SR5250 in an active 3-way front?

Vital

Would it be a good idea to use SR5250 in an active 3-way front together with some 8'' woofer or am i better off getting a 3-4'' midrange speaker instead of 5.25'' SR?

If answer is "yes, it'll def work" - what 8'' would you recommend?

MacLeod

Absolutely it will work. 5's are best for midrange cause they can play down nice and low whereas a 3 or 4 cant get much below 500.

As for which 8, check out Parts Express for something like a Tang Band. Since youre not gonna need much above 80 Hz from them, you wont have to be super picky.

arun1963

Also, if you're going 3 way active, make sure you have tons of dsp at hand. Either a loaded hu or an outboard processor. While you can go active by just control over xover points, having everything else will let you take max advantage of being active.

Vital

This 3-way thing is really just a bunch of research for my next car, whatever it'll be all i know is that now i want 3-way so might as well start looking into it now to be all ready when time comes.

So midbass will only play 40/50-80ishHz range?? I thought it should be at least 100, maybe even 150ish..... Obviously will depend on car/speaker/setup but still...

arun1963

In a typical 3 way, with a sub, a 6.5-7" mid bass, a 2-3" mid range and a tweet, your cross over points may look something like this:

Sub : 20-50/60hz
Mid Bass : 50 - 3/400hz
Mid Range : 3/400 - 2-4khz
Tweets : 2-4khz up.

The lower end of each driver is pretty much defined by its physical capability.
You're planning to run a 7" mid bass and a 5.25" mid range. The 5.25 will play down to 80 well. Hence your cut off's may look something like this:

Sub : 20-50hz
Mid bass : 50-80hz
5.25" Mid Range : 80-2-4khz
tweets : 2-4khz up

That said you could also run the mid bass 50-300 and let the 5.25 kick in from there. You'd have to try it both ways to see what works better.

If the setup is still in conceptual stage, give some thought to how you're going to tune all this.

Vital

^^^ That makes sense.

Meanwhile back to reality of 5250 bi-amped in the front and 124 in the trunk - i can get oldkool PPI FRX-456 active xover in great condition (can pass for brand new) to replace my currect SR passive x-overs.

Slopes on it are only 12db for speakers (24 for sub) and cut off points i can actually use for speakers (keep in mind i also have a set of SR6500 i can replace 5250s with if i will want to) are:
2.65KHz
3.12KHz
3.77KHz
4.90KHz

Yes, i know, 12db slope isn't what most applications would need but what are your thoughts on getting PPI xover for SRs (be it 5250 or 6500)?

Vital

arun1963 wrote: »

If the setup is still in conceptual stage, give some thought to how you're going to tune all this.

Unlike current setup where i changed soooo much i don't even wanna think about it - speakers, amps, wiring, added other "accessories", dampening... till i got to something i trully like next one will hopefully be "do it once and enjoy forever" based on my experience i gained over the course if this current set-up.
Main issue right now is that i LOVE double din h/units and navi is an absolute must for me. Currently there's no active double dins which is what i'd love to have in order to keep in as simple as possible with at least amount of other "links in the chain".

arun1963

Vital wrote: »

Main issue right now is that i LOVE double din h/units and navi is an absolute must for me. Currently there's no active double dins which is what i'd love to have in order to keep in as simple as possible with at least amount of other "links in the chain".

This won't let you go active, but at least you'll get a ton of tuning features along with navi and dvd. Expensive as hell though.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=&q=buy+DNX9980HD&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4224068107997716442&os=sellers&sa=X&ei=pX3_TduiNo_xrQeXkuz3Dw&ved=0CB0Q_QgwAQ

Vital

That's exactly the one i was looking at not too long ago since i already have Kenwood DNX which means all wiring is there, Sirius adapter and steering wheel control will work, all i need to do is a simple unit swap. Problem is that this unit along with last year's model (9960) is slow as hell and freezes up once in a while (that's in short, there a whole list of things this unit can't do well)

According to people on Kenwood's forum what Kenwood did here was load a bunch of new features on a processor that wasn't doing too well with less features to begin with.

I just can't justify paying over $1,500 for a headunit that will irritate me all the time.

arun1963

Vital wrote: »

^^^ That makes sense.

Meanwhile back to reality of 5250 bi-amped in the front and 124 in the trunk - i can get oldkool PPI FRX-456 active xover in great condition (can pass for brand new) to replace my currect SR passive x-overs.

Slopes on it are only 12db for speakers (24 for sub) and cut off points i can actually use for speakers (keep in mind i also have a set of SR6500 i can replace 5250s with if i will want to) are:
2.65KHz
3.12KHz
3.77KHz
4.90KHz

Yes, i know, 12db slope isn't what most applications would need but what are your thoughts on getting PPI xover for SRs (be it 5250 or 6500)?

Going active is a start. You would then use the other tools like l/r eq, ta and slopes to get a more balanced response from your drivers. Even if you don't have all this, a choice between 5 crossover points (including passive) will let you pick one that sounds best for your car.

I prefer steep slopes. It gives a more focused image. For now I wouldn't worry too much about slopes. Just try the different points and see what sounds best. If you're running the SR tweet, I would actually prefer the 5250. With a tweet that plays low, I would go with the 6500.

Vital

arun1963 wrote: »

If you're running the SR tweet, I would actually prefer the 5250. With a tweet that plays low, I would go with the 6500.

Since 6500 woofer plays 50Hz without breaking a sweat will getting some 3'' midrange instead of 8''midbass in addition to SR6500 set be a better way to go?
This way i'll take some of the higher frequecy range off the woofer and lower range off the tweeter. WIN/WIN lol. Sounds good in theory... for some reason you guys always have a way of breaking my theories to pieces :biggrin:

arun1963

I'm not breaking your theory to pieces. The 5250 would work well as a dedicated midrange. We are just discussing different options.

Vital

So if "all things equal" - which would be a better way to go?

SR5250 + 8'' speaker for midbass or
SR6500 + 3-4'' speaker for midrange?

arun1963

All things cannot be equal with those two selections.

There are two things you have to look at. The physical capability of the drivers and driver placement. If I was going to run a 3 way here is what I would look at doing. Again there's no right or wrong, just different ways.

I would want my midbass, deep in the floorwell. Either in kicks or by cutting some metal and mounting them free air. Mounting them as far forward as possible would give better depth perception. For me this would be very important since my stock locations are high on the door just about where the dash starts. If your stock location is low on the doors and a bit forward, thats an edge to start with. I would use the midbass for the 50~400 range.

I would place the mid range and the tweets up high. Dash level or A pillars. Your height cues are from frequencies ~1.5khz and higher. Having these drivers physically higher would help with the stage height. It would be tough to mount a 5.25" driver on the pillar. Hence I would lean towards a 3" mid range and a 1.5" tweet both mounted in pillars cross firing. This is how would run the sr-6500 / 3" mid range and / tweet.

If I had to do a 3 way with the 5250, I would still mount the 5.25" as far forward as possible and run it from say 60~500hz. I would then mount a mid range and tweet on the pillars. Midrange 500~2khz and tweet 2khz up. I would need to work a bit on the 50~80hz range by tweaking the sub and the 5250, but it should not be a problem.

Although I can use the 5250 in a 3 way as a dedicated mid range, I wouldn't cause I want my midrange physically higher and I wouldn't be comfortable about adding a pair of drivers to just play half an octave, i.e. adding a 7" midbass to run the 50-80 range. I could run the 7" to play the 50~300hz range, but like most mid bass drivers the 7" may focus more on mass than energy while playing the mid bass. I would not be comfortable with that.

With the right tuning, you can get both options sounding very nice. The one point I will repeat is, If you are going to go with a three way get some tuning power first.

Vital

Arun, you've been a big help thru this ongoing process, thank you!!

So after some chewing on what you guys said and going thru a bunch of older threads on diyma I think I’ll go with SR6500 and 3-4’’ midrange. Tweet and midrange will be placed on the dash or a-pillars and SR woofer in stock door location as long as it’s by the floor and “deep in”

What 3-4’’ midrange would work/blend nicely with SR6500?
Something that would also sound nice in 400-4,000 range (approximately, give or take)

Here’s what I’ll look like:
SR tweets
3-4’’ midrange (to be determined)
SR 6.5 woofers

PA500.4 will power tweets and midrange and
C300.2 will power SR 6.5 woofers
And of course PA1200.1/SR124dvc

I already have all the components except for midrange speakers.
Since this project isn’t something I’ll looking to do asap I’ll make sure to get a really nice headunit with ta, eq and all the bells and whistles.

Vital

Anyone?

Which 3'' would work/blend really nice with SR6500?

arun1963

I think you need to know the vehicle you'll be putting this in first. You don't want a vehicle / speaker mismatch. Then again maybe you're asking a 'what if' kind of question.

You get midrange drivers from about 2-4". The bigger the cone the lower you can cross it with your midbass. A good 4" will play down to 200hz. But the 4" may be a pita to install on your pillars. Unless you get the right baffle it could also have issues with reflections off the dash. A 3" is a typical compromise. It will get you go down to about 3-400hz and it would be a bit easier to install.

Dream set up?

1. The SR 6500 mid bass 50hz-300hz
2. This for a 4" midrange (with the right install and baffles) running300hz-2khz. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_234_265&products_id=8728
3. This tweeter https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_324&products_id=8497 2khz+

I'd pay attention to the mounting the midrange and tweets close together and on similar axis. I would for sure run a processor that let me set everything manually.