My impressions of SDA SRS 2.3TL's Vs. 3.1TL's
headrott
Posts: 5,496
I finally got my recently aquired SDA SRS 2.3TL peakers spiked, back binding post plates switched out (from the 3.1TL's) and hooked up to the following equipment:
Aragon 8008bb amplifier
BAT VK-3i preamp with 4 Amperex 1959 "D-getter" ECC88/6DJ8 tubes and 2 Bendix 5992 tubes
My own built DAC found in this thread: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119264
And using a Denon DCD-3000 as a transport and a Denon DVD-5910 as a Super Audio CD player
My own made AI-1 "Dreadnaught" per DK's instructions
Cables between the DAC and preamp are MIT Shotgun S3 balanced and the same for between the preamp and amp
Using my own made Digital cable using VH audio Pulsar AG cable and WBT 154 AG connectors dor S/PDIF ceonnection
Now for the comparison:
I have owned the 3.1TL's for about 2 years now and have done absolutely every mod there is to be done (that people have come up with so far) to them. that is: I've put Dynamat extreme on all drivers and passives, I have installed Larry's rings into them, I have redone the crossovers with Sonicaps on HF and LF as well as Mills resistors, and I have used Mortite to further couple the drivers to the speaker face, I installed RDO-198 tweeters and lastly I have spiked them. The sound that the 3.1TL's produce before the modifications were nice, but not outstanding. There was definately room for improvement and the modifications definately realised that fact. The clarity after installing Larry's rings was a phenominal upgrade to the sound. The overal clarity to the audio produced was outstanding. The lower and midbase were much more clear and focused. Also, the lower and middle midrange was much more clear and focused. After the crossovers were redone, the sound took on a smoothness and had better tone as well as better high end and low end extension. The balance of the audio spectrum was much better from what I heard after the crossovers had been redone. Spikes also helped with the clarity of the bass and with imaging a well. It was much easier to pinpoint where the different instruments and voices were coming from precisely. Finally, the RDO-198 tweeters brought clarity, better imaging and a smoothness to the highs that were not as present with the SL3000 tweeters.
With the equipment I have listed above, the SDA SRS 3.1TL's brought phenomially clear, accurate and relatively "present" sound. I was happy with them. I was thiniing I would not upgrade beyond the 3.1TL's. Then, about 2 weeks ago Bill (bsoko2) had a pair of SDA SRS 2.3TL's for sale in Washington (about 3 hours from me). I ended up going up and looking at them and they were in nice shape, certainly not perfect but pretty nice. I bought them and barely fit (I mean barely) them into my Honda CRX (thanks Bill for the help with loading them
). I drove them home and moved them downstairs and disonnected the 3.1TL's. The 2.3TL's are quite a bit bigger than the 3.1TL's I noticed. Both in width and hight. They are like a 2B on serious steroids. I could not use the 2.3TL's though because I need the AI-1 cable I made to be able to use them with the Aragon. Unfortunately, the way I have the AI-1 wired, I need an extra binding post for the "pin" connection which the 2.3TL's in their current state did not have. That's the reason I asked about switching the back binding post plates between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's. I checked the wires per Jesse's advice and found the wires were interchangable. I switched the binding post plates and wires connecting them to the crossovers, put some spikes on the 2.3TL's and wired them up. Also, in case you're wondering the 2.3TLs' crossovers were already redone with all Sonicaps on HF and LF as well as Mills resistors. Also, the tweeters were replaced with RDO-198's. The only difference between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's is the Dynamat extreme and Larry's rings were not installed (yet) on the 2.3TL's.
After double checking to make sure the audio sounded OK comming from the system, I let it warm up for a couple hours. After the warm up I went downstairs to do a listening session.
The first song(s) I played through them was one I knew very well comming froim the 3.1TL's. It was ".....And the Gods Made Love" and "Have You Ever Been (To Electric Ladyland)". One thing I can say is that immediately I noticed more of a presence comming from the 2.3TL's compared to the 3.1TL's. When I asked Jesse if it would be a worthwhile upgrade I asked would there be more bass, SDA "effect", etc. And his response was that "You'll get more of everything." This was exactly correct. Thanks Jesse for the good advice. The amount of sound comming from the 2.3TL's compared to the 3.1TL's was pretty significant. I would say half again more of "everything". I was immediately impressed. The audio comming from the 2.3TL's playing "....And the Gods Made Love" was like being in a "sonic tornado"! Amazing!!
Next, I played "We Have Heaven" and "South Side of the Sky" From the Mobile Fidelity version of "Fragile". The SDA "effect" and presence of these songs are amazing on the 2.3TL's! On a (temporary only) down side of things is that I did notice without Larry's rings the 2.3TL's were not as clear sounding as the 3.1TL's. This, I am sure can be rectified after installing Larry's rings (which I will do after finishing the 3.1TL crossover boards that gimpod (Tony) gave me).
I then contiunued with some SACD. I recently got "Who's Next" on SHM-SACD and put that in the Denon. The sound was the best I'd heard of this album. I do think it is a little lacking on the top end, but just a little. Maybe after a few plays it'll open up on the topend? I know others have said the audio improves the more you play the SHM CD's/SACD's. I definately cranked this one when I played it. Sounded great!
I then put on Queen's "A Night at the Opera" 30th anniversary CD. I played "You're My Best Friend", "'39", "Sweet Lady", "Seaside Rendevous", "The Prophet's Song" and "Love Of My Life". Very good sound! "The Prophet's Song" vocals by Mercury are phenomial! Imaging is great on the 2.3TL's! And, "Love Of My Life" sounds very nice! This song brings tears to my eyes it's so good.
I then played "In the Mood" by Robert Plant. This was the remastered "Principle of Moments". Best I've heard it sound so far! Phil Collins' drumming is amazing on here!
Next up was Al Stewart's "On the Border". This was form the Mobile Fidelity version of the CD (silver pressed CD). Very clear, and even sound comming from the 2.3TL's and this song. Still again, need Larry's rings to really make it shine though.
Last, I played Madonna's "Frozen" from her "Ray of Light" CD. If you've not heard this on SDA's go get it and play it. One of the best CD's on SDA's! I played this track because in the last 2/3's of the song there is a point where there is a "thud" of bass that repeats about 7 times. I specifically wanted to compare the amount of bass put out using this song between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's. The difference was pretty significant. The 2.3TL's left you quaking in your seat when the "thud" hit, there is a ripple effect that radiates from the speakers outward. It leaves you in your seat rumbling as it passes by you. the 2.3TL's had a very noticable higher amount of the rumble as it passes by compared to the 3.1TL's.
So, there you go. My (somewhat lengthy) observations of the differences between the 3.1TL's and the 2.3TL's. The 2.3TL's are definately a "more present" speaker. Not necessarily a better sounding one, just more "there" with everything. I hope this gives someone trying to decide what size SDA to get a more informed idea, or someone just wanting to know the audio differences bewteen these two great speakers.
Greg
Aragon 8008bb amplifier
BAT VK-3i preamp with 4 Amperex 1959 "D-getter" ECC88/6DJ8 tubes and 2 Bendix 5992 tubes
My own built DAC found in this thread: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119264
And using a Denon DCD-3000 as a transport and a Denon DVD-5910 as a Super Audio CD player
My own made AI-1 "Dreadnaught" per DK's instructions
Cables between the DAC and preamp are MIT Shotgun S3 balanced and the same for between the preamp and amp
Using my own made Digital cable using VH audio Pulsar AG cable and WBT 154 AG connectors dor S/PDIF ceonnection
Now for the comparison:
I have owned the 3.1TL's for about 2 years now and have done absolutely every mod there is to be done (that people have come up with so far) to them. that is: I've put Dynamat extreme on all drivers and passives, I have installed Larry's rings into them, I have redone the crossovers with Sonicaps on HF and LF as well as Mills resistors, and I have used Mortite to further couple the drivers to the speaker face, I installed RDO-198 tweeters and lastly I have spiked them. The sound that the 3.1TL's produce before the modifications were nice, but not outstanding. There was definately room for improvement and the modifications definately realised that fact. The clarity after installing Larry's rings was a phenominal upgrade to the sound. The overal clarity to the audio produced was outstanding. The lower and midbase were much more clear and focused. Also, the lower and middle midrange was much more clear and focused. After the crossovers were redone, the sound took on a smoothness and had better tone as well as better high end and low end extension. The balance of the audio spectrum was much better from what I heard after the crossovers had been redone. Spikes also helped with the clarity of the bass and with imaging a well. It was much easier to pinpoint where the different instruments and voices were coming from precisely. Finally, the RDO-198 tweeters brought clarity, better imaging and a smoothness to the highs that were not as present with the SL3000 tweeters.
With the equipment I have listed above, the SDA SRS 3.1TL's brought phenomially clear, accurate and relatively "present" sound. I was happy with them. I was thiniing I would not upgrade beyond the 3.1TL's. Then, about 2 weeks ago Bill (bsoko2) had a pair of SDA SRS 2.3TL's for sale in Washington (about 3 hours from me). I ended up going up and looking at them and they were in nice shape, certainly not perfect but pretty nice. I bought them and barely fit (I mean barely) them into my Honda CRX (thanks Bill for the help with loading them
). I drove them home and moved them downstairs and disonnected the 3.1TL's. The 2.3TL's are quite a bit bigger than the 3.1TL's I noticed. Both in width and hight. They are like a 2B on serious steroids. I could not use the 2.3TL's though because I need the AI-1 cable I made to be able to use them with the Aragon. Unfortunately, the way I have the AI-1 wired, I need an extra binding post for the "pin" connection which the 2.3TL's in their current state did not have. That's the reason I asked about switching the back binding post plates between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's. I checked the wires per Jesse's advice and found the wires were interchangable. I switched the binding post plates and wires connecting them to the crossovers, put some spikes on the 2.3TL's and wired them up. Also, in case you're wondering the 2.3TLs' crossovers were already redone with all Sonicaps on HF and LF as well as Mills resistors. Also, the tweeters were replaced with RDO-198's. The only difference between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's is the Dynamat extreme and Larry's rings were not installed (yet) on the 2.3TL's.After double checking to make sure the audio sounded OK comming from the system, I let it warm up for a couple hours. After the warm up I went downstairs to do a listening session.
The first song(s) I played through them was one I knew very well comming froim the 3.1TL's. It was ".....And the Gods Made Love" and "Have You Ever Been (To Electric Ladyland)". One thing I can say is that immediately I noticed more of a presence comming from the 2.3TL's compared to the 3.1TL's. When I asked Jesse if it would be a worthwhile upgrade I asked would there be more bass, SDA "effect", etc. And his response was that "You'll get more of everything." This was exactly correct. Thanks Jesse for the good advice. The amount of sound comming from the 2.3TL's compared to the 3.1TL's was pretty significant. I would say half again more of "everything". I was immediately impressed. The audio comming from the 2.3TL's playing "....And the Gods Made Love" was like being in a "sonic tornado"! Amazing!!
Next, I played "We Have Heaven" and "South Side of the Sky" From the Mobile Fidelity version of "Fragile". The SDA "effect" and presence of these songs are amazing on the 2.3TL's! On a (temporary only) down side of things is that I did notice without Larry's rings the 2.3TL's were not as clear sounding as the 3.1TL's. This, I am sure can be rectified after installing Larry's rings (which I will do after finishing the 3.1TL crossover boards that gimpod (Tony) gave me).
I then contiunued with some SACD. I recently got "Who's Next" on SHM-SACD and put that in the Denon. The sound was the best I'd heard of this album. I do think it is a little lacking on the top end, but just a little. Maybe after a few plays it'll open up on the topend? I know others have said the audio improves the more you play the SHM CD's/SACD's. I definately cranked this one when I played it. Sounded great!
I then put on Queen's "A Night at the Opera" 30th anniversary CD. I played "You're My Best Friend", "'39", "Sweet Lady", "Seaside Rendevous", "The Prophet's Song" and "Love Of My Life". Very good sound! "The Prophet's Song" vocals by Mercury are phenomial! Imaging is great on the 2.3TL's! And, "Love Of My Life" sounds very nice! This song brings tears to my eyes it's so good.
I then played "In the Mood" by Robert Plant. This was the remastered "Principle of Moments". Best I've heard it sound so far! Phil Collins' drumming is amazing on here!
Next up was Al Stewart's "On the Border". This was form the Mobile Fidelity version of the CD (silver pressed CD). Very clear, and even sound comming from the 2.3TL's and this song. Still again, need Larry's rings to really make it shine though.
Last, I played Madonna's "Frozen" from her "Ray of Light" CD. If you've not heard this on SDA's go get it and play it. One of the best CD's on SDA's! I played this track because in the last 2/3's of the song there is a point where there is a "thud" of bass that repeats about 7 times. I specifically wanted to compare the amount of bass put out using this song between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's. The difference was pretty significant. The 2.3TL's left you quaking in your seat when the "thud" hit, there is a ripple effect that radiates from the speakers outward. It leaves you in your seat rumbling as it passes by you. the 2.3TL's had a very noticable higher amount of the rumble as it passes by compared to the 3.1TL's.
So, there you go. My (somewhat lengthy) observations of the differences between the 3.1TL's and the 2.3TL's. The 2.3TL's are definately a "more present" speaker. Not necessarily a better sounding one, just more "there" with everything. I hope this gives someone trying to decide what size SDA to get a more informed idea, or someone just wanting to know the audio differences bewteen these two great speakers.
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\"){kind=small}
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
Post edited by headrott on
Comments
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Nice write up Greg, thanks for posting it.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Good review. Thanksengtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
Good review. Thanks
Glad you're enjoying em'!
Maybe I didn't catch this, but were the 2.3's XO's modified as well? -
I've found the 2.3TL to be the best example of SDA in the standard line-up. When modified, it's simply the finest example.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
-
audiocr381ve wrote: »Glad you're enjoying em'!
Maybe I didn't catch this, but were the 2.3's XO's modified as well?Also, in case you're wondering the 2.3TLs' crossovers were already redone with all Sonicaps on HF and LF as well as Mills resistors. Also, the tweeters were replaced with RDO-198's. The only difference between the 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's is the Dynamat extreme and Larry's rings were not installed (yet) on the 2.3TL's.
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
"Frozen" by Madonna is a mandatory SDA song. Turn the lights off, close your eyes and you are if for a sonic trip like no other. :biggrin:
I'm not surprised by your findings. The 2.3TL's have more drivers, more cabinet volume so sonically they should give you more.
Great write up ~ Enjoy
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Greg,
Glad that the right guy bought the 2.3's from me. From your review, you really appreciate music.
BillMy 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012 -
Great Write up! Made me download Yes "Fragile" Al Stewart "On the Border" just to hear them through my SDA's - Very Sweet sounds!!!Pioneer Elite SC-35, Polk RTA (Real Time Array) 12's,
Polk Monitor 40 surrounds, Polk CSiA4 Center,
Polk PSW125, Sharp LC-46D62U,
Panasonic DMP-BD85, Harmony One,
iMac streaming an Apple TVII, or Squeezebox Touch
Bedroom Rig~Sony STRDG-920, Polk Monitor 60 fronts, Polk RM6750 Satellites and Sub, Panasonic DMP-BD85
Rabbit Hole Rig~Yamaha CA1010, Yamaha CT1010, Polk SDA 2A's, Teac A1500 R2R -
Now I just wish I had some of the there 2.3's or 3.1's.Pioneer Elite SC-35, Polk RTA (Real Time Array) 12's,
Polk Monitor 40 surrounds, Polk CSiA4 Center,
Polk PSW125, Sharp LC-46D62U,
Panasonic DMP-BD85, Harmony One,
iMac streaming an Apple TVII, or Squeezebox Touch
Bedroom Rig~Sony STRDG-920, Polk Monitor 60 fronts, Polk RM6750 Satellites and Sub, Panasonic DMP-BD85
Rabbit Hole Rig~Yamaha CA1010, Yamaha CT1010, Polk SDA 2A's, Teac A1500 R2R -
Earlier today I finished adding Larry's Rings and dynamat to the drivers and passive radiators on my 2.3TL's. All I can say they sound fricking awesome!! The clarity is through the roof now, and even more pronounced is the imaging! I am not exaggerating when I saw the imaging is at least 50% better than before the rings and dynamat in the 2.3TL's. They are now more improved to my ears than the 3.1TL's with the mods. The 3D imaging and stereo separation is outstanding now! Gotta listen to some more albums!:biggrin:
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Here are some pictures of the left 2.3TL with the rings and tweeter brackets installed. There was no manipulation (cutting) required to the rings. I did need to chisle out a very small amount of the crossboards near the tweeters to get the brackets to go in. It was only about 1/4 of an inch cheseled out though. Not much at all. As I stated, the imaging and clarity is phenominal now after the rings and dynamat. Get some of Larry's rings for your SDA's!!!
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Greg, it's really amazing what those rings do for the sound, isn't it?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It absolutely is Jesse. Anyone who does not consider installing Larry's rings and dynamat into their SDA's (if they plan on keeping them) needs to have their head (and not just their hearing) examined, seriously.
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Great write up......
making me think i should not sell my 2.3 TLs now...........mole' -
Great write up......
making me think i should not sell my 2.3 TLs now...........
Do you have them modded yet? Crossovers with new caps, resistors (and even Gimpod's crossovers) Larry's rings, and dynamat installed?
Greg
Edit: I just read your for sale thread and noticed they are not modified at all. Do all of the above modifications (you already have the rings!!!) and I guarantee you won't want to sell them.
:biggrin:
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
that is an absolute must. :eek: Darqueknight's suggestion of replacing the 16 mH inductor with the Solen 10 awg.
I completed it two days ago. Write up forthcoming, but with 20 hours burn in I'm experiencing an improvement in bass weight, imaging and clarity at least on par with (and perhaps even better than) the crossover upgrade.
Want to get a few more hours on it before I post listening impressions."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Yeah, I have to say that, even bone stock, the 2.3 TLs are one of the best speakers I've ever heard. They're so good that, for once, I don't have the urge to immediately start modding them. I think I'm going to run mine for at least a couple of months stock. Then rings, Claritycaps, etc.Turntable: Empire 208
Arm: Rega 300
Cart: Shelter 501 III
Phono Pre: Aural Thrills
Digital: Pioneer DV-79ai
Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
Amp: Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000
Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified
