Anybody ever seen one of these?

Jstas

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=T1951&lang=eng



Anybody have any experience with them?

gidrah

I've got tubes and I've got a parametric EQ, but I don't have a tubed parametric EQ.

Tour2ma

Well you can now... $189 in US...

No, can't say as I have Jstas. 4 bands is pretty limited for an Eq and somehow the "purity" of tubes and an Eq seem contradictory to me.

Interesting though...

gidrah

$189 sounds good to me. I paid more than that for mine. 4 bands in a parametric is fairly good.

Someday I'll find a parametric that has the option of individual inputs per band. Coupled with an adjustable EQ, this would be the quad amping DIYer dream.

Jstas

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Well you can now... $189 in US...

No, can't say as I have Jstas. 4 bands is pretty limited for an Eq and somehow the "purity" of tubes and an Eq seem contradictory to me.

Interesting though...

Take a closer look at it. It is pretty interesting. You can not only adjust frequency and level on each band like a transistor based EQ but, you can adjust bandwidth which can greatly reduce distortion and clipping that is inherent in tube circuits.

It is a kind of crude way to think of it but, think of a CB radio. They have internal filters for squelch and frequency modulation and such to limit noise and cross-band intereference and such. This EQ will give you filters like that and will not only boost frequencies but can limit them also. So if your tube amp is only capable of producing say 30 Hz to 18 kHz then you can switch the EQ to the shelving filters and basically create a band-pass crossover network with the high and low shelving filters. Put that behind a pre-amp for your stereo speakers and if you have a "sub out" on the pre-amp, you could add an amp and sub to cover the very low end.

Anyway, I will soon be the proud owner of one for a mere 100 dollars plus 9 dollars shipping.

gidrah

Is that offer open to the public via link? My SAE has seen better days.

Jstas

Nope.

A guy I know from another message board about cars mentioned he was upgrading his tube amp setup and he was getting rid of this unit because he wasn't going to need it anymore. He asked if anyone wanted it before he eBay'ed it and I inquired about it. After researching further, I thought it would be a neat piece of equipment to add to my burgeoning collection. I'll put it to good use, certainly. I do not think he has anymore though. This was just a post to see if anyone knew anything about the piece of equipment. Part of the research process. I wasn't trying to rub it in or anything and sorry to dissappoint.

Jstas

I fianlly got it today! I got home at about 4:30-5 pm and saw the box and grabbed and opened it. After checking to make sure it was otay, I ran out to Radio Shack to pick up another patch cable and some mono-phono to rca phono adapters. I plugged it all together and hooked it up to an old Sansui I have. It sound pretty good. I fiddled with it a bit and got it to an acceptable level with a pair of Electro-Voice speakers on the Sansui.

Then, just for **** and giggles, I hooked it up to that Antique Electronics Supply tube amp I built. I left the pre-amp and EQ and such hooked up and got some feedback. I reduced teh gain on the EQ and got rid of most of it and it sound good and powerful. But then I took my Sony Car Discman and put fresh batteries in. This Discman has a 2V line-out jack in addition to the head phone jack. I plugged teh EQ into the tube amp and the Discman into the EQ. I tried the headphone jack first and got acceptable results. Then I plugged the EQ into the line-out jack and played Kiss of Life off of Sade's The Best of Sade album. It sounded good. But rather than use such a quiet track, I grabbed my Sixpence None The Richer CD and put the song Kiss Me on repeat. Then I sat for 2 hours and dialed in the EQ. When I finally hit a sweet spot, I started changing CDs. I listened to Willie Nelson's Revolutions of Time ...The journey 1975-1993, 2nd disc, then the Sade disc again, the The Beatles #1 disc then Genetic World by Telepopmusik and then The Very best of the Rascals. At that point, I realized that it was about 10:45 and I had totally forgotten to eat dinner and goto the bathroom. Then I realized that the room was about 15 degrees hotter from all the electronics running. Then I realized that this EQ was a total freaking steal!

This thing is incredible! I have it running the shelving filters instead of the EQ but there is just as much adjustability as with the EQ. It made an incredible difference and the depth and clarity of the sound of that tube EQ running through that 140 dollar tube amp was incredible! Defintly worth every penny I paid and then some! I highly recommend this unit if you want to run a 2 channel rig either tube or solid state. At 300 bucks retail, it is worth way more. I feel like I robbed the guy I bought it from! I'm going to grab another 140 dollar amp and either a CD or DVD player and that is it. Maybe a tuner/pre-amp if I can find one cheap. The setup is so simple yet so rich and deep and expansive. Incredible sound for such a modest rig. I can only imagine what it would do for a higher end system.

I wonder if George will let me hook it up to his Carvers?

organ

Glad to hear you're enjoying the new toy Jstas. Congrats.
Instead of grabbing another amp first, I suggest upgrading the Discman to a CD only player. I had my Sony Discman hooked up to my rig a long time ago when my Pioneer LD player took a crap on me. I didn't enjoy the sound at all. A CD player will have a superior DAC compared to a Discman. Since you're really into tubes, you might want to take a look at a tube CD player or a transport with a tube DAC. You'll probably have to spend another 2 hours playing around with the EQ because the CD player will sound different. If the EQ can make your Discman sound that good, imagine what a CD player will sound like.

Maurice

Jstas

Where in God's name would I find a tube based CD player? I didn't even think that was possible?

RuSsMaN

Shanling CD-T100 Tube HDCD CD Player

Carver also made some cd players with tube output stages, Carver SD/A-390t was one such unit. I'm fairly certain there were others in the line, and the 't' was the 'tube' designation. I'd check with Mr. Grand to be sure.

Cheers,
Russ

Jstas

Um, 1700 dollars is a little steep for a CD player.

RuSsMaN

AMC with Valve output

I agree, I'm not in a position to even consider $1600 on a single component, not sure that I would anyway.

The AMC above lists for $899, I've seen it get close to $550, when you can find it.

Cheers,
Russ

Jstas

I was actually considering this:

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2002/582/h582MCDTPE-f.jpeg

Henry Kloss Tivoli Model CD

But I can find it anywhere to audition it. I was considering that CD player and grabbing another pre-amp/tuner deal either from eBay or something or a local source.

I was considering that CD player because I can set the amp right on top of it and the pre-amp/tuner and EQ would sit under it. They would be easily stackable and take up little space. I don't want anything fancy for it, just something nice and simple. I'm afraid that if I get to complicated with it all, I will clutter up the sound.

HBombToo

jstas go surfing on audiogon where they always have Cal Audio Tube cd players and dacs for around $300. Good stuff man!

HBomb

Tour2ma

Jstas,
No specs on that CDP, no DAC info, made to mate with a table radio (admittedly the original Kloss table radios were pretty good) and no digital out means you're stuck with its sound.

Something is telling me it's just stylin'... I honestly doubt it's any better than the portable with which you've been playing from a sound standpoint. Just a feeling...

Jstas

The portable is much better than what you guys are giving it credit for. It is only a Discman but it is not a regular Discman. It has a 2V line level out and is meant to interface on a component level for a car stereo. It is old but it is far from junk. It cost me 250 dollars when I got it about 8 years ago because of it's component level outputs. The CD player also has a signal range of 20-22,000Hz and at the line level, it will send the entire range of signal.

I'm not really concerned about a digital out considering I don't have a digital in on a pre-amp or a DAC. However, that Tivoli CD player will mate to anything, not just the radio that it matches. The company website says so and the Crutchfield page says it somewhere in there too. I also saw the owner's manual and it is stated clearly in there too. I'm, also not concerned at all about being "stuck" with the sound that comes out of it because the output will be sent through an equalizer and pre-amp that will allow me to adjust settings to compensate for a weak signal.

I'm trying to keep the cost down because I really don't have the money for an all-out audio rig right now. The space is an issue too because I am planning on bringing one of the setups to work where my desk space is limited. So size and expense is an issue. I don't want somebody ripping off a 300-400 dollar CD player. Even though it is unlikely to happen, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting high dollar stuff on my desk at work. I'm also trying to get a house and pay for a wedding so cheap components are in my best interests. But if I can grab high quality used stuff at good prices, I will. I'm just trying to make due with what I have.

I'll go check out audiogon though and see what's doin'.

Tour2ma

Henry wasn't dissin' your portable, just building on your new found love of tubes and suggesting a different path.

I wasn't dissin' your portable. Just saying I get no feeling that the Trivoli is an improvement, which is what I thought you were looking for after Henry's suggestion.

If the transport and/or the DAC in the Trivoli are weak, you can tweak all you want, but it'll only end up sounding warm and weak...

Jstas

I wasn't saying that anyone was "dissin'" anything. I was just trying to say that it isn't an ordinary Discman. That's all. Don't get jumpy.

I also was not saying that the Tivoli was better. I'm not necessarily looking for better. I just want the functionality. The Tivoli unit has the functionality and has the bonus of being compact and very unassuming. It looks nice, it's small and it is relativly cheap. For a CD player for work, that would work out just fine. However, I am not going to make that determination unless I get a chance to hear one though. I am wondering how it sounds and I'm also wondering how easy it is to use. It looks spartan on the face plate and the remote looks complicated. If all the functions are accessible from the remote only then I probably will rule it out based on that fact alone.

As far as tweaking goes, I'm not looking to shake the walls down. I want a full sound. The cheapy computer speakers and boomboxes everyone has at work are annoying to listen to because they are so hollow, tinny and unbalanced. An old pair of KLH's or Advents would work fine with small components and give me the richer sound I am looking for. Loud is not a goal so a weak signal can work out. But, again, I want to hear it first before I buy it, if I buy it. Mainly because it may not have enough oomph to do what I need it to do. But knowing Henry Kloss and his past, I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt until I hear or see otherwise. It is an option under consideration and it has the features and characteristics of what I am looking for in a desireable situation. I didn't say I was going to buy it. Just considering it.

If I have to, I'll take a PC power supply and an automotive head unit, shove it into a wooden or metal box and use that if I have to. It is an unreasonable option although it would have a tuner, cd player and pre-amp all in one unit. Still that is not what it is meant for and it would require some fancy wiring on my part and there is a good chance it would have less than desireable results.

RuSsMaN

I think that Tivoli is sweet. I've thought about baggin' the radio to use as a tuner in the whole house rig. (even though mono, the output jack is stereo)

Jstas, if you go that route, report back how it sounds. I'm wondering if they are on the used market at all. It has a left/right rca out that would work fine with any pre/integ/rec.

Just fyi, as far as good sound on the cheap, you might look for an older ADC 16/2 or early Maganavox cd-player. The ADC sports some decent dual-16-bit internal DACs, and the Mag's that have the 16 bit dacs are CLEARLY labled on the front. BSR had a 2020 model with a single 16bit dac also.

All the players mentioned above can be had for less than $30 used, but I would look locally - even packed well cd players get beat to hell in shipment.

Cheers,
Russ

Tour2ma

Jstas, no "jumpy" here... all is calm.

As far as nice, used CDP's, I'd add the Denon DCD-1500 to Russ' list. Another old 16 bit number that garnered "Digital Audio's" first perfect 10 rating. Came with a locking screw that anchored the transport in place making shipping a low concern.

Boasts both fixed and variable outputs (controlled via the remote only), so don't really need a pre-amp.

I am orginal owner of one and still love its sound. I have seen them on ebay for ~$50.

TroyD

This has GOT to be a record for a Jstas thread not being banished to the HOS. Starting to wobble a bit though....

BDT

Jstas

Was that really necessary?

RuSsMaN

J, Troy left the house without his helmet today - pay no mind.

Cheers,
Rooster

TroyD

...Speeding down the highway with the cruise control on. Front end starting to shimmy a little bit.....


BDT


Nah, probably wasn't neccessary but I thought it was funny.