Irony takes a deadly turn.

bobman1235

rooftop59 wrote: »

First of all, it is funny how every political or religious thread on here degenerates into centralization versus decentralization instead of focusing on the particular issue at hand. Personally, I guess I have to wonder how wearing a helmet is different that a seat belt? Or different than laws against drinking and driving? 30 years ago there were areas in Texas where you could have open containers in the car as long as there was one less than the number of passengers. 4 people, 3 open containers. Now it is assumed by most reasonable people that drinking and driving is wrong because it infringes on the rights and freedoms of others. It also infringes on my fun. I would like to be able to go to a party every once in a while without worrying about driving home, but that's the price we pay for balancing personal freedom with minimizing the pain and suffering that my freedom causes to another person, who has the same rights as me. This is one of Mill's basic arguments in On liberty, a text that has greatly informed this country's libertarian impulses. Seat-belts are similar. I am told that I have to wear one. Because it can potentially cause pain and heartache to others if I don't. My freedom and rights has to be balanced with the freedom and rights of others. I don't think that any reasonable person is staging a rally against seatbelt laws. So what's different about a helmet laws? We have to balance personal rights and freedoms with the rights and freedoms of others. The only reasonable position is somewhere in the middle...

And yes, sadly this was a deeply ironic event. See the MW dictionary: Irony - incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity

There was incredible incongruity between the desired and actual result of this particular event. And it is incredibly tragic, something the Greek playwrights would indulge in...

If most people in Texas read that screed they'd kick you right out.

Society should make laws to protect INNOCENT people's SAFETY. Not to protect their feelings. And not to protect people from decisions they knowingly make.

Drunk driving laws are important, because drunk drivers are likely to HURT or INJURE someone else on the road. We don't have those laws because EMTs might see their wreckage, or because a drunk driver's families might be sad. The fact that you even draw the comparison between the two shows you have no idea what you're even talking about, you're just blindly supporting something because it has no affect on you.

Every single action you take affects other people. Every one. If you ****, or don't shower, or don't wear deodorant, I have to smell it, and it coudl really piss me off. If you have a **** ringtone, it'll annoy everyone around you. If you are 55 years old and have frosted tips and an earing like Guy Fieri, you make everyone around you say "what a ****!"

On a more serious note, in this country you can, if you have the money or means, go to a racetrack and drive a racecar; skydive; bungee jump; jump in the ocean in January in Maine; go hunting; drive a go-kart; drive an ATV; smoke cigarettes; drink to excess; be 1000 pounds; and any number of other activities that are very likely to maim or kill you. HOw many of them would you liek to outlaw because they might make someone a little sad?

inspiredsports

Personally, I'd like government to shrink to pre WWII levels, but I know the First Lady wants to legislate away foods that can lead to the 1,000 pound benchmark.

rooftop59

inspiredsports wrote: »

Personally, I'd like government to shrink to pre WWII levels, but I know the First Lady wants to legislate away foods that can lead to the 1,000 pound benchmark.

That'll work as long as we also shrink back to pre WWII population levels and well as technology and cultural levels.

sucks2beme

I see crazies out there riding their bikes with t-shirts, shorts, and flip flops, no
helmet. Given DFW driving and large number of road hazards, it's just a matter
of time until a guy like that hits the concrete. Whatever.
Not my problem, or any one else's. I am, however, going to laugh my **** off
at the moron. Bike riding in high traffic areas is dangerous, and if you're going
out like that, good luck. Even a small whoops dressed like that will result in
an injury. Flip flops? Putting a foot down at a stop light could go very wrong.

tonyb

bobman1235 wrote: »

On a more serious note, in this country you can, if you have the money or means, go to a racetrack and drive a racecar; skydive; bungee jump; jump in the ocean in January in Maine; go hunting; drive a go-kart; drive an ATV; smoke cigarettes; drink to excess; be 1000 pounds; and any number of other activities that are very likely to maim or kill you. HOw many of them would you liek to outlaw because they might make someone a little sad?

Funny, sad, at the same time,but yet you will see never ending regulations that may put a stop to the activities you mentioned. Between law suits and the Nanny state, one by one you may see your favorite activity go bye-bye.

I always like to bring up public schools as a shining example of what the combo of lawyers and legislators can do. Take what they have done to the public school system and move it into your fav activity, the end result will not be to your liking. What can't be legislated out of existence, will get taxed to oblivion, ala cigarettes.

Getting off track here as I so often do, Wearing a helmet imho makes for good common sense, but as we all know common sense is not handed out in spades in this country. If your stupid enough to not wear a helmet, then your consequences are your own. Just don't need/want someone else to tell me what is acceptable common sense and what isn't.

JustinHEMI

sucks2beme wrote: »

I see crazies out there riding their bikes with t-shirts, shorts, and flip flops, no
helmet. Given DFW driving and large number of road hazards, it's just a matter
of time until a guy like that hits the concrete. Whatever.
Not my problem, or any one else's. I am, however, going to laugh my **** off
at the moron. Bike riding in high traffic areas is dangerous, and if you're going
out like that, good luck. Even a small whoops dressed like that will result in
an injury. Flip flops? Putting a foot down at a stop light could go very wrong.

I've seen this on the parkway near Pittsburgh. Guys on crotch rockets exceeding 100mph (don't ask how I know ) with nothing but shorts and flip flops. No shirts, no helmet, no gloves. Amazing! Buy hey, their lives.

Justin

20hz

sucks2beme wrote: »

I see crazies out there riding their bikes with t-shirts, shorts, and flip flops, no
helmet. Given DFW driving and large number of road hazards, it's just a matter
of time until a guy like that hits the concrete. Whatever.
Not my problem, or any one else's. I am, however, going to laugh my **** off
at the moron. Bike riding in high traffic areas is dangerous, and if you're going
out like that, good luck. Even a small whoops dressed like that will result in
an injury. Flip flops? Putting a foot down at a stop light could go very wrong.

I have been riding for 25 years and still cant beleive some of the folks out there , shorts , tank top even a girl on the back .
I talked to a ER nurse he said since the helmet laws there are a lot less "donors " out there I thought he was 1/2way kiding he was not .
I remember seeing guys ride with their helmet strapped on the seat .
I rode for 10 years on the dirt before I bought a streetbike this helped me a lot in keeping on the bike, once the rear tire swing out another time was bad road conditions , I think more training need to be done before street motercyle licenses are given out .

tonyb

You could have all the training in the world, it wouldn't matter. As soon as you get your license, you'll do what you want. Look at cars and the way people drive.

The only reason I think motorcycles has escaped the ire of those making laws is that they get good gas milage. However, because your not capable of handling your own safety, I'll bet electric motorcycles will come to market, top speed of 65, no power to get you in trouble, kids won't be doing wheelies on the expressway at 80 mph. More like a glorified electric moped. We shall see. It would be an easy sell to lawmakers, look at the stats for bike accidents, horsepower, age of the riders who kill themselves, the evil Bike manufacturers who market crotch rockets to teenagers. The story line is all there.

bobman1235

tonyb wrote: »

I'll bet electric motorcycles will come to market, top speed of 65, no power to get you in trouble

Having ridden a bike for 10 years now, the only thing power has done for me is get me OUT of trouble.

steveinaz

Motorcycle popularity upswing in the last 15 years has helped keep the nanny's off our back too, that's revenue baby. Especially the surge in female riders.

exalted512

In Europe, they have tiered licensing for motorcycles. I don't know the specifics, but you're limited in HP for the first couple years. I think it's a great idea.

I love having 113HP at wheel on a 380lb bike
-Cody

Joe08867

Tony, sometimes power is the only way out of trouble. So limiting a bike to 65 on roads that routinely surpass the 85mph mark would be even more dangerous. The last thing a bike wants to be is the slowest thing on the road.

By the way, they make slower modes of two wheelers. They call them scooters and mopeds. I know there are some pretty fast scooters, but in general they are not as quick as a regular bike.

Training and having tiered licenses is probably the best route for the future but like I said, when your only 1% of the populous you can be overlooked quite easily.

20hz

Joe08867 wrote: »

Tony, sometimes power is the only way out of trouble.

You are right power helps a bunch, for example some guy merges towards your lane and you gas it to safety .
It is much safer to gas it than slow down and risk being sideswiped or rear ended by another car .

20hz

tonyb wrote: »

I'll bet electric motorcycles will come to market, top speed of 65, no power to get you in trouble, kids won't be doing wheelies on the expressway at 80 mph. More like a glorified electric moped. We shall see. It would be an easy sell to lawmakers, look at the stats for bike accidents, horsepower, age of the riders who kill themselves, the evil Bike manufacturers who market crotch rockets to teenagers. The story line is all there.

There is a lot of promise for electric motercylcles (all wont be like mopeds)
One was run with bunch of laptop batteries it did 0-50mph in like 2 seconds .
I dont think that kind of power should be available to new riders but the 0 emisisions and not needing gas thats great , and I would not mind having to charge it every few days .

inspiredsports

tonyb wrote: »

I'll bet electric motorcycles will come to market, top speed of 65, no power to get you in trouble, kids won't be doing wheelies on the expressway at 80 mph. More like a glorified electric moped. We shall see. It would be an easy sell to lawmakers, look at the stats for bike accidents, horsepower, age of the riders who kill themselves, the evil Bike manufacturers who market crotch rockets to teenagers. The story line is all there.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. The electric bikes currently being developed are faster than their gas powered counterparts and they instantaneously develop 100% of their available tourque making them even harder to control.

steveinaz

Sounds the makings of an awesome burn-out to me.

tonyb

inspiredsports wrote: »

Nothing could be farther from the truth. The electric bikes currently being developed are faster than their gas powered counterparts and they instantaneously develop 100% of their available tourque making them even harder to control.

You missed my point guys. If the powers at be wanted to limit a bike's HP, the case can be made. Not saying they will anytime soon.
Plus they won't like an electric bike with alot of get up and go.

I do like the tiered license idea, something the big dogs should look into.

I know what you guys are saying on power getting you out of trouble, and thats true, but in the hands of a young stud, who's a tad light upstairs, power can be dangerous.