of Music" blu ray was not an awesome deal, but not bad.

It really depends on which blu ray one is buying that determines the deal you are getting. Some blu rays sell for much more than others. A good example of that being the Gilmour one. So, considering the prices on the Gilmour and Dr. Strangelove blu rays, I think those two were a good deal. the Sound of music was not great, but not bad.

Greg

Those aren't bad prices for an impulse buy. But if you're looking for the best deal, it's usually impossible to beat Amazon. Prices fluctuate daily. So spot prices on any given day may be more. But if you sign up at a site like blu-ray.com for price alerts on your favorite movies, it's almost guaranteed that over the next few months many titles will drop into the unbelievable deal range between now and the next Christmas buying season. Strangelove was $12.99 at BB in the past and at Amazon it dropped to $8.99. Both appear to be Christmas specials in 2009 and then again in 2010. And then you have to lump near 10% sales tax in many states and it's really hard to beat Amazon. These Borders' blu-ray prices still can't beat Amazon on a good day even at 40% off retail.

tonyb

Borders is dead ???

So then we are a country without Borders ? So to speak...yuk...yuk.

TECHNOKID

tonyb wrote: »

Borders is dead ???

So then we are a country without Borders ? So to speak...yuk...yuk.

...and we Canucks are about to take over from this country without borders (so to speak of course...)!

cheddar

Noticed Strangelove just dropped to $11.49 at Amazon in case anyone missed the "sale" at Borders...