looking to you guys for reasurence

leftwinger57

Hello once again, I think yesterday I asked for sites for cooling/exaust fans for my Yamaha avr RX-V665. Most of you guys were happy to reply w/ sites that directed me to get the Cool guys fan which is 110v but steps down to low voltage and has a roller switch for off on.
Now for jollies I called Yamaha and they told me a fan was not the way to go. Personally after all the stuff I have learned here I'm sticking w/ you guys.
He did say if you place it at the audio/video card it will certainly cool things down.
Question is,Can this be a major oversite by them not to include a fan. I 've got to tell you guys I have clipped this thing at a volume that would not hurt an infant
(well maybe) but not to loud for the tunes that I play.
Another point that just makes me nuts is their version of a volume scale.
It starts at an inaudible -75 up all the way to a +18 which I have never even come anywhere close to. They tried to explain it's their decible scale which matches no other in audio history. Please explain this to me. Most all of my rig is back together and simple /stupid questions should be far and few in between.Thanks to you guys.One other minor point I find that the answers are much more informative and interesting than over at the Klipsch forum site.

cfrizz

Good lord! You are obsessing, turn down the volume, until you can get a separate amp, do not go over 0 on the volume knob & it probably shouldn't even go that high. Otherwise you know the risks you are taking to your speakers & receiver.

All companies have their own way of doing things to make themselves different. Some have the volume go from 0-75 & other go from - to + on the volume scale. So long as you don't over stress the volume or your speakers you will be fine.

Almadacr

cfrizz wrote: »

get a separate amp

+ 1 , well said .

tonyb

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Question is,Can this be a major oversite by them not to include a fan..

UH...No. More so the question should be was it an oversite for you to stick all your gear in an enclosed cabinet without consideration of heat issues ? Manufacturers can't comply with every installation issue as they vary greatly. It is up to the consumer to plan out the install,and adress any problems they may have as applies to that particular environment.

The volume scale should never go into the plus side,or above the 12 o'clock position if you value your hearing,and your gear. BTW- how do you know your clipping that avr ? If your doing it as often as you say, your on borrowed time. Best to keep the volume down to avoid any future clipping, unless of coarse you'd like to buy new gear.

aviator

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Question is,Can this be a major oversite by them not to include a fan....

FWIW, my Yamaha AVR RX-V2600 has a fan that's menu selectable for "auto" or "cont", got mine set on continuous. I also have a fair sized fan behind the rack keeping the AVR and 2 MX-1000Us cool. Right - wrong, I don't know, but thats what I'm doing.

The only time I get to a -12 on the volume is with a really weak soundtrack, usually set between -30 and -20.

BlueFox

If it clips then the system is either under-powered, or over-powered for the speakers being used. The only time I ever had an AVR clip was my first setup. It used those tiny Polk HT speakers, and would clip at loud levels. Once I started swapping out the 'toy' HT speakers with real speakers everything was fine.

Electronic gear needs to be in an open rack. While some like to hide their gear in cabinets, that is not a smart move. Besides, nothing looks better in a room than a rack of electronics with big speakers.

pitdogg2

fan should be set up to PULL air out of the amp/receiver NOT blow air in

kevhed72

Buy an amp....everyone is doing it

decal

As I've said before, you sure do seem to have a lot of problems with your stuff. Did you ever think it might be user malfunction? Just wondering aloud.

mdaudioguy

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Another point that just makes me nuts is their version of a volume scale.
It starts at an inaudible -75 up all the way to a +18 which I have never even come anywhere close to. They tried to explain it's their decible scale which matches no other in audio history. Please explain this to me.

I'll try.
When you calibrate your AVR, you're level-matching all channels to a particular volume, known as "reference." Of course, there is no hard and fast rule as to what "reference" should be, but generally, manufacturers use something in the range of 75 to 85 dB. Actually, for most of our purposes, it doesn't really matter much, as long as the AVR can adjust the sound from each speaker, so that all are relatively equal, at least as measured from some optimal location - the "sweet spot," where everybody wants to sit...

I believe Dolby recommends/suggests a reference calibration to 85 dB, which some people might use when manually calibrating their gear (for some people in this hobby, if Dolby says it, then it must be fact).
The scale on your AVR is simply an approximation of the decibels above or below this reference volume level.

If you assume that your reference volume is set at 75 dB, then it would make sense that -75 equates to no sound at all. Because the decibel scale is logarithmic, you notice very little difference between, say, -55 and -45, but you'll definitely notice the difference between -20 and -10. Your AVR has a Max Volume setting somewhere in its setup menu. I suggest setting it at a point where you're likely to never want it louder, so that you don't accidentally turn it up too high.

mdaudioguy

decal wrote: »

Just wondering aloud.

Or, you could take a few minutes to try and help someone. :rolleyes:

jimmydep

I'm using a Yamaha RX-v665 with separate amps. I do use the receiver to power zone 2 which runs my outdoor Atrium 65's. I never felt that the receiver got hot, alittle warm maybe but definitely not hot.
I'm with everyone else, if you can swing it get a separate amp, it made a world of difference for my LSI system. I think the Yamaha does an admirable job as a processor.

As far as the volume scale, I've gotten used to it. Most of my listening is done at -35 to -20, only when I'm really pushing hard do I reach -5 or 0db at this level it is most definitely LOUD.

Hope you solve your issues

Jimmy

xj4094dg

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Or, you could take a few minutes to try and help someone. :rolleyes:

A novel idea. This poor guy has no idea yet that his user name isn't making any friends on this forum.

leftwinger57

Please guys you have to believe me when i tell you i do not care if my name is is in print. The fan situation was a good one and should come soon and I will let you know how it turns out.
Now, for the interesting post/report/complaint.As some of you know I had a hell of a time trying to free my self from Monster THX I-Cs and it was a total failure. Well, while these were laying around doing nothing I decided to call
Monster Cable and to see what they thought of this problem that has been all over the I-NET.I spoke to a David H. and he was fully aware of the limitations of the grip on some of the I-C models.What he told me was to mail the affending cables back to Monster and he will replace those w/ a better contusive pair that would fit my gear. He fully admitted to some of the short comeings and said I will be taken care of. Now since these were both to short and way to tight I have nothing to lose but can gain a nice quality pair of I-Cs.free of charge excluding mail to California to get this going.I know most of you guys are not in favor of this product but for free we'll see what I get and how long it takes to get here.Any thoughts from the peanut gallery
or better free than doing nothing. I would not pass the old ones on to an unsuspecting party......lw

leftwinger57

Oh by the by you guys are so off base as for my name.
EVER HEAR OF A LEFTWINGER IN ICE HOCKEY.......putz

xj4094dg

Actually no. I'm not a hockey fan. It makes sense to me now, its just unfortunate that the name "leftwinger" carries baggage with it when context is not obvious to non-hockey fans. No worries, and for the record, I've been called ALOT worse than putz.

Good luck with your system.

leftwinger57

Putz, in a nice polite way of saying it. But yes I do have a power amp which stays cool all the way.when being used as a avr.Then it tends to get warm, as for the dock it is still pretty cool. The only time where it is a little to hot is when it takesover as a pre/pro/.If I set the speakers to large I think I'll be all right .And now the fan that is do should resolve all my concerns. Please do not take any offense to some minor name calling

xj4094dg

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Putz, in a nice polite way of saying it. But yes I do have a power amp which stays cool all the way.when being used as a avr.Then it tends to get warm, as for the dock it is still pretty cool. The only time where it is a little to hot is when it takesover as a pre/pro/.If I set the speakers to large I think I'll be all right .And now the fan that is do should resolve all my concerns. Please do not take any offense to some minor name calling

Non taken. Hell I would have left this place long ago if I couldn't take a little name-calling once in a while. This is supposed to be fun remember?

I have an old RXv663 in a spare room with extra amps and it never gets hot. I've never used the internal amps because its an all LSi setup and prefers 4ohm power. Again, good luck and welcome to clubpolk.

mrbigbluelight

Dave Perron of the St. Louis Blues ?
All good.


Although Perron was from Canada ....

All good, Leftwinger.

leftwinger57

me being not the brightest bulb in the pack, when you lower the ohms for a speaker load this exerts more work for the amp. Why are there different values for speakers in the first place.Make believe you are talking to a student w/ ever so slightly learning disabilities.Most of this stuff just flys over my head.

Glowrdr

I know some manufacturers rate things as lower ohms because it "boosts" the specs. i.e. a 100 watt 8 ohm speaker/amp COULD also be rated at 125 watts (into 4 ohms)

The tricky part is that not everything is rated accurately. The 140 watts per channel from my Pioneer Elite receiver are alot different than the 140 watts coming out of that Aiwa bookshwlf system.

NOT all things rated at 4 ohms or lower are crap. But not all things rated at 4 ohms or lower are STABLE at that load. I've had car amps that are stable down to 1 ohm.

If that got too confusing, the simplest way I can put it without keeping any factual references in check - is the difference between MPH and KPH. They are both speeds, and can be directly converted from one to the other for measurement purposes. But KPH has a much higher number so it looks better on paper.

Joe08867

LW, The reason for the difference in Ohm's ratings for speakers is all in how they build them. Lets look at Ohm's a different way.

Ohm's are like a water pipe, and your amplifier is like a water pump. The lower the ohm's rating the bigger the pipe. To fill a small 1 inch water pipe (8ohm) with 100psi of water is easy on the pump. To fill a larger 2 inch water pipe (4ohm) takes twice the work.

So if you look at it, the smaller the number the higher the amount of work the amplifier needs to do.

OK, now for speakers, not all speakers are created equal. Just look at the different models that Polk sells and you can see this is true. That said not all speaker drivers are created equal. Some speakers have very high ohm's ratings and some have very low ohm's ratings. It is all in the manufacturing of these speakers and how the speaker designer wants them to sound like.

How I understand it 8ohm speakers have more wire wrapped around the voice coil than a 4ohm speaker. This can effect the sound of the speaker in different ways. More midrange from a lower ohms speaker or more efficiency from a higher ohm rating.

So the ohm's of a speaker is just another way for the manufacturer to tailor the sound of the speaker.

fokakis1

Even though an amp may have a higher power rating with less resistance (i.e. 100W @ 8ohms, and 150W @4ohms), the level of distortion (THD) usually goes up as resistance goes down.