Planning on building speaker stands, need some advice

Jstas

Well, maybe not so much advice as a few things to bounce off people who might have more insight than I do.

Here's the deal. I have a set of Totem Rainmakers for my recently finished library. It's the vinyl rig as well and I'll be getting the NAD phono pre-amp with the USB output so I can rip the vast collection of Sinatra I picked up from George to the music server. That's beside the point though. The amplification is a Peachtree Nova if anyone is wondering. An Oppo CD player I won at Polkfest is going to be the optical source and a Pioneer tuna. Simple yet elegant.

Anyway, speaker stands! The Rainmakers need stands. I haven't seen anything I like that isn't going to cost a fortune. So, I decided to build my own.

I'm going with a steampunk kind of idea. I have this mahogany plywood that will be an excellent candidate for the top and bottom platforms. It's 7/8ths stuff so it's pretty beefy. I can get mahogany edge banding to match it too so that's not a problem.

For the uprights though, I'm thinking of using black steel piping. I can get flanges that will allow me to screw the piping in to the flange and mount the flange to the wood header and footer. If I seal the insides of the flanges to the boards with caulking I can then load the tubes with sand or shot or both.

The pipes will be plenty rigid and only about 36" at the most. I'll make another 4-6" in height from the platforms and feet.

So what I'm wondering is for each stand, what do you think will be best? A single, 3" pipe or 2, 3 or 4 smaller, 1" pipes? The platforms are going to have to be rectangular because the Rainmakers are narrow but deep. I want these rock solid stable too 'cause of the cats. I don't think I'm going to screw the cabinets to the stands but some velcro might keep them from being knocked off if the cats get too rowdy.

So what do you think?

BTW, whether I use black pipe or galvanized or whatever, I'll likely varnish the metal to keep it from getting too corroded or anything.

nooshinjohn

Any thoughts of suspending them from the ceiling? I have thought about suspending a shelf, held by cables from the ceiling for holding speakers for some time. Just not sure if such a thing would work very well.

***edit***

answered my own question. Though cool looking, the idea sucks, so scratch that one.

dorokusai

The pipe idea sounds ok but the aesthetics are awful. I would get them powder coated or hammer finished in black. As far as the wood goes, the world is your oyster. The baseplate should be larger than the top plate either way. Why not just use the plastic caps that you can usually find with stock tubing to seal the ends?

I also don't believe the top plates have to be rectangular to an extreme, just slightly.

Even if they are keepers, I wouldn't secure them to the stands with screws unless you bought stock stands with that option. You will kill resale no matter how awesome you think the stands are, or they are constructed.

Shot only, sand is for cats not humans.

dkg999

Do you have anyone in your network with a machine shop and a welder? Bottom plate out of 1/4" steel, a couple of pipe uprights out of 2" or 3" steel pipe, and a top plate of 1/8" steel plate. Butt weld the steel pipes and drill and tap holes through the top plate to fill with shot and screw in plugs. Get some steel points from Parts Express for feet. Grind the welds presentable and clean and either powder coat or paint.

It's a little work and steel has gotten more expensive. You could probably just cut the plates out of the side of your truck. Those Fords have the thicker better body steel!

dorokusai

I think that Ford steel would add further embarrassment to the stands Doug....but then again, he's the owner.

Jstas

Powder coating, planishing, hammering, welding and painting sheet steel...yeah, it all looks pretty but it's not the look I'm going for. I want the rough hewn look of bare iron pipe. coupled with the finished look of the mahogany.

I want a look like this:



But without the lead and zinc pipes.

If I could get raw steel pipes easily (harder than it seems) then I'd just blue the pipes and flanges.

But all this polished steel, powder coating and so on is alot of work that I can't do myself because I lack the tools. It's also expensive and defeats the purpose of making something myself to save a buck and end up with something spiffy.

I can get 1" x 36" pipe for about $12 each. If I go with three 1" pipes in a triangular pattern, I can fit them in the foot print of the Rainmakers. They will be quite heavy themselves. I already have the wood and edge banding for them would be about $30. Add another $40 for the flanges I need and a $4 tube of silicone sealant and I'm at about $150 for a nice set of stands.

They are going in the room in the uploaded picture.

cnh

Did you do the bookshelf work in that room John? If so...really nice work. I've always admired good craftsmanship since I'm all about pre-assembled furniture at best!

cnh

Face

These are cheap enough to customize to your liking: http://www.racksandstands.com/VTI-RF-VI1049.html

Jstas

Face wrote: »

These are cheap enough to customize to your liking: http://www.racksandstands.com/VTI-RF-VI1049.html

No. Nothing but crap. I have the skills to build it myself. I'm not getting coated sheet steel junk just to cut it up and end up with less than desirable results.

mdaudioguy

Jstas wrote: »

I can get 1" x 36" pipe for about $12 each. If I go with three 1" pipes in a triangular pattern, I can fit them in the foot print of the Rainmakers. They will be quite heavy themselves. I already have the wood and edge banding for them would be about $30. Add another $40 for the flanges I need and a $4 tube of silicone sealant and I'm at about $150 for a nice set of stands.

I'd go with this approach. It will likely be more stable with 3 smaller pipes, rather than 1 large pipe. I also think it will look more interesting. Even though they're heavy already, I'd still fill the pipes - just because. I love the sound of the Rainmakers, btw.

dorokusai

If you really like the speakers then why are you trying to be so cheap with the stands? Just because? And don't start with the money issue since that's BS. You have the skills to do most of the work, what's the big deal with getting the finish done by someone else? The 3 by 1 uprights sound like a good idea and very sturdy.

Jstas

cnh wrote: »

Did you do the bookshelf work in that room John? If so...really nice work. I've always admired good craftsmanship since I'm all about pre-assembled furniture at best!

cnh

My dad and I did the work. Took about 2.5 months to finish 3 of the 4 walls with floor to ceiling bookcases.

They are plywood with edge banding. Gaps between the units are covered with trim. The footers are built in to the cabinets. The crown molding is removable. There are 2x6's behind the crown molding, cut on a bias to match up with the angle of the crown molding. The crown molding is nailed to the 2x6. They are anchored to the top by screws through the underside of the top of the bookcase. Take the screws out and the crown molding slides out. The bookcases are anchored to the walls by 3" screws in to studs. They rest on felt lined feet on the floor.

One of the bookcases has a hidden pocket door built in to the back to cover the closet.

Has a "built in" look but I can set them up in any room with an 8' ceiling. So if I ever move, they come with me. Gonna piss off the new home buyer at that time but hey, I planned it this way. They want to keep them, $20K on to the price and I'll split it with my dad.

Took many weekends and nights staying up, assembling, sanding, staining and shellacking to finish them. They look great and I have a place for my couple hundred books, 600+ CD's and 300 DVD's and VHS tapes. Plus, it's my home office so I have a big desk in the room as well.

Jstas

dorokusai wrote: »

If you really like the speakers then why are you trying to be so cheap with the stands? Just because? And don't start with the money issue since that's BS. You have the skills to do most of the work, what's the big deal with getting the finish done by someone else? The 3 by 1 uprights sound like a good idea and very sturdy.

It's my preference. I know what I want it to look like and I am more than capable of making what I want look good. I'm not going to find the look I want from any store. I've looked. The parts are not cheap at all either. The steel alone is about $150. If I had bought the sheet of mahogany plywood, that's about $400. But I got the plywood for free when cleaning out a garage for a lady my dad knows. I have one sheet and there's not much I can do with it. I want to use it and this is a good thing to use it for. I can do these stands pretty cheaply and I'll end up with a better product than anything I can find in the $200-$250 price range that the parts and finishing materials are going to end up costing me.

Sorry, I'm just from the mentality that higher prices don't always mean better. I also find speaker stands to be absurdly simple things and I can't stomach paying several hundred of dollars for a set that I can build myself for 1/4 the price. I guess I'm just cheap.

Jstas

mdaudioguy wrote: »

I'd go with this approach. It will likely be more stable with 3 smaller pipes, rather than 1 large pipe. I also think it will look more interesting. Even though they're heavy already, I'd still fill the pipes - just because. I love the sound of the Rainmakers, btw.

Thank you for answering the question I asked!

I'm thinking that 3 smaller pipes would be the better option too. After running out to Home Depot to see what they have on the shelf, a 3 or 4 inch pipe is big but I don't think I can weight a base plate down well enough to counteract the high center of gravity of a 4"x36" pipe. The 1" pipes are much lighter with less material and I can work with them easier. Even if there's 3 of them per stand. I think that's going to be the way to go.

Oldfatdogs

Why not go all wood on your stands? From the pictures you have posted in the past Dad has skills and from your rack you posted you do too.If you use a large enough base they would be pretty stable.I'm making a set for for my monitor 40s out of maple that was given to me. the base will be 15by15 like the old monitor stands and about 26 inches high.I'm just thinking you have beautiful mahogany do the uprights out of that too.Just my 2 cents. Dan

Jstas

I don't have enough mahogany.

Polkersince85

Look around and find about four satellite dish mounts. The adjustable flanges open up some neat ideas for stands. Many of them have fairly hefty steel tubes to boot.

I keep my eyes open at the Habitat store for a pair of vintage cast iron pedestal sink bases.

strider

What's the diameter of the flanges for the small pipe size? That'd be my only concern about the triple pipe design. For example, if they were three inches in diameter you'd not be able to get the pipes closer than 3" centerline to centerline, 2" between any two pipes. That distance wouldn't bother me per se, just something to keep in mind when figuring the dimensions of the plates, esp. the top plate, which I agree should be smaller then the bottom. If it bothers you to see speaker cables you could keep one pipe hollow and run the cables through it and out the bottom.

If you went the single pipe route you could weight the bottom plate to help lower the CG.

Either design would work for me, personally I like the juxtaposition between the roughness of the pipe and the fine grain structure of mahogany.

Joe08867

I would go with the three pipe idea. But I would angle them slightly out from top to bottom. Kind of like a tripod but with one large pipe and two small.

Something like this but flared.

EndersShadow

You could also probably use PVC rather than pipes. They wont be as heavy (unless you fill with sand or lead shot) but they should do the job and you can cut them to height a little easier.

steveinaz

I think he's going for an industrial/elegant look w/the mahogany, rugged pipe effect---sounds cool to me. John, I'd go 3 pipes myself; not only is it sturdier, it would be (IMO) more esthetically pleasing and it gives you more volume for lead shot loading.

Given the 'Totem Rainmaker" theme, a patina copper finish might also be bad **** in keeping with the heritage.

Cool idea.

Jstas

Joe08867 wrote: »

I would go with the three pipe idea. But I would angle them slightly out from top to bottom. Kind of like a tripod but with one large pipe and two small.

Something like this but flared.

Dude, flaring them would be way more of a pain in the tukis than it's worth.

I think I'm going to stick with 3 similar sized pipes too. I have to use floor flares to anchor them properly and having different sizes adds complexity unnecessarily and can also shift things around to where the stand is not an optimal size for the space it will be in.

Jstas

EndersShadow wrote: »

You could also probably use PVC rather than pipes. They wont be as heavy (unless you fill with sand or lead shot) but they should do the job and you can cut them to height a little easier.

PVC has a very "unfinished" look. It's not textured and stains easily. Plus, you stuck with a painted finish and a very cheap feel. It also flexes ALOT and I'm trying to avoid that.

The iron pipe has an unfinished look but it's not a chintzy look like the PVC has. Also, it doesn't have to be painted. You can clear coat it and leave. You can paint it if you like or even blue it or brown it. There are tons of options for the steel pipe. Very limited in what you can do with PVC. Yeah, it's cheaper but it doesn't have the same look and feel. That and schedule 40 is quite strong and sturdy as well as adding a good deal of mass to the stands by themselves. Fill it with shot and they aren't moving anywhere. As impressive as the output of the Rainmakers can be, I know of no bookshelf sized speaker with the oomph to shake a stand that will weigh as much as what I'm planning.

Jstas

steveinaz wrote: »

I think he's going for an industrial/elegant look w/the mahogany, rugged pipe effect---sounds cool to me. John, I'd go 3 pipes myself; not only is it sturdier, it would be (IMO) more esthetically pleasing and it gives you more volume for lead shot loading.

Given the 'Totem Rainmaker" theme, a patina copper finish might also be bad **** in keeping with the heritage.

Cool idea.

Yeah, Steampunk.

The Steampunk Laptop

Steampunk is a sub-genre of science fiction, alternate history, and speculative fiction that came into prominence during the 1980s and early 1990s.[1] Specifically, steampunk involves an era or world where steam power is still widely used?usually the 19th century and often Victorian era Britain?that incorporates prominent elements of either science fiction or fantasy. Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them; in other words, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne.

http://steampunkworkshop.com/
http://www.steampunk.com/
http://www.steampunkmagazine.com/

"20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" or "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" kinda stuff.

I was thinking copper pipes too but getting threaded copper is difficult because it's really soft. All the connections would have to be fluxed and soldered and I'd still have no way of getting the plates attached to the uprights. It's also very expensive.

However, a friend brought up the idea of getting the black pipe copper plated. That's intriguing and I might go that route because it's the same look as copper but much cheaper. I'll have to get them assembled to see how it'll look.

Face

Jstas wrote: »

PVC has a very "unfinished" look. It's not textured and stains easily. Plus, you stuck with a painted finish and a very cheap feel. It also flexes ALOT and I'm trying to avoid that.

Use textured paint and fill them with sand.

unc2701

If you're still open to ideas, look for the PVC they use for gas mains. It's 1/2 thick and SOLID. They were installing some near me and had scraps that they were tossing. Not entirely easy to cut, but I'd take that over metal.

unc2701

Jstas wrote: »

Has a "built in" look but I can set them up in any room with an 8' ceiling. So if I ever move, they come with me. Gonna piss off the new home buyer at that time but hey, I planned it this way. They want to keep them, $20K on to the price and I'll split it with my dad.

Heh. I foresee a very bad day in your future when you move into your new house with 8' ceilings... that are 7'11". Looks great, though.

steveinaz

Jstas wrote: »

Yeah, Steampunk.

The Steampunk Laptop

Ahh, got'cha--almost a "nautical" look. Are you planning some brass trim on the mahogany bases?

Jstas

Face wrote: »

Use textured paint and fill them with sand.

No. It'd require a bunch of work and the choices in colors you have is limited when you have to start looking at paints that will bond to vinyl. Unless I use a primer but even then there are limitations.

unc2701 wrote: »

If you're still open to ideas, look for the PVC they use for gas mains. It's 1/2 thick and SOLID. They were installing some near me and had scraps that they were tossing. Not entirely easy to cut, but I'd take that over metal.

It's still going to look cheap and it's not the look I'm going for. Besides, it's not about what you'd take. It's about what I'd take. Materials have already been decided. I didn't ask for advice on what to make them out of, just on what would be a better construction. Besides, if I put all that effort in to building those bookcases in that room, what, on God's green Earth, would make you think that I would cheap out on the stands and use PVC? The nice thing about thee metal is that the material is structurally overkill, substantial to the touch and eye and has desirable properties for a piece of audio furniture.

unc2701 wrote: »

Heh. I foresee a very bad day in your future when you move into your new house with 8' ceilings... that are 7'11". Looks great, though.

Heh. Maybe you missed the part where I said I BUILT THEM. If I have to adjust height one way or another, I can do so. Especially since the bookshelves themselves are only 7'4" tall. It doesn't concern me in the least. Then again, you're worrying about something that hasn't even been considered yet. So thanks for your concern but I'm sure I'll be just fine.

Jstas

steveinaz wrote: »

Ahh, got'cha--almost a "nautical" look. Are you planning some brass trim on the mahogany bases?

Actually, yeah. I was going to get brass feet for the stands and maybe brass corner caps for the bottom plates to keep they from getting messed up.

Something like this for the feet:



http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-718

Maybe some thick brass spaces to add some height too.

Corner caps like these:



There's tons of hardware out there and my dad has stacks of catalogs to look through as well. But I'm not going to know what I want to do with them until they are assembled.

unc2701

Jstas wrote: »

Besides, if I put all that effort in to building those bookcases in that room, what, on God's green Earth, would make you think that I would cheap out on the stands and use PVC? The nice thing about thee metal is that the material is structurally overkill, substantial to the touch and eye and has desirable properties for a piece of audio furniture.

As Face pointed out, you can make it look like what ever you want. And did you miss the part where I said the walls are 1/2 thick? I'm not talking about hardware store PVC. This probably weighs 2-3 times as much per foot as the steel you have in mind. I nearly broke a toe when a chunk rolled off my work bench. It feels completely solid and doesn't ring like metal. Damn near doesn't resonate at all.

Jstas wrote: »

Heh. Maybe you missed the part where I said I BUILT THEM. If I have to adjust height one way or another, I can do so. Especially since the bookshelves themselves are only 7'4" tall. It doesn't concern me in the least. Then again, you're worrying about something that hasn't even been considered yet. So thanks for your concern but I'm sure I'll be just fine.

So... do you think I'm really worried? Or maybe that was a joke? Kind of a Murphy's law thing? What if you buy a new house and every room is 7'3"? Dear god, man. THE SHELVES MIGHT CONVEY!