Interesting SACD vs 24/192 observation
Comments
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That's the great thing about a high end SACD player, you get excellent Redbook and SACD DAC's in one box.......two boxes in the case of dCS.
But I already own a high end dac that plays 24-bit just great, except for the closed, locked down SACD format. As more and more is becoming available through hdtracks, I'm happier and happier with my decision not to invest in SACD. Closed, locked down formats just aren't my thing.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
That's great, but you paid $80 for them? Generally an album is around $18, and you can often find coupon codes and get them as cheap as $15. I'm not looking to trade a portfolio of SACD's for a profit, I'm just looking to find great sounding 24-bit material.
This isn't an argument, really, I don't question the sound quality of SACD, nor anyone's reasoning for building up a collection. Just saying it's not a direction I want to go in.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
A high sq SACD player is essential to complete a hi-fi system.
RT1 -
normally I'd agree Ted, I'm afraid technology will render some of this stuff obsolete. Still, if your main focus is quality, I still don't see digital downloads that get the breath,tone of music down pat like a good analog rig.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
normally I'd agree Ted, I'm afraid technology will render some of this stuff obsolete. Still, if your main focus is quality, I still don't see digital downloads that get the breath,tone of music down pat like a good analog rig.
You're saying that as if SACD is an analog source.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
You're saying that as if SACD is an analog source.
May have sounded that way, so let me clarify. The basis of the arguement stems from hi rez digital downloaded music verses a dedicated SACD player. Both have their advantages and uses. If the arguement is, will downloaded hi rez music sound as good if not better than SACD, IMHO...possibly, quality among discs and downloads vary as we all know. For me,SACD gets more of the flesh of the music over hi rez, as far as I've heard on other systems anyway. Played back on the right gear, I think hi rez can be the new contender for audio playback.
I haven't quite put my finger on it yet, hi rez sounds good,very good in fact, but somethings missing. Maybe it takes better gear to bring it out, I dunno, the more I listen to various systems, seems like something is just not exactly as good as a hunk of metal with a quality analog output stage is. I can say the same for sacd verses vinyl too.
So to sum up, do we really want another obsolete format ? Vinyl lovers cling to their records for the obvious reasons, nobody can reproduce it digitally and keep the breath,width and tone of a good record. SACD comes close, and hi rez comes close to sacd if not as good under certain conditions. I think we are seeing a battle for obsolete formats today. The cassette bit the dust, 8-track bit the dust, cd's will soon bite the dust, sacd will too as more use hi rez downloaded music. Vinyl will remain king of obsolete formats.
Hi rez, like it or not is the future. Seems it takes more thought into playing it than most are use to. Lets face it,we still have a huge percent of the people who are not computer literate. First is downloading it, tagging it,storing it, then compatability issues on playing it, formats, then file sharing, backing it all up so you don't lose it....it's a hassle compared to a regular cd or sacd that you slide in the tray and forgetaboutit. Once they make it more user friendly to the masses, it will no doubt take off. The convenience factor is the big seller. I remember when vhs recorders came out, people were frickin' scared of those things, older folks didn't know how to operate them, and the clock was always flashing. Let me say though, if hi rez doesn't adress some issues and wait too long, like sacd did, then they too maybe looking at themselves as an obsolete format in the years to come.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Programs such as J. River do all the ripping and tagging for you, it's very simple.
And how hard is it to back up a music library, even my parents can figure out how to back up their data. :biggrin:"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
May have sounded that way, so let me clarify. The basis of the arguement stems from hi rez digital downloaded music verses a dedicated SACD player. Both have their advantages and uses. If the arguement is, will downloaded hi rez music sound as good if not better than SACD, IMHO...possibly, quality among discs and downloads vary as we all know. For me,SACD gets more of the flesh of the music over hi rez, as far as I've heard on other systems anyway. Played back on the right gear, I think hi rez can be the new contender for audio playback.
I haven't quite put my finger on it yet, hi rez sounds good,very good in fact, but somethings missing. Maybe it takes better gear to bring it out, I dunno, the more I listen to various systems, seems like something is just not exactly as good as a hunk of metal with a quality analog output stage is. I can say the same for sacd verses vinyl too.
So to sum up, do we really want another obsolete format ? Vinyl lovers cling to their records for the obvious reasons, nobody can reproduce it digitally and keep the breath,width and tone of a good record. SACD comes close, and hi rez comes close to sacd if not as good under certain conditions. I think we are seeing a battle for obsolete formats today. The cassette bit the dust, 8-track bit the dust, cd's will soon bite the dust, sacd will too as more use hi rez downloaded music. Vinyl will remain king of obsolete formats.
Hi rez, like it or not is the future. Seems it takes more thought into playing it than most are use to. Lets face it,we still have a huge percent of the people who are not computer literate. First is downloading it, tagging it,storing it, then compatability issues on playing it, formats, then file sharing, backing it all up so you don't lose it....it's a hassle compared to a regular cd or sacd that you slide in the tray and forgetaboutit. Once they make it more user friendly to the masses, it will no doubt take off. The convenience factor is the big seller. I remember when vhs recorders came out, people were frickin' scared of those things, older folks didn't know how to operate them, and the clock was always flashing. Let me say though, if hi rez doesn't adress some issues and wait too long, like sacd did, then they too maybe looking at themselves as an obsolete format in the years to come.
Totally depends on gear and masters. I'd bet you can take a low end SACD player and compare it to hi-rez downloads playing through some $20,000 dac, and come to the conclusion that hi-rez sounds better.
Or you can take an SACD based on an inferior master, and compare to a hi-rez file from a superior master, and come to the conclusion that hi-rez is better.
You can't compare the sound quality of SACD versus hi-rez downloads without first knowing they are identical masters.... seems like something is just not exactly as good as a hunk of metal with a quality analog output stage is...
True. That's why I have a top-notch DAC.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Here's my hunk of metal with a quality analog output stage:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred4/dac.htmlGood music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
I can afford a lot of hdtracks downloads for what that player would cost me.
This may interest you."High sample-rate music downloads are not all they seem"
http://www.itrax.com/Pages/ArticleDetails.php?aID=32Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
This may interest you.
A little. Basically it is saying "Buyer beware.", which is always good advice. The article is about 'High-res' files that are not really high-res. Just reformatted CD quality files being sold as high-res. The important point is that a true high-res file will be much better than a CD file. Just as a CD is much better than a MP3.
Anyway, this is a good example of why we have reviews. Hopefully, if somebody tries to repackage a CD as a high-res file the reviewer will point it out. That is their job. Of course, Club Polk members will pick up any slack.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
The article is about 'High-res' files that are not really high-res. Just reformatted CD quality files being sold as high-res. The important point is that a true high-res file will be much better than a CD file.
I'd say the important point is that a helluva lotta people got or are still being ripped off.
Buyer beware, indeed. It was noted by another that as little as a year ago HTtracks became aware that fully 50% of their hi-rez downloads were indeed not. They supposedly removed them. Feel lucky today?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That's it! I'm sticking with cassettes!
Ok, here's a question... How can you tell? I've now got a few titles, I'd be interested in analyzing a bit and see if the hdtracks downloads are the "real deal."
Also, take note that the article references some SACD's as having the same issues, so I don't consider this to be an SACD vs. Hi-Rez download issue. It just means that all 24-bit is not created equal.
Very interesting read though, thanks for sharing.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Exactly.I would be suspicious of any reissue of older music as being nothing more than upsampled from lower bit depth sources.However the newer original hi rez recordings from the likes Chesky, AIX(Itracks) and Linn Records are a safe bet to be authentic.Basically it is saying "Buyer beware.", which is always good advice. -
My other point is, the subtleties that occur beyond, say, a $2500 digital front-end are so minute as to almost be a waste of time (and money) when other components could do far more for the money.
Of course, if you have money falling out of hind-quarters, then disregard; but I'd say the above statement applies for 99.5% of the Polk Forum membership.
LOL funny about the hind-quarters -
Do some research and check Audiocircle's "Hi Res" Circle, there are some there who analyze new high res releases to see if they're bogus or not. If they're 88/24 or 176/24, there's a very good chance it's a DSD(SACD) rip.That's it! I'm sticking with cassettes!
Ok, here's a question... How can you tell? I've now got a few titles, I'd be interested in analyzing a bit and see if the hdtracks downloads are the "real deal.""He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
