Upgrading Electrical Service - anyone DIY?

Serendipity

As summer is around the corner and I am looking into split-system A/C units for every room, I need to install dedicated circuits for each compressor and air handler. However, we only have 100 amp service here, and both the main panel and the subpanel I installed are full.

We are looking into upgrading to 200 amp service which requires moving 17 circuits from the main panel to the new panel. I figure it shouldn't be too difficult to move the existing circuits to a subpanel, get it inspected, and then connect it to the new main panel. After all, I installed a 50A subpanel a while back and in the process had to move a bunch of circuits from the main to the subpanel to make room (main panel was already full).

Pictures can be found in Post # 2 of this thread:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102110

So has anyone here done their own electrical service upgrade and how did it go? Any pointers for making the install go smoothly? I have underground service and need a new meter, the utility will provide the meter upgrade. I will buy a large, 40 space panel so I don't have to deal with tandem breakers and a crowded panel. Also have to get permits for the work and inspection after the install.

Thanks!

Zeros

Umm, pull the meter first.

I think you will be fine if you were able to install a sub panel. Just remember to label everything!

ben62670

Hire an electrician

txcoastal1

Number 1 question do you have 200 amp service cable coming to your house....you can build out a panel but it all depends what is coming to your CT "City Tie"

ViperZ

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Number 1 question do you have 200 amp service cable coming to your house....you can build out a panel but it all depends what is coming to your CT "City Tie"

^^^^ What he said. We are upgrading a crappy 60-amp fuse panel in my new house to a 200-amp breaker panel. Have to change the mast and the three cables inside the mast. Then local hydro company will change/upgrade the wires between the pole and the house.

CoolJazz

I would suggest you look at your existing loads before you change anything. Use an amp clamp and see when things are on what they are drawing. This will allow you to balance the load between phases to some degree. Just document the rough numbers and look at what you can do for keeping a reasonable balance.

Depending on the style of heat and so on, you can also try to keep an eye towards the noisy stuff being on one side and have the "cleaner" side for your audio!

Remember that your house is being fed by a transformer. One side of a winding is one phase, the other side of the winding is at the other end of the winding. The more balanced the system is, the lower the distortions on the power line. This leads to less harmonic junk being impressed on the neutral. And this is all good for your audio system!

CJ

maxima

All good info. I would like to add that if you're using any dissimilar metals ie aluminum service wire on a copper buss bar within the panel, don't forgot to put deox on the wire/connections otherwise it will corrode very quickly.

obieone

If you want to upgrade your service that's fine, but....

WTF do you want to install mini-splits in every room?
Either go window a/c's or get 1 mini-split system that'll serve up to 3 rooms?
Or conventional A/C with ductwork?

Let's discuss WHAT you're trying to do, before we pick the path to get there.

nadams

You will need to -

1. Get a permit for electrical work
2. Get the utilites to pull the meter
3. Get the utilities to either pass the existing lines for 200 amp, or replace everything from the pole to the meter (usually including the meter base).
4. Do the actual changeout of the panel, including relocating any lines that don't reach the new panel location, and installing new feed wire from the meter base to the panel (since it's probably not at all rated for 200 amp).
5. Have an inspector sign off on the job.
6. Get the utilities to reinstall the meter and reseal the meter base.

How long do you want to be without power in your house? A professional electrician can have everything and everyone involved lined up and ready to go, and have the job done in a few hours. I wouldn't feel confident that I could do it inside of a day, which means bringing everyone out on day 2 to get the power back on. (and spending a night somewhere else)

treitz3

Also, check with your insurance agent. There are strict guidelines that need to be met. In the case of an unfortunate incident to where anything electrical is found at fault anywhere in the future, you want to make damned sure you are still covered. Key words...."still covered".

From what I understand....when a licensed electrician does it, the liability falls on them and not you. What I'm saying is that you just want to make sure your back is covered "just in case".

decal

Hire a professional,please.

amulford

It's not at all complicated and I am sure you can do it.

That being said, I would farm it out just because if there is EVER a problem that would require the use of your insurance, you will play hell if you don't have documented proof a licensed electrician did it. Even if it's something you didn't touch, some asshat will say it's your fault and deny your claim...

nspindel

Actually, insurance is generally only a problem if you try and do your own work under the table, so to speak. At least in my state, Connecticut, a homeowner always has the right to do any work on their own home by themselves. That doesn't absolve you from needing to adhere to codes, get permits and inspections, etc. But if you pull a permit to do your own work, do that work to code, and have the proper inspections and sign-offs, you should be good with your insurance company.

This is something that I researched when I was doing some structural work myself in my home - removing a lolly column in the basement. I got a licensed mechanical engineer to provide raised-stamp drawings of the reinforcements that would be required, pulled a work permit based on those drawings, did the reinforcement work myself, got the city to inspect the work, then pulled out the lolly column myself (while praying the house wouldn't fall on my head...), and got the city to sign off the building permit and issue a certificate of occupancy. All kosher with the insurance company. I've also done electrical work under permit in my own home, got it signed off by the inspector and was given a certificate of occupancy. The key is to get a permit and have it inspected.

[Deleted User]

I just had my panel upgraded this past winter. My advice is to hire a professional. One thing you need to consider is inspectors. My electrician was explaining to me that depending on who you get they will always find something wrong with the job. This sort of thing is directed at a licensed professional. Just imagine if you get the wrong inspector and you are only the homeowner doing the work ? Not saying you would do a bad job but just will probably be under a higher level of scrutiny. Cheers. :cool:

stuwee

decal wrote: »

Hire a professional,please.

What he said ^^^^^

I-SIG

Be sure and check with your power company that your service wires are capable of 200A.

In many parts of Arizona, if your service entrance conductors from the utility aren't sized properly, you will have to pay the full cost of upgrading, including trenching, conduit and backfill.

That work could easily add $2k-5K to your project depending on the scope of the work.

Wes

George Grand

"Anyone DIY?"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!

Hoosierbronco

George Grand wrote: »

"Anyone DIY?"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!

All the time ... but I'm a well trained electrician with 15 years experience. :biggrin:

and no , I don't give out tips to homeowners because I will not take responsibility for your familys safety without doing the work myself.
I hope you understand .... some of the FRACKED UP shi'iate I have seen over the years leads me to this conclusion.
You are not as good as you think you are.

Something like 80 to 90% of all home fires are due to electrical malfunction and a vast majority of those malfunctions are poor connections.

Why is it that if a small puddle happens , people will call a plumber out on Christmas Day to fix it , but if there is an electrical issue that can/will burn the house down , Ahhh Fudge it , I can do it myself.
Man , if they knew what I know and have seen the aftermath , they'd be afraid to sleep in that house.

Off soapbox.

nspindel

Hey I'm not afraid to break out the mapp gas blowtorch if I see a puddle :biggrin:

apc

ben62670 wrote: »

Hire an electrician

+ a bunch

kevhed72

Somewhat related question - are you supposed to leave a certain number of circuits unused within your main panel...many houses come with 2-4 unused spots for breakers....

EndersShadow

kevhed72 wrote: »

Somewhat related question - are you supposed to leave a certain number of circuits unused within your main panel...many houses come with 2-4 unused spots for breakers....

Depends on how many circuits your panel has. If you have extra you can use them. I think they might leave extra's for just this purpose.

Otherwise you can connect up a secondary panel if your running out of space. I forget what its called but I have seen them used on TV before.

I am hoping to run 2 (or maybe even more) dedicated circuits to my HT gear in the basement of the house I will buy someday lol.

I want to pump enough juice in there to run some really really big stuff and not flip the breaker lol...

obieone

Sorry, but...:biggrin:

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iX3kxAA2L4Q&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hoosierbronco

obieone wrote: »

Sorry, but...:biggrin:

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iX3kxAA2L4Q&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Oh Hell yeah !The coolest! :cool:

Damn , I'd have to break out the code book and read up on panel fill , maybe see if they give a reason in the handbook. My best guess is , they like to see two open spots next to each other , one for each phase so you can add on a sub-panel properly. At least that way , the panel will still be properly protected by the main breaker.
Driving that assumption further , they openly state that they specifically do not list a maximum number of receptacles per circuit for a residence because they would rather see plenty of outlets on a proper breaker instead of homeowners having to use (cheap , $hitty) extension cords (zip cords=fire starters) because the cheap arse electrical contractor skimped on receps to keep prices down .
Lots of outlets on a properly protected circuit = safe
few outlets , lots o' extension cords = bad