rti4 center channel? A little input on this scenario...

27dnast

Hey Folks

I need some veteran advice.

I currently have a HT set-up of 7.3 (I'll get to that ;-) using the rm6750.

Using the RM's, I have 2 fronts and a center channel... 2 side and 2 rear speakers... a 12" Energy Sub with a crossover controlled by a Pioneer Elite VSX-21THX.

Where's the other .2 you may ask? They are PSW10 subs that are wired to the center and front channels (respectively) via speaker-level wiring. I know this is weird... but I was trying to fill in a bit of the bass lacking from smaller rm6750 fronts and center (in the frequency between the crossover point and where the rm6750 fall off). Make sense?

Surprising, we've been really happy with this set-up.

I do find, however, that the center channel lacks in depth... frequently sounds muddy. And if you are off-center (seating wise) there is a drop-off in the your ability to hear the dialog clearly).

That brings me to now. I have about $350-400 lying around and I've been thinking about adding a little punch to my system.

I originally was intrigued by the Monitor 40 Series ii bookshelves and the CS2 center being sold on ebay... they were on sale and that sale just disappeared!!! I'm guessing those 3 would add a lot to my set-up and allow me to remove my speaker-level wired subs and use only my 12" Energy.

Now that the price has risen, I've been reading threads on the forum and have come across the rti4 speakers. It seems that the common opinion is that the rti4's (while slightly smaller and missing a driver) are better than the Monitor 40's for home theater applications (I know it's all about how my ear will hear it... but, just as a summary, the consensus seems to be that the older rti4's are a steal and, despite being older... are still a strong performer.

Right now, I can nab new rti4's for the same cost as Monitor 40's with the added benefit of not having to purchase brackets to mount them on a wall (the come with a built-in key hole... correct?).

Anyhow... what would a matching center be for the rti4's? It looks like the csi3 was previously recommended? That has vanished from the market.

Anyhow... any input, insight... or suggestions about any of this would be awesome.

Thanks!

T

rooftop59

Yes a csi3 would match great. A csi5 would be even better. They both come up used now and then. Or tye newer version A series would also match pretty well. Either way it will be a huge improvement!

27dnast

Thanks for the response...

I see that the csi5 is available from polk direct for $249 on ebay, new.

Is this reasonable?

Couple of questions...

First, off... can I mount the csi5 direct to the wall (and the rti4's) direct to the wall with the key hole mounts and not suffer from any weird sound issues due to close proximity to the wall (vibrations/boominess?).

Secondly... is the csi5 really the proper match for the rti4's... it appears to be a really powerful speaker... too powerful for the rti4's??? If I spend this money, I'd like to be sure they create a proper sound wall without one dominating the others...

Finally... about buying older speakers... I'm assuming all of these old models being sold as new have been sitting around in warehouses for years. Anything bad about that?

Thanks for your response!
Have a good one
T

rooftop59

250 isn't bad, although you may be able to find it cheaper on fleabay or audiogon or cl if you're patient.

The csi5 does have bigger drivers than the rti4s, but for movies that's actually a good thing as so much comes through that center speaker. I have a small sub attached to my center and its perfect and gets hammered by blu rays with bass heavy tracks.

I don't know about mounting to the wall, except to say that the bass will be a little heavy and vocals will likely sound chesty or congested. This is true with many full size bookshelfs.

One other option if you're looking to save money is to scour the used market for a pair of rt25is and a cs400i center, the older versions of what you're looking at. I personally prefer the older versions. But you will have the same potential issue with mounting.

Good luck

27dnast

How far away from a wall do speakers need to be to get rid of boominess?

Even if I purchased wall mounting brackets... wouldn't those only move the speakers a few inches away from the wall?

I'm wondering if I could discretely mounting a section of 2X4 on the wall and then mount the speakers onto that? That would move the speakers about 2" away from the wall... probably not a whole lot different than a traditional mount and the blocks wouldn't be visible.

Thoughts?

Erik Tracy

My first HT setup used RTi4s and CSi3 center - wall mounted:


Sounded just fine.

The nice thing about the RTi series is the flared power port on the rear - it is designed specifically to disperse bass port energy if close to a wall.

And if anything, the RTi4s benefit from some bass reinforcement.

Life ain't perfect - and so are HT layouts - be flexible, adapt, and do the best you can with the layout you have to work in.

nhhiep

make sure you plan ahead before thinking of mounting the CSI5, it's very heavy and deep. The RM center is nothing compare to it. I have the same RM system in the kitchen and really like it a lot.

FYI, you can have the CSI5 upside down to it points upward if you want to have it on the table below the TV, instead of wallmounting it. That is what I did. it would look ugly with a CSi5 sticks out of the wall.

ErikTracy's system above will probably sound the same if his CSI3 on the table and have it upsidedown. but since the CSi3 is not as deep as the csi5, you can get away with wallmounting it.

yes, the CSI5 will go perfectly well with RTi4. they have the same tweeter

27dnast

So... the conclusion.

First off, thanks for the replies. They really helped push me in the direction of purchasing!

I called the polk tech support to get their input. The guy I talked to said, much like all of you, that the csi5 would work... but he said that if he had his druthers, that he would go for a csi3... simply to match the size of the rti4's 5 1/4 mid woofers. He was concerned that the 6 1/2" woofers on the csi5 would be a mis-match for the rti4... and effect the overall quality of the sound.

I wanted to buy new... not used... and I couldn't find the csi3 on the net. That fact, combined with desire to have the R/L and C speakers wall mounted... I inquired about the csi A4 center channel.

The tech guy said it wasn't an exact match, for obvious reasons, but that it was close enough that it won't be noticeable.... and that my 12" energy sub would really help to fill-out the A4.

After poking around, I found a csi A4 from the polk store for $190... and I fetched the rti4's from J and R for $149. With free shipping... that's putting this little upgrade at a very modest $339.

I'm ***hoping*** that I am overwhelmed by the difference in sound quality between these 3 new speakers and the RM6750 fronts and center that they are replacing. Hard to imagine that the difference won't be anything less than significant!

Have a good one -

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

So... the conclusion.

I'm ***hoping*** that I am overwhelmed by the difference in sound quality between these 3 new speakers and the RM6750 fronts and center that they are replacing. Hard to imagine that the difference won't be anything less than significant!

Have a good one -

I think you are going to have a big grin of sonic satisfaction!

We have a saying here: Pics and a follow up - or it never happened! :biggrin:

27dnast

BTW, Eric...

I notice your rti4's are slightly angled inward. I have the rm6750's positioned the same, but only did so in order to give some direction because they are so small.

Will the rti4's require an angle? Or can I mount them pointing forward? My HT room is only 12 ft across and the rti4's will be roughly 8ft apart.

Thanks

codyc1ark

Nevermind....

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

BTW, Eric...

I notice your rti4's are slightly angled inward. I have the rm6750's positioned the same, but only did so in order to give some direction because they are so small.

Will the rti4's require an angle? Or can I mount them pointing forward? My HT room is only 12 ft across and the rti4's will be roughly 8ft apart.

Thanks

Personal preference.

You should experiment - that is why a swivel mount is worth the extra coin - you have the ability to change the tilt and angle.

27dnast

Erik... I have the AM40 mounts (which I believe are the same as the BT77's)...

Is it okay to drill holes and screw the speakers onto the stands???? Any tips??

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Erik... I have the AM40 mounts (which I believe are the same as the BT77's)...

Is it okay to drill holes and screw the speakers onto the stands???? Any tips??

Since the RTi4s have square cabinets, the side pinch brackets will hold the speakers snug - but for extra security, run zipties on the back of RTi4 thru the power port and zip them to the AM40 mounts - that way you don't have to drill holes into the speaker cabinets.

27dnast

Good idea. Thanks for the advice.

Did you pad your brackets at all before clamping your speakers? Or did you clamp them metal on wood?

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Good idea. Thanks for the advice.

Did you pad your brackets at all before clamping your speakers? Or did you clamp them metal on wood?

Friction tape on the pinch clamps and the bottom plate.

27dnast

Does that leave residue or stickiness on the speaker?

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Does that leave residue or stickiness on the speaker?

Nope - the adhesive side goes on the mount, the friction side has no residue - just a soft/roughness.

27dnast

Okay...

Did you use hockey stick tape... or did you go buy something wider at a hardware store?

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Okay...

Did you use hockey stick tape... or did you go buy something wider at a hardware store?

Ace Hardware store.

27dnast

Thanks for the tips... I appreciate it.

27dnast

Erik -


Not to beat a dead horse... but...

I think you had said you had RTi4's... but eventually upgraded to the RtiA3's? Is this correct?

Anyhow, what I am getting at is:

When I get all of my speakers, I will have RTi4's as the front L/R and a a CSiA4 as the center channel. The CSiA4 was recommended by the Polk Tech support because the CSi3 is tough to find.

Anyhow, they said this was a decent match because they share similar drivers.

You have a CSi3... no? If so, I'm wondering what happened when you bumped up from the RTi4's to the RTiA3's?


What I'm getting at:

I might have a little wiggle room in my budget and I see that I can buy the RTi6 bookshelf speakers from Crutchfield for $250... only $100 more than the RTi4's. My reservation is that the 4's have that 5 1/4" driver that is shared with the RTiA4. The RTi6's are larger and have the 6 1/2" woofer... which would mis-match with the CSiA4 (although crutchfield lists the CSi3) as it's match.

I know sound is all to the listener... but I'd rather not unpack and set everything up twice...

Any advice on this scenario? (anyone??)

Thanks.

T

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Erik -


Not to beat a dead horse... but...

I think you had said you had RTi4's... but eventually upgraded to the RtiA3's? Is this correct?

Anyhow, what I am getting at is:

When I get all of my speakers, I will have RTi4's as the front L/R and a a CSiA4 as the center channel. The CSiA4 was recommended by the Polk Tech support because the CSi3 is tough to find.

Anyhow, they said this was a decent match because they share similar drivers.

You have a CSi3... no? If so, I'm wondering what happened when you bumped up from the RTi4's to the RTiA3's?


What I'm getting at:

I might have a little wiggle room in my budget and I see that I can buy the RTi6 bookshelf speakers from Crutchfield for $250... only $100 more than the RTi4's. My reservation is that the 4's have that 5 1/4" driver that is shared with the RTiA4. The RTi6's are larger and have the 6 1/2" woofer... which would mis-match with the CSiA4 (although crutchfield lists the CSi3) as it's match.

I know sound is all to the listener... but I'd rather not unpack and set everything up twice...

Any advice on this scenario? (anyone??)

Thanks.

T

I think most would agree that once you start this 'hobby' - it is highly probable that you will eventually change and upgrade at some point. :biggrin:

If you can manage to scrape the coin together to go to the RTi6s, me - I wouldn't worry about the CSiA4 keeping up.

When I moved up to RTIA3s I kept my CSi3 and it did...just...fine.

You can always recalibrate your AVR if you swap out speakers (as you should), and you can always bump up the level of the center if you think it needs a nudge.

Or, stay with the RTi4s/CSiA4 and use the money to buy movies and music to enjoy!

27dnast

Can the speaker mounts (the pinpoint AIM 40... which I believe is the same as the BT77)... handle the larger RTI6? I see that the specs on the AIM 40 can handle the width and weight of the RTI6... but they are only rated to hold a speaker that is 13" deep. The RTI6 spec says it is 14" deep... (perhaps that extra inch is the power port)?


Also... my room is 12' wide and 17" long... (8ft ceiling).

Are the RTI6's too large for that space??? The seating distance from the speakers will be 14 feet.

I guess I'm okay with paying a little extra... but I don't want to buy something that isn't functional in the space that I have. Earlier, you had mentioned your RTi4's were fine (bass wise, when positioned close to a wall)... will the same hold true for the larger RTi6's? If they are mounted closed to a will, will the bass get muddy and distorted?

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Can the speaker mounts (the pinpoint AIM 40... which I believe is the same as the BT77)... handle the larger RTI6? I see that the specs on the AIM 40 can handle the width and weight of the RTI6... but they are only rated to hold a speaker that is 13" deep. The RTI6 spec says it is 14" deep... (perhaps that extra inch is the power port)?


Also... my room is 12' wide and 17" long... (8ft ceiling).

Are the RTI6's too large for that space??? The seating distance from the speakers will be 14 feet.

I guess I'm okay with paying a little extra... but I don't want to buy something that isn't functional in the space that I have. Earlier, you had mentioned your RTi4's were fine (bass wise, when positioned close to a wall)... will the same hold true for the larger RTi6's? If they are mounted closed to a will, will the bass get muddy and distorted?

The RTi6s would not, imo, be too big for your space.

Both the RTi4 and RTi6 will benefit from a subwoofer for both HT-movies and music.

The RTi6 and RTiA3 are the same depth and I used the BT-77 just fine with the zip ties for extra security/stability to keep the speaker in the mount - even lived thru an earthquake! :biggrin:

And since you are using an AVR - then by setting/experimenting with the xover frequency for bass management you can tune the sound to your liking -I would not worry about the bass being muddy/distorted - since with the AVR you are directing the sub to do that work.

27dnast

Alright. I'm done.

So, I started out with that crazy rm6750 configuration. Made some buys... arranging some returns. Here's what I'm ending up with:

New:

CsiA4 Center
RTiA3 R/L Fronts
FXi3 R/L Surrounds
RTi4 Rear Surrounds

Old:

s-10.3 800W 10" Energy Sub
Pioneer VSX21THX AVR


I now have a pair of Monitor 30's in my possession that I might return, unless I can sell them locally to avoid shipping and restocking.

I'm pretty excited. I'm expecting a majorly significant improvement over the set-up I detailed in the first post. FINGERS CROSSED!

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Alright. I'm done.

So, I started out with that crazy rm6750 configuration. Made some buys... arranging some returns. Here's what I'm ending up with:

New:

CsiA4 Center
RTiA3 R/L Fronts
FXi3 R/L Surrounds
RTi4 Rear Surrounds

Old:

s-10.3 800W 10" Energy Sub
Pioneer VSX21THX AVR


I now have a pair of Monitor 30's in my possession that I might return, unless I can sell them locally to avoid shipping and restocking.

I'm pretty excited. I'm expecting a majorly significant improvement over the set-up I detailed in the first post. FINGERS CROSSED!

Put the credit card down...and enjoy the sonic goodness.

Pics or it never happened.:biggrin:

27dnast

Pics will come. Some before and afters. It will take a week or so.

Did you use the Pinpoint AM15 to mount your center channel?

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

Pics will come. Some before and afters. It will take a week or so.

Did you use the Pinpoint AM15 to mount your center channel?

B-Tech BT15, so whatever the pinpoint equivalent is.

Or go cheap and just get some "L" brackets of the appropriate depth.

27dnast

The reviews on amazon for the equivalent bracket are kind of iffy.

Reviewers say the brackets aren't up to holding the weight... warping and bending...

I'm guessing you didn't find this to be the case.

Erik Tracy

27dnast wrote: »

The reviews on amazon for the equivalent bracket are kind of iffy.

Reviewers say the brackets aren't up to holding the weight... warping and bending...

I'm guessing you didn't find this to be the case.

For a CSi3....pffftt....they did just fine.