Suggestions Carver TFM-35 vs. Adcom GFA-555

newbie308

My current 2 channel system consists of:
Techniques sl1200 mk2 turntable
AT440MLa cartridge
Cardas tone arm wire upgrade
Adcom GTA-500 II pre amp
Carver TFM-35
10 awg Parts express speaker wire (including interconnect)
Polk SDA-1a signature speakers

I have an oppertunity to trade in my Carver amp, and add some cash, to pick up an Adcom GFA-555. This my be a dumb question, but is this worth doing? I'm relatively new to the quest for better sound, and I don't want to make an uninformed decision that costs more and does not offer noticable improvement for the dollar. What do you think? I suppose that an Adcom amp would work better with the Adcom pre since they are from the same manufacturer. Does anyone here have experience with this?

leroyjr1

I'd get a listen first before you make the deal.

Joe08867

I don't think you will see any real difference other than the Adcom is not as Warm sounding as the Carver to me. The TFM is a really nice amp.

I have one question. Is this Adcom an GFA-555 or GFA-555II? One is common ground and one is not. The II is not common ground so you would not be able to use your SDA's with it without the AI-1 cable and it doesn't sound as good as the original IMHO.

I would stick with the Carver myself.

newbie308

GFA-555 not GFA-555 II. Thanks for the input Joe!

heiney9

Joe08867 wrote: »

I have one question. Is this Adcom an GFA-555 or GFA-555II? One is common ground and one is not. The II is not common ground so you would not be able to use your SDA's with it without the AI-1 cable and it doesn't sound as good as the original IMHO.

Both the 555 and 555II are common ground so no worries. The 5500, 5800, 5802 are not common ground, but rather than using the AI-1 you can strap the negative terminals on the 5500, 5800, 5802 to make them common ground.

H9

heiney9

Tough call, for me I'd choose the 555 as I don't really care for Carver amps, but experimentation is the key in this hobby. Nothing replaces first hand experience, it's all part of the hobby. You can't build your system soley based on what others say about particular pieces. At some point you have to just take the plunge and find out for yourself.

H9

newbie308

H9,
I do get that it is mostly about personal pref's, I wish money was not so tight these days or I'd buy the Adcom and do a side by side comparison. As it is I'd have to let one go to get the other.

Joe08867

Thanks H9, I thought the 555 MKII was in the non common ground group as well. Thanks for clarifying.


newbie, if you know the person selling the amp maybe you can do a side by side. That would probably be your best bet.

newbie308

Yeah! maybe I can invite him to bring the amp to me, and I'll supply the beer and food! Worth a shot!

treitz3

Just based upon my sound reproduction preferences and experience with both amplifiers, if I were you? I'd keep the Carver and not think twice about it.

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

Just based upon my sound reproduction preferences and experience with both amplifiers, if I were you? I'd keep the Carver and not think twice about it.

I'd go for the Adcom.........see newbie, this is why it's so difficult because we all like different things for different reasons. If you can atleast demo it in your rig, for even a few hours, it definitely would help you make a decision.

Actually your weak link, IMO, is your pre-amp. What are you wanting that your rig doesn't give you right now? Or are you just wanting to try something different?

H9

Timothy Smith

I had a Adcom GFA-555 and a Carver TFM-35 at the same time. Switched back and forth between them to try to find out which I should keep.

The Adcom won hands down, not a doubt in my mind. I sold the Carver.

Both were approx. the same age. Both original as far as I could tell.

Later bought a newer Rotel 1080 which (slightly) edged the Adcom out of my system.

My $.02

treitz3

heiney9 wrote: »

What are you wanting that your rig doesn't give you right now? Or are you just wanting to try something different?

Actually, we should have asked for his preferences first. Good call. He might be looking for something that the Carver doesn't shine at and the Adcom does.

newbie308

H9,
Asthetic's and curiosity are driving me. My equipment is far from the best, but it does sound fantastic to me as is! The Carver amp has a small scar on the face plate that isn't obvious, but I know it is there and it bothers me (OCD). The Adcom is cherry. Since the Carver is rack mountable it is wider than the other components and looks out of place in my system (More OCD). As I mentioned before, by going to an Adcom amp I suspect there will be better symetry between components (just a guess). Finally, the Adcom was made in America and the Carver was not. I'm not suggesting that the Carver is inferrior due to it's place of manufacture, but if I have a choice to buy American, I typically do.

TNRabbit

Higher TFM models were made in the USA (45/55/75) but you're right; the TFM-35 was made in Japan.

newbie308

H9 said "Actually your weak link, IMO, is your pre-amp."

I thought this was a well regarded pre?
I mentioned my main reasons for the intrest in the Adcom amp in the previous post. In regard to sound quality, the one thing that my system is lacking is deep bass. I have tried using a record clamp, and a cast acrylic mat for the turntable (I read that this improves bass response), but the bass is muddled and soft compared to the mid and the highs. I thought that maybe the Adcom would fill in better. I suppose I could test the system with a different source, but my heart was set on vinyl.

treitz3

Are you using any silver IC's?

newbie308

treitz3 wrote: »

Are you using any silver IC's?

No. I only have silver plated oxygen free copper interconnects. Do you think silver IC's will help? Who's do you suggest?

treitz3

Oh, no. Silver's will not help the bass. I asked because when I go from a silver based IC to a copper based one, the bass gets more prominent. In other words, stay away from the silver if you want an increased presence in the bass.

audiocr381ve

newbie308 wrote: »

H9,
Asthetic's and curiosity are driving me. My equipment is far from the best, but it does sound fantastic to me as is! The Carver amp has a small scar on the face plate that isn't obvious, but I know it is there and it bothers me (OCD). The Adcom is cherry. Since the Carver is rack mountable it is wider than the other components and looks out of place in my system (More OCD). As I mentioned before, by going to an Adcom amp I suspect there will be better symetry between components (just a guess). Finally, the Adcom was made in America and the Carver was not. I'm not suggesting that the Carver is inferrior due to it's place of manufacture, but if I have a choice to buy American, I typically do.

I was gonna respond to this by saying you're crazy for trying to fix something that ain't broke. You said it sounds fantastic, why change anything? But, sadly, I get it. I doubt that a new amp will give you what you're looking for. But this hobby is a great way to waste money trying :redface: IMO, it's 90% speakers. I don't know how many blind tests have to be done to prove this (Blind Test). But in your case, you might be looking for an extremely subtle (no one else would notice) difference, so whatever floats your boat

I'd be able to give you a nice review based on the GFA-545 and the Carver TMF-45, but my Carver is in for repair at the moment. They both would have the same tonal character as the amps you mention. I liked my GFA-545, but not enough to keep it. I ended up purchasing the Carver because of it's reputation for being a warm sounding amp. I'd take warmth over sparkly detail any day. I had to let the Adcom warm up for few minutes to tame the brightness when I used it (or maybe this was in my head). It's a solid amp. I think the 555 would be a great choice (if you didn't have a nice amp already )

heiney9

newbie308 wrote: »

H9 said "Actually your weak link, IMO, is your pre-amp."

I thought this was a well regarded pre?
I mentioned my main reasons for the intrest in the Adcom amp in the previous post. In regard to sound quality, the one thing that my system is lacking is deep bass. I have tried using a record clamp, and a cast acrylic mat for the turntable (I read that this improves bass response), but the bass is muddled and soft compared to the mid and the highs. I thought that maybe the Adcom would fill in better. I suppose I could test the system with a different source, but my heart was set on vinyl.

It's just an average pre-amp, perhaps a little bright and lacking definition. Also I don't automatically think mating Adcom pre's to Adcom amps means it's a great fit by default. I've had better results mating Adcom amps with other pre-amps with the exception of the 3 mentioned below.

There are 2 really nice Adcom pre's in the GFP-710 and 715. And one stellar pre the GFP-750. The rest while good, are not great.

Again, it's about experimentation and synergy. I was just throwing my commnet about your pre out there. It certainly isn't a dog, but you could do better and improve your sound.

H9

heiney9

audiocr381ve wrote: »

IMO, it's 90% speakers.

In my 30 years in this hobby both selling at retail and owning, flipping gear etc. I strongly disagree. Speakers are important but not that much more important than the other components in the chain.

Every time I moved up the chain with gear, especially source gear, I heard a marked improvement all using the same speakers. Sane is true for a lowly pair of Monitor 5B's. Using better gear, better tubes, better cables all made very audible improvements to the same speakers. I tried using "better" speakers with the mediocre gear (before I bought better stuff) and there was little improvement.

Granted if you have really poor speakers to being with (think along the line of current Bose offerings, or Cerwin Vega, etc....), better gear won't make that much difference.

H9

cnh

I own a couple of Adcom amps and agree with most people above. I find my 555 does like to spend some time 'warming' up before it gives up its best sound! Then, with a nice pre-amp, it can hang with a lot of more expensive pieces?

The Carvers I've heard have also been 'there'. Personally, I prefer my music 'warm' so I'd like to spend more time with a TFM-45 perhaps, especially after reading about Bob's designing that (and another series) to compete with Higher end amps. The only question I've had about Carvers is that they just don't seem to last as long without problems as my Adcoms. I have friends who've pulled their hairs out over how many times their Carvers have been in the shop.

On the other hand, a number of members here testify that their Carvers have never given them any problems?

Comparing a 545 with a TFM45 isn't really a fair comparison--power wise. The smaller Adcom is only 100Ws x 2 and the Carver 45 over 3.5 times that! You should really compare the Carver to an Adcom GFA-5802?

Also an addendum to H9s note about pres above. I have a Nakamichi CA-5 running my Adcom GFA-545 and I'm liking it more than most cheaper Adcom pres!

Either way, you're good. Enjoy the hobby...

cnh

treitz3

True, H9. I've had just an amplifier swap make or break a pair of speakers. While speakers are a very important part of the chain, everything affects everything. There is a big difference between the Carver and the Adcom.

treitz3

.....and they are not subtle.

Poee7R

I've owned multiple Adcoms and a few Carvers through the years. My favorite out of the bunch may surprise you. That being said, go for it, you wont know how it sounds til ya give it a listen.

One of my favorite parts of this addiction is trying new stuff. Some of it is going to sound great and really get ya going, other's not so much. We've all bought and sold that one piece that made or broke the synergy. Still kicking myself for letting my 2.3tl's go.

At the end of the day, its the journey. So again, I vote go for it. If you dont like it, flip it and go for something else.


Dave

heiney9

cnh wrote: »

Also an addendum to H9s note about pres above. I have a Nakamichi CA-5 running my Adcom GFA-545 and I'm liking it more than most cheaper Adcom pres!

Either way, you're good. Enjoy the hobby...

cnh

That's what I had running my 545, and it was the definition of synergy on a modest budget.

H9

newbie308

I was just perusing audiogon for preamps, and for a similar cost I can get the aformentioned Adcom GFP-750 or the Carver C4000-t. Maybe this is where my $ should be spent as suggested earlier. Thanks everyone for your input! This forum has been indespensible for guiding me on my journey.

heiney9

I must have missed it but I didn't see you mention a budget? Didn't realize you had $650-750 to spend. Also, the GFP-750 does NOT have a phono section so you'd have to add an outboard unit for add'l cost.

newbie308

Sorry must have been the 715 I saw. My bad.

heiney9

newbie308 wrote: »

Sorry must have been the 715 I saw. My bad.

715 is a nice sounding pre-amp and phono to boot. Just a thought to replace your pre. Not saying that;s what you should do.

H9