New to the forum BUT an important question...

Sledgehammer462

Somewhat of an audiophile myself I've been a dedicated 2 channel guy for most of my 49 years. I am now in a position and very excited to be putting together my first 5.1 system...Just purchased a Samsung 50" class LED-LCD 3D HDTV / 240Hz...very nice!!!!! I have a very sexy, brand new-never used-in the box Denon AVR-4308CI (140w x 7)...I've decided to order direct here from polkaudio a pair of RTiA7's for my main L&R's, CSiA6 center and a DSW Pro 660wi to rattle the walls!! My question: I was considering a pair of FXiA6's for my surrounds but thought "why not just get another pair of RTiA7's"!!! To much BANG for my surrounds or what???? The room size is 18' x 13' with a 8' ceiling height...I realize the room "may" be to small for this configuration but I do plan on having this system in a bigger room in the near future....

So what do the forum experts think?? FXiA6's or RTiA7's for surrounds? I spoke to Fred here at polk today and told him I'd wait to hear from you guys before I order in the morning!!...Remember: I love it loud!!!! ; )

Thanks in advance for your opinions!!


Steve

My current 25 year old system:... Bryston 4BNRB, Bryston BP20, Theta Basic Transport, Theta Gen V processor all pushin' a pair of Mirage M1si's...all Audioquest interconnects & cable...

mystik610

A full range speaker being delegated to surround duty is a bit wasteful IMO, as not a whole lot of low frequency material is played through the surround channels. The woofer on the RTi-A7's won't see a whole lot of action playing surround material. I'd say the FXi-A6's are actually better surrounds than the A7's. The di-pole configuration does a great job diffusing the surround effects throughout the rears...it really makes the surround effects sound more robust.

I'd get the FXiA6's, and use the extra money you were going to spend on another pair of A7's, and get a pair of A9's up front instead!

codyc1ark

mystik610 wrote: »

I'd get the FXiA6's, and use the extra money you were going to spend on another pair of A7's, and get a pair of A9's up front instead!

If I had the cash, I'd go with the A9's as mystik said, if you don't have the room, get the FX's, I think either way you'll be happy with your setup. Stick around, we've got a good little community here.

cnh

Welcome to Club Polk!

Put me on the A9 list as well. My favorite tower of the RTI-A series. You want to spend money spend it there! Also don't forget to get the largest center CSI-A6!

And use the rest of your money to get a power amp for the fronts! The Denon is a very nice AVR (I run a smaller/older 2807 in a a smaller Rti-A3 surround system in my basement--the Denon 'loves' that Polk series), but A9s can use 'even' more juice!

cnh

Sledgehammer462

That's what I've been hearing about the A9's...very power hungry! The Denon 4308 will push these yes???

cnh

That Denon will power them but you won't be getting what they're capable of putting out without more power!

##The 4308 is really a newer version of a 380X series Denon because Denon has been scaling back their models so it's really only ONE model up from my 2807?##

I stand corrected after checking. The 4308 is a model up from the 3808! So two up from mine. But you 'still' could use a power amp!

cnh

BlueFox

I have 4 LSi15s in a 12x11 room, so your room is more than enough for all tower speakers. Moving from the LSi7 to the LSi15 for the surrounds was an obvious improvement in movie audio. I rarely turn on my sub, but with the 4 LSi15s I experienced an obvious increase in bass. Remember, now that movie producers understand that many people have HTs they are going to be adding more and more to the rears.

Another reason to have 4 decent speakers is that you can add an SACD player to your HT and take advantage of multi-channel SACDs.

F1nut

Unless you are going to listen to 2 channel music on this HT rig, which it doesn't appear that you will, you do not need towers up front as the sub will handle anything below 80Hz. Even if you do run towers up front, they will sound better set to small, especially the A9's as your AVR doesn't have the power to drive them properly.

You certainly do not need towers for the surrounds and actually the FXi A6's are a much better choice.

rebuy

If given the room and budget I would choose full range speakers all around.
In my last set up I ran 6 towers for theater and music. At the time I had SACD and all the other stuff, so having large speakers for music was what I needed.
The system would fill the space with solid walls of sound pretty easy. If your using SACD I believe the recordings are 5 full range channels.

Since then I have decided to downsize and choose the RTI series for small but nice. I like having small quality monitors and plan on mating with a sub or two.
I just want to get every note, in a good way.

It just depends on your own personal taste.

27dnast

I would have to agree with the above comment... Towers aren't necessary if you have a great sub/subs because if the crossover setting at 80hz. I guess you could theoretically run the x-over at 50 hz... But I'm not sure what you'd gain from that?

Definitely go with the fx's on the surrounds. Although, they barely qualify as true bi-pole/dipole speakers because they only have one woofer. But, I have the 4's and love them!

mdaudioguy

F1nut wrote: »

You certainly do not need towers for the surrounds and actually the FXi A6's are a much better choice.

Agreed. The FXis are designed specifically for the surround role, and IMO are essential to creating a truly immersive experience - particularly in a 5.1 configuration, where two speakers are charged with covering the sides and behind.

RTiA7s would be fantastic up front, but if I had to do it again, I'd build a system with bookshelves up front - something like a trio of RTiA3s... :cool:

SRTer

Steve, I personal find my RTi A tower system to be pleasing. I would recommend it. I have the RTi A9 fronts and RTi A7 rears with a DSWPro500.

The FXi surround speakers most likely will give a more immersive or spacious sound than a direct firing tower speaker. However, this does not bother me.

I do love the fact that I didn't have to find wall mount or stands because the towers dont need any of that.

Someone commented about the rear surrround towers not seeing much content. This is true in some movies but not most of the action BluRays I have picked up lately.

I currently run all the towers full range and like the results. I'm also switching back between tha 50Hz crossover and full range for comparison.

This system is mostly setup to play multi-channel music then HT. You will love it if you do a similar setup.

I recommend 4 RTi A7's for your reciever. Not RTi A9's.

Sledgehammer462

SRTer, you have the A9's up front...How is that Pioneer pushing them? Keep in mind, my Denon 4308 and the SC-35 are rated the same 140W X 7...Leaning towards the A9's right now for future options...

SRTer

Sledgehammer462 wrote: »

SRTer, you have the A9's up front...How is that Pioneer pushing them? Keep in mind, my Denon 4308 and the SC-35 are rated the same 140W X 7...Leaning towards the A9's right now for future options...

I do have RTi A9 fronts. I love the upgrade from RTi8's and a 100 watt Pioneer Elite VSX-23. The sound is full, detailed, and forward. It will exspose a recording that wasn't well made.

I tried to find a bench test for you Denon 4308. I could only find a Denon 4310 which is also rated 140 watt and tested 130ish in 5 channel mode which is on par with the Pio Elite SC models.

Therefore, I believe that your receiver will do fine with the RTi A9's as long as it makes similar power. I didn't know much about the specs of your receiver before offering the RTi A7 for front and rear.

Some people feel that RTi A9's and even A7's need external amp. Not so if your not trying to feel a large room with a high ceiling. They will be able to produce about 115dB with clarity and depth within 12 feet or so from the speaker to sitting position which in most cases will be to loud.

If you don't buy at the very least a 200 wpc amp of good quailty, your wasting money for nothing.

ROHfan

mystik610 wrote: »

A full range speaker being delegated to surround duty is a bit wasteful IMO, as not a whole lot of low frequency material is played through the surround channels.

I mean no disrespect at all, but I have to chime in and say that (I believe) this is a myth that has been propagating long past its point of relevance. I used to think the same thing when I had tiny little Sony cubes as rears way back in the day. However, I noticed that every time I upgraded to better rears the sound got fuller with more bottom end. Long gone are the days when rear channels were just "ambient" sound. They are now legitimate, full-range channels. This is quite evident when listening to the rear channel audio through my RCi85 in-walls.

polkfarmboy

When I had my rti 7.1 system up and running I found the fxi to be the best choice .I switched out the rti6 and even try'd rti8 in back but at the end of the day the fxi's always sounded better to my ears

Sledgehammer462

I like the full-range approach myself for surrounds...PLUS, it looks bad ****!!! How does this sound: R9's for the front (will get a "quality" amp to push those) and let the 4308 handle the R7's...

SRTer

Sledgehammer462 wrote: »

I like the full-range approach myself for surrounds...PLUS, it looks bad ****!!! How does this sound: R9's for the front (will get a "quality" amp to push those) and let the 4308 handle the R7's...

Hook them up first and listen. If you feel your missing something, then go shopping.

I'm sure things can only get better from there. Here is a link to my thread with the pictures of the setup.

The RTi A tower setup is truly a nice sight.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117648

mdaudioguy

ROHfan wrote: »

I mean no disrespect at all, but I have to chime in and say that (I believe) this is a myth that has been propagating long past its point of relevance. I used to think the same thing when I had tiny little Sony cubes as rears way back in the day. However, I noticed that every time I upgraded to better rears the sound got fuller with more bottom end. Long gone are the days when rear channels were just "ambient" sound. They are now legitimate, full-range channels. This is quite evident when listening to the rear channel audio through my RCi85 in-walls.

The RCi85s are really not any more full-range than the FXiA6s.

DSkip wrote: »

Have you ever heard dipole/bipole surrounds? They still sound great and draw no attention to themselves. You know you are surrounded by sound, but can't really locate it. It helps keep your attention on the screen in front and not on that speaker in the corner that makes you turn your head.

Agreed.

I'm a fan of high-mounted speakers for surrounds. Per polk:

Unlike the front three speakers, that must produce sharply focused images, the job of surround channels is to envelop the audience in diffused sound known as "ambience." To excel at this job, rear speakers should not call attention to themselves as sources of sound. For these reasons, surround speakers work best when elevated at least two feet above the seated listeners' heads (a height of six to seven feet above the ground is considered normal), and mounted on the side walls in line with or slightly behind the audience.

F1nut

SRTer wrote: »

Some people feel that RTi A9's and even A7's need external amp. Not so if your not trying to feel a large room with a high ceiling. They will be able to produce about 115dB with clarity and depth within 12 feet or so from the speaker to sitting position which in most cases will be to loud.

115dB is not possible from 140 wpc.

The RTi A9 is rated at 90dB @ one meter. For every 3db increase it takes double the power. Factor in the distance of 12 feet (3.63 meters) and the dB level drops even more. This also does not consider clipping.

1 watt = 90dB
2 watts = 93dB
4 watts = 96dB
8 watts = 99dB
16 watts = 102dB
32 watts = 105dB
64 watts = 108dB
128 watts = 111dB
256 watts = 114dB

Sledgehammer462

Do the 9's come with jumpers???

mdaudioguy

All Polk speakers with "bi-amp capability" include jumpers. This is probably true for any brand...

SRTer

F1nut wrote: »

115dB is not possible from 140 wpc.

The RTi A9 is rated at 90dB @ one meter. For every 3db increase it takes double the power. Factor in the distance of 12 feet (3.63 meters) and the dB level drops even more. This also does not consider clipping.

1 watt = 90dB
2 watts = 93dB
4 watts = 96dB
8 watts = 99dB
16 watts = 102dB
32 watts = 105dB
64 watts = 108dB
128 watts = 111dB
256 watts = 114dB

Adding one more speaker should add about 3dB extra, right or wrong? We are talking about a pair of RTi A9's.

SRTer

F1nut wrote: »

115dB is not possible from 140 wpc.

The RTi A9 is rated at 90dB @ one meter. For every 3db increase it takes double the power. Factor in the distance of 12 feet (3.63 meters) and the dB level drops even more. This also does not consider clipping.

1 watt = 90dB
2 watts = 93dB
4 watts = 96dB
8 watts = 99dB
16 watts = 102dB
32 watts = 105dB
64 watts = 108dB
128 watts = 111dB
256 watts = 114dB

Correct. I sure plenty people only listen to 75dB-85dB when it's all said and done. I can't see one needing to have much more in a typical 3500sqft home.

One really should be fine with 140 watts. I'm truly satisfied.

F1nut

SRTer wrote: »

Adding one more speaker should add about 3dB extra, right or wrong? We are talking about a pair of RTi A9's.

No, it doesn't work like that.

One really should be fine with 140 watts.

For HT powered by ICE, yeah it's plenty. My post was purely for educational purposes.

SRTer

F1nut wrote: »

No, it doesn't work like that.



For HT powered by ICE, yeah it's plenty. My post was purely for educational purposes.

I learn more everyday. Send me a link for study on this topic.

Sherardp

Sounds like a great setup OP. Since you like it loud check out the Epik Empire sub over the Polk. The Epik sub should have more output than the Polk since it has dual 15s in a single cabinet.

GTB

Go with the 9s...the Denon should be just fine. Get it all set up and enjoy, then you can start tweaking if needed.

Did you buy that Denon new? The "08" on the end indicates it is from 2008. If so, you may some glitchy HDMI switching. Google "batpig" for more info on Denons.

Greg