Thoughts on National Guard

mrbigbluelight

PerfectCreature wrote:

Even if I just enlist for the 8 years they require

Things may have changed over the years, but the law used to be that you couldn't enlist for a term greater than 4 years.
The military got around that by requiring that you enlist for 4 years, and agree to re-sign for 2 more years.
Same result, but ......

What exact program have the recruiters been mentioning that requires an 8-year enlistment ?

In any event, best of luck with your decision.

aviator

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Things may have changed over the years, but the law used to be that you couldn't enlist for a term greater than 4 years.
The military got around that by requiring that you enlist for 4 years, and agree to re-sign for 2 more years.
Same result, but ......

What exact program have the recruiters been mentioning that requires an 8-year enlistment ?

In any event, best of luck with your decision.

Don't know about today, but in the early 90s, the obligation for graduating Navy pilots was 12 years. Guess the AF and Marine pilots had similiar obligations.

PerfectCreature

Well, after talking to recruiters for awhile, I have a rough idea of what it would be like.
I have opted to wait until after graduation to revisit the subject.
I have had several discussions with my wife, and she will support me in whatever decision I make.

I have narrowed it down to either Military Police, or Air Force[not sure which portion or what I would even do....I did not find much related to my field on interest](Maybe someone can help me a bit?)

Sherardp

Being an Airforce officer would be more of a "cake walk". You would be serving your country, leading personnel, and living a "better" life depending on your job. Good officers lead from the front, but in this case you would be in the office and not getting as dirty. If I were to choose, I would go Airforce Active Duty. Travel, see the world with the family and experience new things. Can't beat it.

gudnoyez

I spent 8 years regular army from 1980-1988 I enjoyed the times you get to meet a lot of people some good times and some not so good times, I enjoyed the experience. I can only assume that your intrest in law enforcement means that the MOS you choose will be military police, I suggest you take Doros advice ask some ex military people. I think they will be a little more straight forward than your recruiter. I enjoyed serving.

TroyD

Good thread and a LOT of good points....I'm an active duty AF MSgt, I've got quite a bit of experice with the Guard and Reserves but am from from an expert.

I'll throw out a couple of things: Recruiters are salesmen. Period. End of story. When it comes down to it, he/she is looking to make a quota. Do NOT NOT NOT ever join with an open contract. If your recruiter can't give you a contract on a specific MOS, it ain't open and it's highly unlikely that will change by the time you ship.

Doro makes a great point, do NOT join just to get out of student loan debt. Bad idea.

Taking your wife anywhere you go. False. Now, I'm not sure how the Guard/Reserve work but I'm pretty sure you enlist and your home of record is where it is. They won't 'move' you anywhere. Getting to drill location is your problem. Active Duty is a different story. Now, some guys DO take thier wives for drill weekends and even annual tours, but they do so on thier own dime.

As for your aspirations of Law Enforcement...I'd SERIOUSLY rethink the Air Force. Because you are afraid of heights is silly, not everyone in the AF flies....think about it.

Now, to brass tacks. There is a war on. If Uncle Sam is offering huge bonuses for you to sign on, it's because that particular skill is in demand. Take a WILD guess where. If you do just one enlistment, pretty much plan on a trip to Afghanistan for a year. I'm not saying that to scare you but it's a fact.

Now, you say that you are in Maine. I know that there are Air Nat'l Guard Units at Bangor, Portland and Pease ANGB...pretty sure all KC-135 refueling units...and these are all Wings so they should have the full range of AFSC's (Air Force Specialty Codes...MOS in Army parlance). Army, I know there is Army Guard but not completely smart on what they have, I do know there is a rotary wing unit in Bangor but again, don't know about specifics.

Now, if your primary goal is education...and there is NOTHING wrong with that, btw.....historically, the Guard is the way to go because along with the Federal money, the state, CAN offer some significant incentives as well. Again, if there is a financial incentive...there is a pound of flesh to be exacted in exchange.

I'd also consider Active Duty....4 years on active duty is not a bad gig, either.

As for my preference of Guard or Reserve....it depends on the unit. It's been my experience that Guard units are more cohesive and generally better trained simply because they tend to be more stable. They are also not funded as well as the Reserves (state budgets are notoriously tight) so tend to be more resourceful and independent. Re: those **** will steal anything that isn't nailed down.

Okay, I'm getting tired of typing....if you have any specific questions, I'm more than happy to give you my .02....

BDT

TroyD

I also thought of something else...if Law Enforcement is your thing, consider the Air Force. The Reserves do have slots of OSI (AF Office of Special Investigations). Now, you just don't get into it, it's an application process (highly competitive) that you can apply for after a certain amount of time. AFOSI, and I think Naval Investigative Service (NIS) go through the Federal Law Enforcement Training programs and are actual Federal Agents where as the Army CID are not. I actually just found this out, one of my former troops is now an OSI agent and was telling me this last weekend....

BDT

Sherardp

Gratitude for your dedication and services TroyD. All great points in your post. You can definitely count on going to Afghan OP, may even run into me out there if they ever decide to request my presence again.

dragon1952

If you go active duty I'd recommend the USAF. Much less bull#### , less exta duties and most like a 9-5 job. National Guard??? If you have a full workload (school or job or both) that 1 weekend a month can still be brutal. Also the potential for being pretty boring too. We did a lot of standing/waiting around and useless stuff.

PerfectCreature

Okay, so I am on the last stretch to finalizing my 4 years degree in criminal justice. I am setup with ride alongs with a local PD and have aboiut 170 hours left, at say...10-20 hours per week.
I am still considering military and have been back and forth (on my own thoughts) on which branch. The Air Force and the Guard are the ones that have held my attention.
I have sent a contact sheet for the Guard, and the Air Force. My aim is to become an MP or in the case of the AF, a SF officer.
My wife is still against either for the sole purpose of "potentially" moving away and the time possibly spent away from each other.
Figured I would check in. I have not decided 100% either way, be it one branch or the other, or simply live out the civilian life, and not do military.
It is quite the decision.

Systems

criminal justice

Friend of mine has the same degree, and wanted to be a State Trooper, but landed a job as a National Park law enforcement officer.
I'm not 100% sure of his title, but he is local National Forest law enforcement, and absolutely loves it.

cnh

PerfectCreature wrote: »

Okay, so I am on the last stretch to finalizing my 4 years degree in criminal justice. I am setup with ride alongs with a local PD and have aboiut 170 hours left, at say...10-20 hours per week.
I am still considering military and have been back and forth (on my own thoughts) on which branch. The Air Force and the Guard are the ones that have held my attention.
I have sent a contact sheet for the Guard, and the Air Force. My aim is to become an MP or in the case of the AF, a SF officer.
My wife is still against either for the sole purpose of "potentially" moving away and the time possibly spent away from each other.
Figured I would check in. I have not decided 100% either way, be it one branch or the other, or simply live out the civilian life, and not do military.
It is quite the decision.

You're "married"? Really? What are you, 22 or so? You married young!

Great advice from the boys above. I have nothing to offer there as I'm an older dude who never considered the military, I'm an egghead (scholar type), after all. But for those who do consider this as a career or service it does often help build character, discipline and provides some useful skills (I have some friends who went this route).

It is, however, a very important and serious decision NOT to be entered into lightly, or only for economic purposes. And you should be able to "hack" being under extreme forms of "authority" (something most academics, like myself, have trouble with). Nothing wrong with this, it's just the nature of the command structure.

And as mentioned. You will probably be "deployed" overseas at some point because of the shortage we are experiencing in personnel quotas. You have to accept that and come to terms with it if you decide to go this route!

As a professor, my advice is finish college first or, if possible, consider the Officer (ROTC) route!

Talk to the boys (above) and your family and good luck!

cnh

PerfectCreature

Well, I contacted the Air Force, and just missed his officer hours. Told him I was interested in special operations, instead of security opertions, so I hope that doesn't make a bad impression.
In any case, it is not to get rid of debt, it would be to build a solid career foundation, as most police officer have some sort of military background.
The national guard recruiter just called real quick. He's going to give me a call around 6:30, to discuss things.

cfrizz

PerfectCreature wrote: »

Okay, so I am on the last stretch to finalizing my 4 years degree in criminal justice. I am setup with ride alongs with a local PD and have aboiut 170 hours left, at say...10-20 hours per week.
I am still considering military and have been back and forth (on my own thoughts) on which branch. The Air Force and the Guard are the ones that have held my attention.
I have sent a contact sheet for the Guard, and the Air Force. My aim is to become an MP or in the case of the AF, a SF officer.
My wife is still against either for the sole purpose of "potentially" moving away and the time possibly spent away from each other.Figured I would check in. I have not decided 100% either way, be it one branch or the other, or simply live out the civilian life, and not do military.
It is quite the decision.

If you were single, I'd say go for it. But you aren't, and you shouldn't just ignore what she is feeling/wanting especially since she has made it clear. There is no "possibly" about it, you will end up spending lots of time away from home, possibly in dangerous situations. If you do this, it will most likely cost you your marriage Whatever branch you go into the bottom line is they don't give a crap what YOU want and what YOUR expectations are, you will be expected to meet THEIR expectations which won't coincide with yours and you will have no way to get out of it.

I'm always suspicious of guys who made the prior commitment to a marriage and now all of a sudden decide to get patriotic and run off to the military. Why? you should have done it way before now.

PerfectCreature

She is against me being deployed. What wife wouldn't be? I mean, it would be odd if they were all for you being deployed. She is not necessarily against me serving. We have had discussions since the beginning of this post and since she has become okay with my career choice, should it be available and open. I am hoping for MP or SF.
It is not that I just up and wanted to become patriotic, it has been a topic of our relationship since the beginning.
Why havn;t I done it already? College. I wanted to be able to become an officer in the military branch I chose.

cfrizz

Yes you are hoping, but there certainly is no guarantee that you will get what you want. Once you sign on the dotted line you are theirs to do what they want with. Regardless if you are in the branch you choose to be in.

You will have a college degree with lots of options for law enforcement in the civilian world. Why are you so hell bent on getting into it via the military. Is this the ONLY way you can get into LE? I seriously doubt it, I'm sure plenty of people go to the police academies without having been in the service.

WastelandWand'r

PC,
In my line of work, I have worked side by side with members of all the regular branches of the military, and a multitude of other state and federal agencies. Active duty members are an absolute blessing to work with. Members of other agencies with a military background/experience are almost to a fault exceptional individuals with character where it counts.
Were they like that going in? Most of them probably not. Many, obviously, saw it as an opportunity to better themselves on many different levels and excelled. That choice lies with you, and you alone.
The military is not for everyone, and the level of commitment is high obviously, but with an open approach one will get a lot of it.
That applies not to just employment opportunities afterwards but in how you approach a multitude of things.
Serious thought needs to go into it since you aren't just a swinging single dude without family responsibilities. Everyone in the family needs to be on board and behind it.
Give it some serious thought before signing on the dotted line .
Best of luck,
Nathan

PerfectCreature

Alright. After some long talks, and drawn out plans, I decided on pursuing the National Guard.
I've chosen 91B as my MOS, as I feel it is a valuable skill to have. I go to MEPS next week.

nooshinjohn

cfrizz wrote: »

I'm always suspicious of guys who made the prior commitment to a marriage and now all of a sudden decide to get patriotic and run off to the military. Why? you should have done it way before now.

He likely was patriotic his entire life. It also sounds like he is NOT running off, but rather feels an obligation of sorts to serve our Country.

I applaud your desire to serve and salute you for it, butter bars or not. That said, and given the current crop of out of touch and out of their minds leadership, there is no way in hell I would choose to serve at this time. They are slashing budgets, moth-balling HALF of our Naval and Air power, and not even spending the money needed to maintain our armored divisions on the ground. This is being done while forcing the military to take on even more obligations. Keep in mind that , Constitutionally, Defense is really the ONLY obligation the Fed has!

Look at the fiasco in Benghazi, and the run-up to sticking our noses into the middle of a civil war in Syria. Nothing quite like giving a potential adversary a 6 month notice that you plan to strike.... The latter-day flower children and hippies with their fingers on the trigger, those that profess to care so much for our troops are, in fact, the same people that spit upon them when they came home from Viet-Nam. They have zero concept of what it means to use military force, nor the understanding of the fallout caused by their actions.

Please guys, do not take my comments as being a political statement, rather these are the facts as I see them after having served and having a keen understanding of history.

We will need strong, patriotic and capable leaders to pick up the mess the flower children will leave behind, P/C, so save your need to serve for that....

BlueFox

nooshinjohn wrote: »

He likely was patriotic his entire life. It also sounds like he is NOT running off, but rather feels an obligation of sorts to serve our Country.

I applaud your desire to serve and salute you for it, butter bars or not. That said, and given the current crop of out of touch and out of their minds leadership, there is no way in hell I would choose to serve at this time. They are slashing budgets, moth-balling HALF of our Naval and Air power, and not even spending the money needed to maintain our armored divisions on the ground. This is being done while forcing the military to take on even more obligations. Keep in mind that , Constitutionally, Defense is really the ONLY obligation the Fed has!

Look at the fiasco in Benghazi, and the run-up to sticking our noses into the middle of a civil war in Syria. Nothing quite like giving a potential adversary a 6 month notice that you plan to strike.... The latter-day flower children and hippies with their fingers on the trigger, those that profess to care so much for our troops are, in fact, the same people that spit upon them when they came home from Viet-Nam. They have zero concept of what it means to use military force, nor the understanding of the fallout caused by their actions.

Please guys, do not take my comments as being a political statement, rather these are the facts as I see them after having served and having a keen understanding of history.

We will need strong, patriotic and capable leaders to pick up the mess the flower children will leave behind, P/C, so save your need to serve for that....

Quite a fantasy world you live in. :rolleyes:

nooshinjohn

BlueFox wrote: »

Quite a fantasy world you live in. :rolleyes:

There may be some slight exaggeration in my post because I was to lazy for Google tonight, but the essence of my statement is true, and there are facts out there to back it up. I wish the times in which w live were a fantasy, because then we could fix the mess by merely opening our eyes.

tonyb

cfrizz wrote: »

Yes you are hoping, but there certainly is no guarantee that you will get what you want. Once you sign on the dotted line you are theirs to do what they want with. Regardless if you are in the branch you choose to be in.

You will have a college degree with lots of options for law enforcement in the civilian world. Why are you so hell bent on getting into it via the military. Is this the ONLY way you can get into LE? I seriously doubt it, I'm sure plenty of people go to the police academies without having been in the service.

True to some extent Cathy, but vets usually get priority in Law Enforcement. With out military training you are left at the mercy of forced race quota's, affirmative action policies, which he probably would be put on the bottom of that list.

mdaudioguy

tonyb wrote: »

True to some extent Cathy, but vets usually get priority in Law Enforcement. With out military training you are left at the mercy of forced race quota's, affirmative action policies, which he probably would be put on the bottom of that list.

Evidently, he's chosen not to pursue LE. 91B is Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic. The saga continues...

PerfectCreature

Military Police did not carry any incentives which I wanted.
I chose vehicle mechanic as it is a valuable life skill. I will be trained for law enforcement when the time comes.
If you research it, LE and MP are different and experience in one doesn't make you trained for the other.
Any MOS gets you the veterans preference whether you were special forces or the cook.
It's not the job title you held, but the ability to show commitment and ability to be trained effectively.
To restate this again, wanting to serve wasn't a spur of the moment thing. I planned on it to pay for college and enter with a 4 year degree for advanced rank.
Everyone needs their cars worked on, especially police agencies. Police cars take a beating.
I put a lot of thought into picking that MOS.

tonyb

PerfectCreature wrote: »

Military Police did not carry any incentives which I wanted.
I chose vehicle mechanic as it is a valuable life skill. I will be trained for law enforcement when the time comes.
If you research it, LE and MP are different and experience in one doesn't make you trained for the other.
Any MOS gets you the veterans preference whether you were special forces or the cook.
It's not the job title you held, but the ability to show commitment and ability to be trained effectively.
To restate this again, wanting to serve wasn't a spur of the moment thing. I planned on it to pay for college and enter with a 4 year degree for advanced rank.
Everyone needs their cars worked on, especially police agencies. Police cars take a beating.
I put a lot of thought into picking that MOS.

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. Your all over the map dude. You don't go into Law enforcement to be a mechanic and you certainly don't need military training to become a mechanic either, nor do you even need a college education. If being a mechanic is your end game, then maybe trade school would have been better than college or the military.

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused. Your all over the map dude. You don't go into Law enforcement to be a mechanic and you certainly don't need military training to become a mechanic either, nor do you even need a college education. If being a mechanic is your end game, then maybe trade school would have been better than college or the military.

And you sure as hell don't need to an officer to turn a wrench either. A B.S. in basket weaving is good enough for flight school. Why not helicopters or fixed wing instead?

cnh

Well it looks like we actually agree about this!

I think some of "you" should take the time to "read between the lines" in PCs posts. Tony was getting at that in his last post above. This is not someone who is motivated by one thing, or clear, or completely "coherent". It's a young man pondering, second guessing himself and thinking about what he might do or get out of something. And he is all over the map. He might not even realize that! As many of you don't either. But I see and teach people his age everyday (I've been doing it for over two decades)--and I think I might know a little something about 20 somethings.

So I'm going to try this one last time. FINISH YOUR COLLEGE DEGREE first and FOREMOST! And test the waters with the Maine State Police, see what they say, and what you might have to do. If you can get a track for service as a state trooper and that's something you want to do. SIDELINE the military stuff for now! And go ahead with that. You don't also need to FIX cars to be a Trooper! Is that what you really want? Because I'm just NOT getting the military thing. It really seems a sideline for you in terms of what you've DONE and what you WANT TO DO!

And with Cathy, talk with your wife and realize that serving in the military these days means you might end up "anywhere" or "everywhere" we have a conflict or perceived response to terrorism, etc. It's a nutty world out there, and frankly, some of OUR responses can also be pretty nutty at times. Do you want to be at the "mercy" of political whims? The sentiment of the "moment"?

cnh

tonyb

Agreed CNH, seems like he's undecided on what direction to take, which then I can understand his wife's frustration. Lets keep in mind a recruiter for the military has a job to do, they are salesmen in essence. Do you take what a salesman tells you as gospel ?

Nobody goes into the military from scratch and gets an officer designation, your going to do what everyone else does at first and in that time frame should you be needed elsewhere, overseas, your going....like it or not. Now, given the current military problems, why on earth would you want to risk your life for political whims as CNH suggests ? To be a mechanic in the end ? Dude, doesn't make sense. Listen to your wife, re-think this decision......and for God's sake, don't swallow everything a recruiter tells you.

I know I sound hard on recruiters, they have a tough job to do, but......nobody is attacking our country, and your life need not be put in jeopardy because of politics. Job training can be had right here at home for various occupations.....without getting shot at. Well, I guess that depends on where you live too.:biggrin:

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

Nobody goes into the military from scratch and gets an officer designation, your going to do what everyone else does at first and in that time frame should you be needed elsewhere, overseas, your going....like it or not. Now, given the current military problems, why on earth would you want to risk your life for political whims as CNH suggests ? To be a mechanic in the end ? Dude, doesn't make sense. Listen to your wife, re-think this decision......and for God's sake, don't swallow everything a recruiter tells you.

A Bachelor's degree in basket weaving is enough to punch a ticket for OCS in any branch of service, but that said, OCS is no cakewalk, and depending upon the branch of service, the drop rate can be as high as 35%.

As wishy-washy as PC appears to be, he would be washed out before he got his first buzz-cut.

tonyb

Oh, be nice John. The dude is just confused on his path is all. We all were there at his age, no ? At least we could say we all had some sort of misguided idea's.

I can use myself as an example. At the age of 25 I was looking for a change. Was married, 2 small kids at home, so wanted to get into movies. Went to school to be trained as a stuntman, even made it into a movie or 2, but the time needed to bang on doors for work didn't coincide with a steady paycheck. Which a young married guy needs. Stupid idea huh ?

That's how we learn, from life experiences. If the OP wants to join the military, have at it, just be well informed of what your getting into and the added stress that places on a marriage.