For the intense listeners...question that's been bugging me..

Pycroft
Pycroft Posts: 1,960
edited June 2011 in The Clubhouse
Hi all...two questions that are similar but probably different. Please state which one(s) you are answering. Thanks, and happy Friday...

1) Is there a desired listening volume for optimal listening? It seems to me that the listening quality improves as I increase the volume up to a certain point. I'm not sure if that's just in my head. Does the sound QUALITY increase with volume? Can the quality be the same at low levels? What does it depend on? I think I've got a pretty high quality system and not sure if it's dependent on anything?

2) I've seen in a few posts that some amps are rated type A up to say, 15 watts, then it switches to A/B or B or something else. What exactly does that mean? Does that also have to do with volume ??? I'm assuming that the watts that the amp has to use goes up with volume...am I mistaken?

Thanks...

James
2 Channel/HT:
Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
Harman Kardon HK354
Sony SACD Player
Post edited by Pycroft on
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Comments

  • fishbones
    fishbones Posts: 947
    edited June 2011
    Queston #1, certain speakers and/or electronics need a certain amount of volume to "open-up" and reveal their full potential. Or, certian higher volumes could be what "rings your bell"?

    Question #2 might open a debate can of worms, but maybe someone can give you a straightforward answer? I've wondered it too, but it always turns into what is true Class A, yadda yadda, that goes over my head and frankly don't care, because I would rather hear for myself.
    ..... ><////(*>
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    1) is totally dependant on your gear and the amp is probably the single factor in that. Right now my current amp has incredible low level resolution.

    2)is the design and I'd suggest you search the archives because there is no short answer. This has been discussed extensively.

    Ironically, in very general terms, pure Class A amps seem to have excellent low level resolution as one of their strong points.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,004
    edited June 2011
    Pycroft wrote: »
    Is there a desired listening volume for optimal listening? It seems to me that the listening quality improves as I increase the volume up to a certain point. I'm not sure if that's just in my head. Does the sound QUALITY increase with volume? Can the quality be the same at low levels? What does it depend on? I think I've got a pretty high quality system and not sure if it's dependent on anything?
    This is system and room dependent. I answered it that way just based upon my own experiences with different rigs and scenarios. My desired listening volume is what it would be live.

    You wouldn't want to play an unamplified acoustic guitar solo at 120 Db, while at the same time you wouldn't want to play AC/DC at 65Db. I'm not so sure the quality increases as the volume increases. Again, this is system and room dependent. What I think you may be referring to is the overall landscape of the reproduction filling in as the volume increases. Hear me out.

    At low volumes, you can generally hear most of what the rig has to offer. As you increase the volume, you start to feel the music and become more emotionally involved with the music. There is no right or wrong. Only what sounds good to you.

    Now, as for the quality getting better as the volume increases? This is where I will fall back on that which is aforementioned. Each rig has so many different topologies, room acoustics, tonalities, reproductive qualities and other factors that the same song may sound bad on one setting of the volume, while on another, it sounds fantastic. Which is why I answered that it is system and room dependent. Enjoy it where you will.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2011
    Pycroft wrote: »

    1) Is there a desired listening volume for optimal listening? It seems to me that the listening quality improves as I increase the volume up to a certain point. I'm not sure if that's just in my head. Does the sound QUALITY increase with volume? Can the quality be the same at low levels? What does it depend on? I think I've got a pretty high quality system and not sure if it's dependent on anything?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited June 2011
    I think question one boils down to what sort of speakers you're listening to, how far away from them you are and, in what size/shape room you're in. I prefer AC/DC at zero decibels, but that's just me I guess.:smile:
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  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    edited June 2011
    Question one is totally a personal thing,IMHO.

    Question two requires that you do some research on the subject,also IMHO.
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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  • quadzilla
    quadzilla Posts: 1,543
    edited June 2011
    An answer to question 2 from Nelson Pass: http://www.passlabs.com/pdfs/articles/leaving_class_a.pdf
    Turntable: Empire 208
    Arm: Rega 300
    Cart: Shelter 501 III
    Phono Pre: Aural Thrills
    Digital: Pioneer DV-79ai
    Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
    Amp: Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000
    Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
    Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,240
    edited June 2011
    1) I thought I read somewhere that human hearing isn't linear up to a certain point. Maybe I was hearing things...

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Sony 75" Bravia 4K | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Rotel Michi P5 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited June 2011
    There is a sound to many instruments that is also tied to volume.
    A piano or drum strike can vary, but for a speaker to sound the same,
    it must have enough volume to make it sound real. Add that to the fact that
    many speakers don't seem to wake up until a certain point.
    On the other side of the coin, too much volume overloads the room,
    and causes stuff to resonate that affects the sound. Along with unwanted reflections, it takes away from the enjoyment of the music.
    Many here use room treatments to control unwanted vibration and room reflections.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited June 2011
    gdb wrote: »
    I think question one boils down to what sort of speakers you're listening to, how far away from them you are and, in what size/shape room you're in. I prefer AC/DC at zero decibels, but that's just me I guess.:smile:

    Not just you.:wink::biggrin:

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,114
    edited June 2011
    The Man Cave set up is meant to be played at untolerable levels, so I've been told but sounds tolerable to me. The wife approved set up sounds good at the wifes listening levels and sounds good at oh boy the wifes gone level time to enjoy.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
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    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited June 2011
    I've noticed when playing louder the sound of the room takes over more if it is somewhat live.

    As far as volume, seems like it should reflect the venue of the music. Nice soft spoken songs should reflect what it would sound like in reality while Kiss or other such music might be appreciated at a stadium level.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited June 2011
    I-SIG wrote: »
    1) I thought I read somewhere that human hearing isn't linear up to a certain point. Maybe I was hearing things...

    Wes

    Face answered this in his post 2 spaces above yours. Follow the link to see the Fletcher Muson Curves and the correlation between spl and relative perceived loudness at a given frequency.

    A fun and interesting reference:http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

    you can click on the "ear sensitivity chart" on the right hand side to see the Fletcher-Munson Curve in a simplified graph.
    design is where science and art break even.
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