Preamp opinions....

HRDROKN
HRDROKN Posts: 39
edited July 2011 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm in the market for a new pre... (replacing my Carver CT28v) I've been looking for a Sunfire TGP III or IV, but in my search I have came across some other interesting pieces.

So I'm looking at this Dared MC-7P tube pre and was wondering if anyone had some input?

I have the KLF 30's (Crites x-overs, mids and tweats) powered with a modified TFM-35x that will soon be replaced with a pair of Silver 7t's.

Thanks
HRDROKN
Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
Post edited by HRDROKN on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • stuwee
    stuwee Posts: 1,508
    edited July 2011
    HRDROKN wrote: »
    I'm in the market for a new pre... (replacing my Carver CT28v) I've been looking for a Sunfire TGP III or IV, but in my search I have came across some other interesting pieces.

    So I'm looking at this Dared MC-7P tube pre and was wondering if anyone had some input?

    I have the KLF 30's (Crites x-overs, mids and tweats) powered with a modified TFM-35x that will soon be replaced with a pair of Silver 7t's.

    Thanks

    Good mornin', the Dared has gotten great reviews, it's tubed so expect a slightly different soundstage and tone from the SS Carver and the Sunfire's, some would say "For the Better" :smile:. The amp you're using it with would be helpful to know as well. Can you demo anything in your current system? That is always the best route.
    Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited July 2011
    If it were my money, I would go Dared with the Silver 7t's. That sounds to me like quite the match.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2011
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    If it were my money, I would go Dared with the Silver 7t's. That sounds to me like quite the match.

    That would be most excellent indeed

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited July 2011
    I use the Forte F44 preamp with my Klipsch Fortes, and it's a great unit with remote control. I would suggest a tube pre as mentioned before, or a preamp with simplicity like mine with is JFET based. In my experience, simplicity is the solution for horn speakers.
    Jake
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2011
    Highly recommend tubes...

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2011
    Tubed pre + good ss power amp--hard to beat if the synery is there,and I suspect that it would be.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    Thanks for the input guys!!!
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    Alright... made the purchase!

    Can't wait to roll some tubes.... :biggrin:
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2011
    You should have fun, but the unit uses 7 tubes so I hope you have a stash $$$ set aside. Decent 12AX7's can easily run $100-125/pr and you'll need (2) pairs. It should be easy to find a nice single 12AT7 around $50-75 as well as a single 6V6GT. The rectifier is a 5Z3P.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You should have fun, but the unit uses 7 tubes so I hope you have a stash $$$ set aside. Decent 12AX7's can easily run $100-125/pr and you'll need (2) pairs. It should be easy to find a nice single 12AT7 around $50-75 as well as a single 6V6GT. The rectifier is a 5Z3P.

    H9

    So I was reading some of the other threads on tubes.... and you seem to have done quite a bit of rolling! Would you have a recommendation on which tubes I should start out with?
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • stuwee
    stuwee Posts: 1,508
    edited July 2011
    Yea!! I'm very happy for you, you're gonna love it :smile:, miles of smiles ahead!
    Thorens TD125MKII, SME3009,Shure V15/ Teac V-8000S, Denon DN-790R cass, Teac 3340 RtR decks, Onix CD2...Sumo Electra Plus pre>SAE A1001 amp>Martin Logan Summit's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2011
    HRDROKN wrote: »
    So I was reading some of the other threads on tubes.... and you seem to have done quite a bit of rolling! Would you have a recommendation on which tubes I should start out with?

    Ha....ha....I sure would but I hope you have some coin left over :eek::tongue:

    I'll try to choose some more economical tubes that still sound great.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Ha....ha....I sure would but I hope you have some coin left over :eek::tongue:

    I'll try to choose some more economical tubes that still sound great.

    Cool...!

    :wink:
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2011
    Enjoy the pre....get used to it witht he stock tubes. Rolling tubes is a hobby subset unto itself. Take one step at a time....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2011
    I agree Troy, but I will say the tubes shipped with that pre-amp are pretty bad compared to what is available, but taking one step at a time is a good thing to practice.

    To the OP, tubes take patience and some pre-planning is always involved as I've found it take about an hour for tubes to sound their best so if you are going to get ready for a listening session I'd start warming up the tubes 30-45 minutes before you do any critical listening, even if the listening is casual too.

    Also be aware that the cheapo Chinese tubes shipped with a lot of gear has a faily high failure rate so don't be alarmed if a tube goes south. Once you are up and running, try to have some spare tubes on hand. This is almost a non-issue with NOS tubes, but if you are buying used tubes, it's a good idea to have back-ups as well.

    Here are some off the cuff suggestions for tubes.

    I am not huge fan of current production stock, some guys swear by Psvane brand made in China, they are kind of expensive, I haven't heard them so I can't comment, but I have heard similar praise for some of the last NOS batches of ECG Phillips tubes that came out in the 80's. I have a few pairs of said Phillips tubes that everyone said sounded really good and they are not that great. Better that your standard Shungang, but not that great.

    If you want to get started with a nicer than the stock Chinese tubes in the 12AX7 position (you will need a quad) the current production Russian Sovtex 12AX7LPS is a decent tube and not too expensive.

    My current favorites are 1950's RCA 12AX7 black plate square getters, very nice tube with a creamy midrange, sparkly highs and nice bass. I'd say warm side of neutral.

    My other current favorite in a pair of 1956 Valvo Hamburg 45* slanted getter ECC83. This tube is sublime, perfect balance of all frequencies, neutral, solid bass and a great soundstage. They also make a long plate version that costs even more. These are rare tubes and the price reflects that. Avg cost for a used pair is $120+ on average.

    Many prefer a 5751 tube as it's lower gain and the Raytheon and Sylvania 3 mica black plates are supposed to be incredible tubes, but very pricey. I haven't heard these tubes because the amp that uses them is for a secondary office rig and I'm not spending that kind of coin for that rig. If it was for the main rig, I'd probably pop for a pair.

    Telefunken ECC83 is a very popular tube. Similar to the Valvo Hamburg but not quite as nice. Ei in Yugoslavia makes a copy of the Telefunken since in the 80's they bought Telefunken's tube equipment. I have a pair of early Ei's and they are a nice tube, but they are starting to jump in price, but they are about 1/2 the cost of the "true" Telefunken's. Many feel they sound similar, but the Ei's won;t last as long as a Telefunken.

    In the 12AT7 position I have experience with just about every variant made. There is a plethora of choices, almost too many to mention. I'll revist later.

    The best 6V6GT is by far the 50's and 60's RCA gray glass, black plate. I have been hoarding those as I find good deals on them. I have an amp that uses 4 of them. A single should be easy to find for less than $40.

    I have to do some research on the 5Z3P rectifier. In my experience the rectifier is as important or more important than the signal tubes, so don't over look that position. I'll get back to you on that as well.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited July 2011
    Absolutely agree, the stock Chinese tubes are shiite....I'd start out with some basic Sovteks or what not and then go from there.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2011
    If you want to start with baby steps and upgrade the stock Chinses tubes.

    (4) Sovetk 12AX7LPS (be sure to get the LPS, those are low noise)

    (1) Siemens 12AT7/ECC81 these are nice sounding tubes for not a lot of money. see purple box in this link
    http://www.vacuumtubes.com/12at7.html

    (1) RCA 6V6GT gray glass black plate (lots used on Ebay or get a used one from the above link)

    (1) 5Z3P which is the same as a 5U4G. Mullard, RCA, GE, Sylvania, etc all make one
    link is an example
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-GE-5U4-G-Stereo-Tube-1955-/180680444528?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a1164ca70

    Hope this helps

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    I much appreciate the advise guys!

    This is going to be a lot of fun!
    :biggrin:
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    With the new pre coming this week and a bunch of tubes coming also... in an attempt to note the effects of changes, is there any particular order for which tubes to change out first?

    :confused:
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • engtaz
    engtaz Posts: 7,663
    edited July 2011
    Which pre are you getting.
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited July 2011
    engtaz wrote: »
    Which pre are you getting.
    HRDROKN wrote: »

    So I'm looking at this Dared MC-7P tube pre and was wondering if anyone had some input?

    He ended up buying one.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    HRDROKN wrote: »

    So I'm looking at this Dared MC-7P tube pre and was wondering if anyone had some input
    engtaz wrote: »
    Which pre are you getting.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    He ended up buying one.

    Hey engtaz.... good to see a familiar user id.!

    :biggrin:
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HRDROKN
    HRDROKN Posts: 39
    edited July 2011
    Well, I had a chance to get her hooked up this afternoon and listen to a few songs before having to go into work. I'm happy to say that even with the stock tubes... she sounds at least as good as my SS pre. Tomorrow ill get her up to temp and have a good listen!
    :biggrin:
    HRDROKN
    Klipsch KLF-30's, biamped, Carver M1.0t MKII .002 on the LF, Carver TFM-35x .002 on the HF, Marchand XM44, BBE2002R, Carver SDA-360. Carver Silver 7t's in the works....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter