Sunfire Sig vs ?

erniejade

I am looking for a different amp. I have a sunfire sig II 625x2 and a sunfire 300X2. Sonically I cant hear much different between them. I had a Integra m5060, McIntosh 2105, adcom 555 ( original) carver tfm 35, in the last 2 years. So far either of the sunfire amps have come out on top. The surprise was the integra. To my ears outside of the sunfire, the integra sounded better but, I am looking for a change.

I do like the sound out of the sunfire but, i seem to change a lot in my quest so I can still keep one and sell one and get something different. I am going to cap this on the used market at $2000. 2 ch. only. Since I do change out equipment often, what its hooked up to right now is a McIntosh C-39 ( replaced a carver c-19) Jolida cd100, JM labs 815 ( flavor of the day) But I do also have sda 2.3's and might thinking of selling the vandersteen sigs.

So, I was thinking of trying either a Bryston, Krell, a newer line of the McIntosh amps ( like a mc 300, and someone was telling me I should also check out the Belles 350A Reference.

I am open to suggestions. I know with the price range I have or will have, there is a wide range of amps to try so, I am doing a little research first.

I will probably make the decision in the next month or 2.

Thanks!!!

erniejade

I should also add someone told me Marsh A400 was another one to check out. I was told for the $ its a sleeper and a great sounding unit. Sooo many choices.

nooshinjohn

have you thought about going tubes? You can get a nice set or Rogue Audio m150's in that price range.

zingo

Here are a few options for you:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1313961709&/Bryston-3B-SST-Warranty-19-w/h

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1312666967&/Audio-Research-D300-upgraded-p

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1313455721&/Forte/Threshold-Class-A-Modded

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1314023046&/Parasound-A21-Halo-

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1312763538&/Wyred-4-Sound-ST-1000-570wpc-a

Outfitter03

That is a very nice list Zingo. Have you listened to most of those? I know that synergy is very important but I would be interested in your ranking of 1-5 on those selections.

tonyb

If I was you, Id move away from the standard Sunfire/carver sound. Look for something more musical. Maybe a used Bat, McCormic dna 500, Cary, Older Classe, Moscode, or even go down the tube route.
Another idea is to keep what you have, if you like the sound, and maybe upgrade a source or might be time to try out some new speaks.
I use a hybrid, Butler 2250, musical as all hell, probably keep it forever too.

aviator

Might be of interest to you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PARASOUND-HCA3500-POWER-AMPLIFIER-EXCELLENT-ORIGINALBOX-/280701237750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415b18f9f6

newrival

Hey, B, give me a call! I've got a Classe amp you might like to just try out. It may not be what you're looking for but I know you like to experiment. Plus then I can swing by with that sub for you too.

zingo

Outfitter03 wrote: »

That is a very nice list Zingo. Have you listened to most of those? I know that synergy is very important but I would be interested in your ranking of 1-5 on those selections.

I have not personally heard that Bryston, but they have very low noise and very low distortion with a solid sound.

The Audio Research is a classic as far as SS amps. All their equipment is musical and never a poor choice.

The Forte is a personal favorite as it is class A and I love the Forte sound. It has great life and musicality, and just the right amount of warmth.

I have not heard the Parasound either, but their Halo series has never received a poor review from my research and some audiophiles I trust use Parasound Halo.

The Wyred4Sound amp is a B&O ICEpower amp, which in my opinion means its a good fit for lower sensitivity and lower impedance speakers. My father-in-law runs one on his LSi15s, and it sound fantastic.

erniejade

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

newrival thanks for the offer! I will take you up on that. I would love to hear the Taylo's on the classe running class A

Zingo, if they sound good on his class A, I will check that forte out. It looks fantastic and the mods on it.. nice!!

This will be interesting. Classe vs sunfire 300X2.

heiney9

Not looking to start a big debate but the Forte Model 6 is not a pure class A amp as the ad suggests. Jon Soderberg is THE MAN when it comes to modding/refreshing Forte amps so I have no doubt it's a nice amp. But 100wpc pure class A, no way. Also be aware that many of the later Forte amps were not designed by Nelson Pass as they were produced after he left Threshold. Some of the later models use IGBT's and they (IGBT's) are unobtanium and really not that great.

The Classe should be a nice audition, but unless you know the model number I doubt it's pure class A either.

Getting your ears on gear is more important than trying to choose something based on a broad set of criteria.

Have fun and keep us posted.

H9

heiney9

The Forte Model Six is a high-power, highperformance power amplifier that is well suited for large audio systems where sonic realism is measured not only in terms of liquidity and soundstaging, but in volume. Operating in high-bias Class A/AB mode, the Model Six provides much of the sonic advantage of a Class A design at lower volume levels, along with the ability to drive difficult loads at more realistic volumes.
The Model Six offers a subjective performance that is much larger than its physical size. Rated at a conservative 200 watts per channel into 8 Ohms, it can drive large, reactive or low impedance loads with authority. Bass slam and dynamics are truly exceptional, while tonal liquidity and resolution rival that of costly high-power class A designs.
The Model Six uses the latest Threshold design nuances to achieve its high level of performance. Featuring a laser trimmed dual JFET input stage, DC coupling from input to output, and true overall feedback free design, the Model Six is truly an "up to the minute" amplifier. The power supply uses a massive toroidal transformer and the output stage is a sonically superior, high-current IGBT design. And XLR balanced inputs are standard.
All of this adds up to an amplifier that really shines in a large, high-performance audio system. For systems that have to drive demanding, low-impedance loudspeakers to high volume levels, the Model Six is truly a must-audition amplifier.

model six specifications
Frequency Response DC-100 kHz
Distortion Less than 0.1 % (20 Hz-20 kHz)
Power Output (8 Ohms) 200 Watts/channel class A/AB
Power Output (4 Ohms) 350 Watts/channel
Technical Highlights
Overall feedback-free IGBT design
High current output stage
Balanced inputs
500 VA toriodal transformer
Dimensions 17.5" w x 6.5" h x 9.5"d

Personally, since this the later IGBT design, I'd steer clear. Later Forte's don't have quite the same sound signature as the earlier models and IGBT's are out of production so if one goes you have to buy a parts amp. Insulated Gate Bi-polar Transistors really shouldn't be used in audio applications, that's why they never caught on.

heiney9

From the internet:

I sent an email to Jon Soderberg of Vintage Amp regarding the heat output and the switch from Class A to AB operation. Thought I'd post his responses in case someone else ever needs this information.

1) The Model 6 switches from Class A to AB at 10 watts output.

2) "It normally runs hot. This is normal operation parameters for the unit."

My opinion:

The Forte Model 1 or 4A is one to get, Nelson Pass designed, conventional output transistors, sweet class A design.

erniejade

Thank you !!!! That would have been a mistake to grab it then!

"The Classe should be a nice audition, but unless you know the model number I doubt it's pure class A either."

Correct! I think he said it was a to 20 or 25 watts then A/B.

It is nice to have people who love to try out different things as much as I do and to be able to hear it on your own system like this. I agree the best way is with our own ears. Sometimes without units to try out, we have to rely on someones opinion all too often. Putting the 300x2 against the classe head to head will be the best way to hammer it out.

pitdogg2

so did you sell the C19.....I have the C16 little brother and always wanted the C19...

erniejade

Yep I sold it on the carver boards. It went quick!!! Great preamp when matched up with the right tubes

george daniel

Musical-- try a Belles 350 Reference--you can pick em' up used for a very good price

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1314057561&/Belles-350A-Reference-solid-st

erniejade

That looks like an amazing amp... I have read a lot on the Belles and I am shocked I forgot about it!. The power issue if it doesn't have the soft turn on concerns me. My Sunfire sig II if I turn it off and on will dim the lights badly.

zingo

heiney9 wrote: »

From the internet:

I sent an email to Jon Soderberg of Vintage Amp regarding the heat output and the switch from Class A to AB operation. Thought I'd post his responses in case someone else ever needs this information.

1) The Model 6 switches from Class A to AB at 10 watts output.

2) "It normally runs hot. This is normal operation parameters for the unit."

That was the original 200wpc A/B Forte 6 amp. The new 100wpc, as you are correct, is probably not a true class a, but rather a high bias class AB where the transistors are always on. It's still probably a good sounding amp for the money and design.

heiney9

Still IGBT's are problematic and unobtanium so I'd steer clear regardless of whichever Model 6 it is.

Here's some reading, pay close attention to post #3, one man's opinion.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/908-has-somebody-used-igbt-power-amp.html

zingo

Good read and I thought this comment summed up IGBTs well: But, of course, the point is well taken: Using IGBTs requires a lot of extra matching to get good sound, so why go through all the trouble of building a good amp with IGBT's when you can use prefectly fine bipolar or FET devices to build a good amp without all that fuss. You don't gain anything by using IGBT's except some sort of "exoticity" - which maybe was seen by some marketing guys in the 1980's as a plus.

NP does have a long history of using mostly MOSFETs and JFETs extremely successfully, and I can see no reason to stray from that success; unless you want to try an SIT amp. :biggrin:

TroyD

I dunno, I think that any move you make at that price range is going to be sort of sideways as far as solid state. I mean, I get the wanting 'different' but at that price point...I dunno...options, yes, significantly better? Crapshoot.

BDT

zingo

I have to disagree Troy. If you pick a price point for an amplifier (say $3K), I agree that you will most likely get a quality product if you go with a quality company. However, I feel the design of the amp does make a big difference on the sound quality and signature.