Outdoor Speaker Dilemma

grimmace19

Here goes nothing;

As the summer advances and outdoor activities get livelier here at my place, I have noticed that my onkyo 505 receiver running my Atrium Sat30 Speakers and atrium subwoofer is getting VERY hot. I am using the A and B setup where the outdoors are on B and indoor speakers on A because this receiver runs my secondary setup in the living room.

It seems that the B side of my receiver must not be very powerful because the receiver has to be turned up to about 80% to get any decent volume outside but in that I've had to turn down my indoor speakers on the A side to -9db to balance it out.

So here's the problem, I feel that I'm going to overheat and destroy my receiver if I don't power the outdoor speakers on their own. I use an ipod out there all the time and would still like to enjoy it indoors as well.

-Would it work to get a headphone splitter plugged into two different rca-headphone cords that run into two separate sources? That way I could get a power amp and preamp to run the ipod outside and still have it go inside on the onkyo. Or, would this make it sound like crap?

tonyb

Can't you just add a small amp to the zone for outside or do you not have preouts for that ?
Another option is to connect to a speaker switch box that only connects to zone a, that way you can switch between sets of speakers with the full power of zone A.
And yet another option, depending on budget, is to get a sonos system. They have all sorts of ways to power your existing speaks, and you can do everything wirelessly.

treitz3

Hey Grimmace, how long is the run between the outdoor speakers and the AVR?

grimmace19

Tony, nope to the pre-outs. As for a switch box, I want all speakers to be able to run the same music at the same time.

The wire run is less than 20 feet at the furthest. The way the sub needs to be hooked up is that a positive and negative need to be attached to both left and right speaker terminals. Therefore, there are 2 sets of wires running from each terminal on B if that makes sense. However, even with the 4 runs of wire, I did it all on a 50 foot spool. Regardless of the wire, those speakers didn't get loud even when I hooked up the speakers to B with the wire that's already attached to them (4 feet or so)

treitz3

What is the ohm rating for the outdoor speakers and if you possibly have it, the sensitivity of them?

Outfitter03

grimmace19 wrote: »

Tony, nope to the pre-outs. As for a switch box, I want all speakers to be able to run the same music at the same time.

The wire run is less than 20 feet at the furthest. The way the sub needs to be hooked up is that a positive and negative need to be attached to both left and right speaker terminals. Therefore, there are 2 sets of wires running from each terminal on B if that makes sense. However, even with the 4 runs of wire, I did it all on a 50 foot spool. Regardless of the wire, those speakers didn't get loud even when I hooked up the speakers to B with the wire that's already attached to them (4 feet or so)

Are you running the inside and outside speakers at the same time when you are getting this low output and overheating.? The sub hookup is for the inside or out?.

If it was me I would take 20-30 minutes to do some comparisons on hookups.
Outdoor on A, Outdoor on B, Outdoor on A with Indoor on B, Outdoor on B with Indoor on A without Sub.

If you are having to turn the volume up above 50-60% the long term outcome will not be good. By switching things around, it will help you determine what is going on and also answer the "Speaker Efficiency" question asked earlier. The Sub "should" not be having an effect, but while swapping, might as well add that to the mix.

grimmace19

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/atrium/specs.php#sat30

That's the link to the tech specs... 8 ohms so it shouldn't be an issue.

Regardless of having A and B running at the same time, the outdoor speakers don't get the volume I desire. Switching things around from A/B for the indoor and outdoor speakers wouldn't get my desired results anyways as the indoor speakers also run with a center channel for tv viewing.

So, with all of this, it just seems the onkyo cant handle things with it's B set so would it work to get a headphone splitter that attaches to 2 different rca-headphone cables and plug the ipod into two sources at once so I can listen to music inside and out at the same time?

DaveHo

I suspect that there's an issue with the wiring to your outdoor speakers causing the amp to work harder & heat up. Engaging the B speakers just parallels them with the A speakers. Just for kicks hook you outdoor speakers to the A terminals. I'll bet you still have the same problem.

-Dave

grimmace19

How could this be a wiring issue if I hooked them up with the wires already attached to the speakers first? It was the exact same then, but inside they sounded louder and for a short time wasn't making the receiver fry eggs. I tested them before running the lengths outside to make sure they were what I wanted.

Outfitter03

grimmace19 wrote: »

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/atrium/specs.php#sat30

Regardless of having A and B running at the same time, the outdoor speakers don't get the volume I desire. Switching things around from A/B for the indoor and outdoor speakers wouldn't get my desired results anyways as the indoor speakers also run with a center channel for tv viewing.

So did you try switching things around and what were the results?

BeefJerky

grimmace19 wrote: »

How could this be a wiring issue if I hooked them up with the wires already attached to the speakers first? It was the exact same then, but inside they sounded louder and for a short time wasn't making the receiver fry eggs. I tested them before running the lengths outside to make sure they were what I wanted.

I'm sure they did sound louder indoors vs indoors. To get equivalent sound outside, you need quite a bit more power. You're trying to fill a (much) larger space, not to mention you have a good bit of background noise to compete with.

In addition to all that, you are also dealing with a passive dual-voice-coil subwoofer. This is asking way too much from your receiver IMO. Polk says the sub can handle up to 200w RMS per channel, and I'd recommend powering it with close to that amount of power as you can.

Your Onkyo receiver is only rated 75w RMS with two channels driven, but you say you are running the indoor speakers at the same time, so you are getting even less wattage than that. You are really pushing your receiver to (or even past) its limits. I'm not surprised that it gets as hot as you claim. I agree with a previous suggestion to get a separate (and more powerful) amp to dedicate to the outdoor speakers.

Would it work to get a headphone splitter plugged into two different rca-headphone cords that run into two separate sources? That way I could get a power amp and preamp to run the ipod outside and still have it go inside on the onkyo. Or, would this make it sound like crap?

If you decide to go the preamp/amp route, I would suggest looking for a preamp that already has two outputs; many do. This would allow you to plug the iPod into the preamp, and have it output to both your receiver and your power amp.

Ricardo

I have an old Dynaco pre and an Adcom 535 powering my Atriums. I paid less than $200 for them (am and pre). Over 100ft of wire and sounds loud and clear.

The thing is that I use a SQB Touch as source and it has dual outputs; digital goes to the receiver (indoor), analog goes to the Dynaco pre (outdoors).

grimmace19

Beefjerkey and Ricardo... thank you, those were both very helpful posts. I think going with the amp route is about my only option at this point... the wife wont like it but then again who cares?

Toolfan66

Hey Nick, I just received my Polk Atrium 65SDI's yesterday. I thought of hooking them up to my main rig like you did but went against it as it would be a pain in the **** just running the wire, so I am looking at getting a Peachtree Idecco for the family room that sits right behind my deck and patio, thay way I can run my laptop and/or ipod off it..

I think getting an amp is your best bet. getting a 535/545 is the cheapest way to go with great results..

tonyb

Larry, do alittle research on the peachtree, apparently there have been some quality control issues. I think it was on audiogon's discussion forum that I first heard about it.

grimmace19

I am seeing a sonance sonamp 260 on craigslist right now listed for 100 bucks... only 60 watts per channel into 8 ohms but I think that's going to be more than enough compared to the B side of my onkyo

BeefJerky

I would personally suggest a minimum of 100 watts a channel. I say that because you are using a passive subwoofer, which needs a good bit of power.

mdaudioguy

grimmace19 wrote: »

I am seeing a sonance sonamp 260 on craigslist right now listed for 100 bucks... only 60 watts per channel into 8 ohms but I think that's going to be more than enough compared to the B side of my onkyo

I just bought a pair of AudioSource AMP-100s for dedicated outdoor use (well, the amps are indoors).
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120766

grimmace19

Has anyone ever tried hooking a source directly into the amp? For instance plugging an rca-headphone cable into the amp inputs and using an ipod. This way I could eliminate a preamp all together and use that money towards something with more power.

grimmace19

Yet another follow up. After talking to tech support on crutchfield, the worker said that I could use the tape out function on my onkyo 505 into the amplifier... does this make any sense? If I did this, how would I hook up my ipod?

BeefJerky

grimmace19 wrote: »

Yet another follow up. After talking to tech support on crutchfield, the worker said that I could use the tape out function on my onkyo 505 into the amplifier... does this make any sense? If I did this, how would I hook up my ipod?

If you're Onkyo has it, that would be a way to share the sources. Just be aware you won't be able to share any source hooked to the "tape in."

Also, you would still need an amp with its own volume control, since the "tape out" is a fixed level output.

grimmace19

I have found my solution!

I snapped up a Kenwood KM-Z1 amplifier and the matching KC-Z1 preamplifier for 200 bucks!

I know I know, kenwood doesn't make the best stuff but the amp is rated at 130 watts per channel x 6 so there is always room to add two more satellites in the yard next year.

All is hooked up and sounding much better and much much louder than before. A bit too late in the neighborhood for me to really test things out but this should work perfectly.

Topper

hey post some pix of the setup will ya. Always been curious bout them Polk garden speakers.