"No-Vacation Nation"

Jstas

Saw this article and it got me thinking.


http://us.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/05/23/vacation.in.america/index.html?hpt=Sbin

Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?
By A. Pawlowski, CNN
May 23, 2011 8:46 a.m. EDT

Let's be blunt: If you like to take lots of vacation, the United States is not the place to work.

Besides a handful of national holidays, the typical American worker bee gets two or three precious weeks off out of a whole year to relax and see the world -- much less than what people in many other countries receive.

And even that amount of vacation often comes with strings attached.

Some U.S. companies don't like employees taking off more than one week at a time. Others expect them to be on call or check their e-mail even when they're lounging on the beach or taking a hike in the mountains.

"I really would like to take a real, decent vacation and travel somewhere, but it's almost impossible to take a long vacation and to be out of contact," said Don Brock, a software engineer who lives in suburban Washington.

"I dream of taking a cruise or a trip to Europe, but I can't imagine getting away for so long."

The running joke at Brock's company is that a vacation just means you work from somewhere else. So he takes one or two days off at a time and loses some vacation each year. Only 57% of U.S. workers use up all of the days they're entitled to, compared with 89% of workers in France, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found.

Brock's last long holiday was more than 10 years ago, when he took a two-week drive across the country.


'Americans work like robots'

It's a totally different story in other parts of the world.

Nancy Schimkat, an American who lives in Weinheim, Germany, said her German husband, an engineer, gets six weeks of paid vacation a year, plus national holidays -- the norm. His company makes sure he takes all of it.

It's typical for Germans to take off three consecutive weeks in August when "most of the country kind of closes down," Schimkat said. That's the time for big trips, perhaps to other parts of Europe, or to Australia or North America. Germans might also book a ski holiday in the winter and take a week off during Easter.

Schimkat's family back in the United States teases her that she's spoiled. But when she tells Germans that workers in the U.S. usually get two weeks of vacation a year, they cringe.

"They kind of have this idea that Americans work like robots and if that's the way they want to be, that's up to them. But they don't want to be like that," Schimkat said.

"[Germans] work very hard, but then they take their holiday and really relax. ... It's more than just making money for Germans, it's about having time for your family and it's about having time to wind down."


No legal obligation to offer vacation

So what's going on here?

A big reason for the difference is that paid time off is mandated by law in many parts of the world.

Germany is among more than two dozen industrialized countries -- from Australia to Slovenia to Japan -- that require employers to offer four weeks or more of paid vacation to their workers, according to a 2009 study by the human resources consulting company Mercer.

Finland, Brazil and France are the champs, guaranteeing six weeks of time off.

But employers in the United States are not obligated under federal law to offer any paid vacation, so about a quarter of all American workers don't have access to it, government figures show.

That makes the U.S. the only advanced nation in the world that doesn't guarantee its workers annual leave, according to a report titled "No-Vacation Nation" by the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a liberal policy group.

Most U.S. companies, of course, do provide vacation as a way to attract and retain workers.

But the fear of layoffs and the ever-faster pace of work mean many Americans are reluctant to be absent from the office -- anxious that they might look like they're not committed to their job. Or they worry they won't be able to cope with the backlog of work waiting for them after a vacation.

Then, there's the way we work.

Working more makes Americans happier than Europeans, according to a study published recently in the Journal of Happiness Studies. That may be because Americans believe more than Europeans do that hard work is associated with success, wrote Adam Okulicz-Kozaryn, the study's author and an assistant professor at the University of Texas at Dallas.

"Americans maximize their... [happiness] by working, and Europeans maximize their [happiness] through leisure," he found.

So despite research documenting the health and productivity benefits of taking time off, a long vacation can be undesirable, scary, unrealistic or just plain impossible for many U.S. workers.


Little appetite for regulation

Critics say it's time for a change.

"There is simply no evidence that working people to death gives you a competitive advantage," said John de Graaf, the national coordinator for Take Back Your Time, a group that researches the effects of overwork.

He noted that the United States came in fourth in the World Economic Forum's 2010-2011 rankings of the most competitive economies, but Sweden -- a country that by law offers workers five weeks of paid vacation -- came in second.

De Graaf drafted the first version of the Paid Vacation Act of 2009, which would have required larger companies to provide at least one week of paid annual leave to employees. But the bill, introduced by then-Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Florida, in May of 2009, got little traction.

Opponents said that it would have a negative impact on business and that the government shouldn't get involved in the workplace in this way.

"You would have had the idea that we were calling for the end of Western civilization. Comments like, 'Oh, they're going to make America a 21st-century France,' as if we were all going to have to eat snails," de Graaf said.

"I'm in no way anti-capitalist, I think the market does a lot of good things, but the Europeans understand that the market also has its failings and that when simply left completely to its own devices, it doesn't produce these perfect results."

But is more government regulation the answer? The debate rages on.

Back in suburban Washington, Brock -- the software engineer who hasn't had a long vacation for more than 10 years -- is finally planning a real getaway. His 60th birthday is coming up in December, and he'd like to do something special, maybe go on a cruise to the Bahamas.

Will he be able to pull it off and get away from work? He's still not entirely sure, he said.

Why is this so? Besides what the article mentions, I'm having trouble stomaching the fact that people are afraid of being let go if they take vacation. Especially if 57% of the country takes the vacation anyway.

But they also said that there is no measurable distinction that shows a difference between vacation taking and no vacation taking benefits to the bottom line. They cite the U.S. as being the 4th most competitive economy and cite Sweden as being number 2. Dunno how they got that but, again, I'm left wondering if there isn't a measurable difference. Especially when you look at economies.

The CIA World Factbook (yeah, I know, you don't trust them but it's the most recent data I can find). The Factbook lists the following top 3 economies by GDP:

? European Union

---

15,900,000
1 United States

---

14,620,000
2 People's Republic of China ---5,745,000
3 Japan

---

5,391,000

That's in millions of USD. The U.S. has been faltering lately but if you forget about the silliness that is the European Union, the next largest economy is the great Red menace known as China and they are almost 3 times smaller. At the same time, it took the combined economic might of 27 sovereign nations in Europe to equal if not best the size of the U.S. economy.

We are tops on the list of no vacation time and our podium mates are the likes of South Korea, Japan and China where people literally work to death. Who is at the top of the list of economic strength? Not Sweden. The CIA Factbook ranks them at 21. They wouldn't even make an eliminator in the economy class.

So what do you think? Any merit to this article?

ryanjoachim

There's plenty of merit to the article, but whether or not there's any substance to the "facts" they mention, I can't say.

I do know that before I got into my current job, I was lucky to get 1 week a year in vacation, and I only got that by begging and pleading. Companies may "offer" the vacation time, but they do everything in their power to make sure you can't/don't take it.

Personally I think Americans are among the least-happy workers, but I have no facts to back that up.

cnh

Don't know where you're going with that John. The reasons for America's statistics, are probably due to 'more' than the fact that employers don't like to 'absorb' 4-6 weeks of vacation--as though that is some death knell to Capitalism...lol?

And China's double digit growth and Europe's and the U.S. stagnation have China leaping ahead in even as little as a decade and definitely in less than two?

Having worked in 'many' settings from factories, to offices to academia, there is NO doubt in my mind that the average American worker could produce just as much as he now does and still be given 4 or more weeks off a year. It's not his productivity that is in question, but probably the 'costs' that his employer would have to absorb in giving him that much PAID time off.

Having grown up as the son of working class immigrants and worked a few summers in a factory, I can tell you that a lot of American working class boys and girls don't like their jobs, their bosses or even their companies! Seen it first hand. And I've seen some pretty big companies treat their workers like disposable objects, inferior fodder to the Management that commands their labor. So if that's what makes people happy and productive more power to Corporate America. For me a lack of basic respect for 'labor' and an appreciation of it is the 'norm' for many U.S. companies--because they can get away with it.

We can argue about whether Europe or America is more productive but the Chinese are going to win that argument in the end. So that argument doesn't mean anything anymore.

cnh

Gadabout

Just talking about a snippet of the article:

"Americans maximize their... [happiness] by working, and Europeans maximize their [happiness] through leisure," he found.

Different philosophies and in turn this means a difference in priorities.

Americans are consumers. We are what we have. Productivity rates are incredibly high in the US. This is partially due to the amount of overtime worked. Most of the plants I go to there are always guys that want all the overtime they can get.

In Europe, it's not so much about what you have it is more about what you do with your life. Going to Australia, for vacation, might be considered more important to them. Where as Americans would tend to focus on working to remodel the house, get the car they have wanted, upgrade to the sound system they desire.

Another contrast would be that Americans work for the good life at retirement. Europeans live the good life now. Just a difference in what folks think is important.

That being said, I could certainly do with an extra week of vacation bringing my total to 6, but I have to wait another 5 years for that. My vaction is also use it or loose it. No rollover. I take all the time they give me.

Scott

sucks2beme

I was working with a guy from Turkey on a project. Yes, he's a citizen.
He asked his boss for two weeks off to take a trip back home to see
his family. Boss's response: "If I could go two weeks without you here,
you wouldn't still be on the payroll". We weren't working for any rinkey dink
outfit either, fortune 500. Current employer really pushs hard for single days off.
And they always have that important meeting or project on your day off,
so you can spend 2-4 hours on the phone. I took off last Friday afternoon.
I left my desk at noon-was back on the phone at 1:30. Finished up at
4:30. Gee, 1 hour off. Let's just say I was pissed. I've got a few minute right now waiting for access to something, but I'm going to pay for that later!

exalted512

I personally feel bad for taking extended vacations and on my last week long vacation...I found myself working as well.

Doubt I'd really have to do that with my new job though, but I still feel bad for taking a week long vacation, much less longer. Dunno why, just do.

When I worked at the stereo shop, any vacation hours you had left you could opt to get paid for them. It was a nice Christmas bonus in addition to my Christmas bonus

Do I think Sweden being number 2 and US being number 4 has anything to do with vacation time? Ummm...no...there's about a billion other factors that contribute to that.
-Cody

madmax

I'm too important to take vacations.

zombie boy 2000

I haven't had a vacation in over three years. This makes me sad.

tonyb

A couple things come to mind. First, our work ethic is what it is because of our history. Secondly, countries like Sweden,France,Germany, are fairly small thus having a smaller pool of talent to work with. Offering extended vacation time is a way of retaining workers and attracting foreigners to come and live there. Here in the USA, we pretty much have people waiting to take your job if you can't handle it. Being as large of a country as we are, we have a greater talent pool to dip into. We don't have to entice anyone to come live here, they come on their own, legal or not. Could you imagine the size of a company like GM or AT&T handing out every employee 5 weeks of vacation ? Would it be nice ? Sure, but not too realistic. We pretty much equate quality of life by our wallets, Europe equates it to leisure time.
Then again, if you mandate companies give out that benefit, they compensate for lowering corporate taxes, choosing to instead tax the individual up the arse for government freebies. You see what happened in Greece when you try to take away a portion of the freebies. Europe will have to change some of this if it is to survive, and us too. You simply can't keep borrowing from tomarrow to pay for today.
They live that lifestyle in Europe because of us really. When they get into trouble, we bail them out. We bail out their banks, and there governments. When the IMF gives them billions, who do you think is the major contributor to the IMF ? Getting off topic here, but it does relate to the European lifestyle that they have come to love and will fight to not have to give any of it up.
As far as merit goes, I dunno, pretty hard to compare apples and apples when we are a unique idea ourselves, but keep in mind, nothing is for free. You'll pay for that extented vacation one way or another.

WilliamM2

Could you imagine the size of a company like GM or AT&T handing out every employee 5 weeks of vacation ?

Maybe not every employee, but my father was up to 8 weeks a year when he retired from AT&T in 1989, not to mention sick days and personal days that would add another 15 days or so. I have relatives that work for GM right now, and they get more than 6 weeks a year. Even after the "bail out".

I get 4 weeks a year, used to only take two and cash the rest in. Now they force you to take it all, which is why I am on vaction this week, had to use it up. They still only let us have a week at a time, so no real travel most the time. And my boss has sent me emails two out of theree days so far, to my home email account no less. Very simillar to what the article states.

Tony M

Americans generally have nobody to fill in for them when they're off. Company managers usually can't do subordinate's jobs so the sqeeze gets put on the lowly workers to stay and therefore their bosses are never exposed as to their limitations and real worthlessness to their companies.
Whew, got it all in two sentences.

Now I know not all bosses are worthless, but I've seen my share and some actually hated to hear me want time off.

sucks2beme

Everybody is indeed one deep. You take a couple days off,
and nothing happens to your stuff. So every time there's a new round of
layoffs, stuff stops happening. Months later- problem.

tonyb

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Maybe not every employee, but my father was up to 8 weeks a year when he retired from AT&T in 1989, not to mention sick days and personal days that would add another 15 days or so. I have relatives that work for GM right now, and they get more than 6 weeks a year. Even after the "bail out".

I get 4 weeks a year, used to only take two and cash the rest in. Now they force you to take it all, which is why I am on vaction this week, had to use it up. They still only let us have a week at a time, so no real travel most the time. And my boss has sent me emails two out of theree days so far, to my home email account no less. Very simillar to what the article states.

Yeah, but pops earned it over a period of time. Imagine right off the bat, mandated 5 weeks paid vacation for every employee....companies could not afford such a benefit and if mandated, the costs would be tacked on to the service or product they provided. So in reality, who pays ?

Extended time off is no stranger in our culture, thing is we ask people to earn it,rather than hand it out as a benefit to anyone with a heartbeat.

quadzilla

Yeah, my boss told me flat out he hates people taking off more than a week, and doesn't like it when someone is gone that long. And then he wonders why people are burning out and quit left and right.

Frankly, I'm sick of this ****. Seeing how they treat workers for the same damn company in Israel is night and day. Like, I was on a hot deal last week where a helluva lot of money was on the line, and I was working with one of our developers to get a fix to a customer. His boss actually came in and told him to go home after what was about 2 hours overtime for him. My boss came to me and told me to keep working on a fix after what was 6 hours overtime that day for me, even though without the developer, there was exactly jackall I could do. So, and forgive the language, I'm **** out of here. Already started my search. Might not be much better anywhere else, but if I'm going to have to work these kinds of hours, at least I should be able to get about 50% more salary somewhere else.

Willow

I max out my vacation every year, never carry over either.

kuntasensei

My brother moved to Switzerland to work for a pharmaceutical company. He makes way more money than I probably ever will, gets 7 weeks more vacation than I do at my job, and even if they fire him, he's guaranteed a severance package that amounts to more than a year of my pay. So yeah... Obviously things are workin' a little more smoothly overseas. But the downside is that he has to live in Switzerland. Just sayin'... Give me the beaches of the Gulf Coast over that any day of the week! :biggrin:

Jstas

Willow wrote: »

I max out my vacation every year, never carry over either.

But you live in Canadia with the rest of the Canuckleheads. You don't count.

Jstas

cnh wrote: »

The usual stuff was here

cnh

Where am I going with it? Why are you reading more in to it than there is?

The question wasn't about who's more productive. It was about how vacation impacts businesses. I don't care about how productive China is. Honestly, the ONLY reason the conniving, thieving, copycat **** are anywhere near as productive as the rest of the world is because there are 10 times as many of them. They are more productive by default.

And your constant reference to the projections for the next 5-10 years? Yeah, bunk, dude. If the projections were ever correct, the U.S. would have folded and gone under completely 14 times in the last 50 years alone. Look back on our last 200-250 years and no one ever gives us the benefit of the doubt. We shouldn't be here if the "projections" were correct.

The problem with China's "growth" is that it isn't real. It's propped up by government subsidies and price fixing. They are already starting to see the negative effects of such things and it's only going to get worse. They are trying to rush head long in to a technology age with an infrastructure that doesn't support it. Think I'm wrong, look at the news stories coming out about 3 Gorges Dam.

China is such an anomaly that comparing it to any other country is futile. There is too much that is different about it all. They are doing the way the U.S.S.R. was doing. It's going to take longer to collapse because they have more warm bodies to drive the machine but it will eventually collapse. They are much more fragile than you give them credit for. All they need is for one major conflict to come out and they side with the wrong side. Their cash flow will crumble overnight because everyone will stop buying their junk and enforce embargoes.

And China has just recently shown growth. These work cultures have been fostered over decades. The U.S. and Japan have grown this way long before China ever stammered out of the stone age and adopted capitalist communism. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. is still the 800 pound gorilla in the economic playground. Nobody comes close.

But, that's not what this thread is about.

My argument towards productivity is concerning the claims in the article that vacation time and the amount of time off has no impact. They offer no factual evidence of the claims and the evidence I have found says different. The U.S., China, Japan and South Korea, where workers have incredible work ethics and are usually over-worked with much less vacation than their European, South American and African contemporaries, have significantly higher GDP's and stronger economies than those other countries. So stop taking things out of context and twisting my words to fuel your China love-fest. Especially since my argument is recognizing China for their efforts and not shooting them down.

exalted512

I'd also like to add...that for the first time since I was 15, I'm at a job where I don't lose money by taking off for paid vacation.

My first few job was hourly and no paid vacation (lifeguard). Worked at a grocery store for a few months, same thing. When I worked at the stereo shop, we worked 57+ hour weeks. So while I did get paid vacation, I'd lose those hours that would've normally been overtime. Plus, it was also commission based, so I wouldn't earn any commission for those periods. My last job with State Farm was similar. I was on salary + commission, so if I didn't work, I didn't get paid commission.

My current job is salary only, so as long as I have vacation hours, I don't lose any money...but after 10 years of 'you don't get paid (or at least not as much) if you're on vacation', it's hard to get out of that mind set.

Since this is my first year, I earn 1-day per month, but that increases over time.
-Cody

jinjuku

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I get 4 weeks a year, used to only take two and cash the rest in. Now they force you to take it all, which is why I am on vaction this week, had to use it up. They still only let us have a week at a time, so no real travel most the time. And my boss has sent me emails two out of theree days so far, to my home email account no less. Very simillar to what the article states.

I don't know what I would do with that much free time. After about 4 days I'm bored with the current vacation and ready for something else.

I did two weeks in Japan. I loved it but day 7 came rolling around I am just done with it. Ditto for France and England.

What I want is two weeks at home to work on stuff uninterrupted.

mystik610

A couple of years back I met some folks out in Germany and got to talking about vacations. They were taken back that we typically only get two weeks of vacation a year. And people in Europe have the audacity to call us Americans lazy! Say what you will about Americans, but you can't knock the good ole American hustle.

Vacations aren't entirely vacations for me either....I'm leashed with a company issued iPhone, and spent a good amount of my mornings during my vacation last week firing off e-mails and making calls!

edit: My wife (a nurse) managed to accumulate 600 hours of PTO. She could take close to a year of paid time off.

codyc1ark

I'm on a 'mini-vacation' starting today, and I'm typing this from my work computer, on the phone. (Tough to get away) The nice thing about the company that I work for is that if I do have to work a half a day of my vacation, then they'll pay me for that, and not deduct it. October will be my fifth year with them, and I'll go from getting 2.some hours of vacation per pay period (Every other week) to 4.47 or so hours every pay period, almost double. I feel like that is fair.

And by the way, when we go on vacation, I try to go places where I can't have a computer, phone, T.V., etc... That way I can't even try to worry about those distractions, this weekend will be three days on the New River, floating and camping.

Willow

Jstas wrote: »

But you live in Canadia with the rest of the Canuckleheads. You don't count.

I just think it is sad that people are affraid to take what is theirs. Heck, I'm taking 6months off with 97% of my salary paid next Jan as Parental leave....

Jstas

Willow wrote: »

I just think it is sad that people are affraid to take what is theirs. Heck, I'm taking 6months off with 97% of my salary paid next Jan as Parental leave....

Well, some people are in my boat. I want to take vacation but can't. Mainly because we are doing a complete infrastructure migration this year and I will be busy and "absolutely needed" according to my boss until the end of September this year. I'm hoping I can get a week off for Thanksgiving and the last two weeks of December off to compensate. I'm not planning on going anywhere, I just don't want to go to work. I'd rather just sit in the back yard, with a fire in the fire pit, burning things and drinking beer.

cnh

Jstas wrote: »

Where am I going with it? Why are you reading more in to it than there is?

The question wasn't about who's more productive. It was about how vacation impacts businesses. I don't care about how productive China is. Honestly, the ONLY reason the conniving, thieving, copycat **** are anywhere near as productive as the rest of the world is because there are 10 times as many of them. They are more productive by default.

And your constant reference to the projections for the next 5-10 years? Yeah, bunk, dude. If the projections were ever correct, the U.S. would have folded and gone under completely 14 times in the last 50 years alone. Look back on our last 200-250 years and no one ever gives us the benefit of the doubt. We shouldn't be here if the "projections" were correct.

The problem with China's "growth" is that it isn't real. It's propped up by government subsidies and price fixing. They are already starting to see the negative effects of such things and it's only going to get worse. They are trying to rush head long in to a technology age with an infrastructure that doesn't support it. Think I'm wrong, look at the news stories coming out about 3 Gorges Dam.

China is such an anomaly that comparing it to any other country is futile. There is too much that is different about it all. They are doing the way the U.S.S.R. was doing. It's going to take longer to collapse because they have more warm bodies to drive the machine but it will eventually collapse. They are much more fragile than you give them credit for. All they need is for one major conflict to come out and they side with the wrong side. Their cash flow will crumble overnight because everyone will stop buying their junk and enforce embargoes.

And China has just recently shown growth. These work cultures have been fostered over decades. The U.S. and Japan have grown this way long before China ever stammered out of the stone age and adopted capitalist communism. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. is still the 800 pound gorilla in the economic playground. Nobody comes close.

But, that's not what this thread is about.

My argument towards productivity is concerning the claims in the article that vacation time and the amount of time off has no impact. They offer no factual evidence of the claims and the evidence I have found says different. The U.S., China, Japan and South Korea, where workers have incredible work ethics and are usually over-worked with much less vacation than their European, South American and African contemporaries, have significantly higher GDP's and stronger economies than those other countries. So stop taking things out of context and twisting my words to fuel your China love-fest. Especially since my argument is recognizing China for their efforts and not shooting them down.

You're right John, this is not about China. And no, I don't have a love fest with it. And if you think that the projections there are wrong...wait and 'see'. I've seen this economy first hand and studied it. Enough said.

What I'm trying to ascertain is the 'politics' of the above. Which are becoming clearer. My argument. Productivity is 'not' solely tied to the fact that American Business has 'brainwashed' its workers into thinking that time off is a 'anathema' to free market progress. Studies have shown that the amount of time 'worked' can be 'reduced' and productivity unaffected by that reduction. Americans are made to feel 'guilty' about not being at work or working or taking leisure for themselves. I can even see this in my own profession where many of my colleagues work a seven day week, and through the summer burdened by remorse if they're not working. Of course, their families 'suffer' greatly for this--tons of divorce, dysfunctional marriages and children, alcoholism and drugs--the underbelly of all that investment in often 'unrewarding' activity that is put before family and friends out of 'fear'; fear of losing a job, of having someone else do 'better' than you and so on.

The point is. You could 'reduce' hours and time and still compete with the very best, since most people are not as productive throughout an entire work day as they are during certain periods. People need and do take time off to recharge. Simply look at the posts on this site during 'work hours'--the worker will find a way to maintain his dignity and sanity. In my field we refer to this as 'the weapons of the weak'.

I'm not busting your chops really. And I'm not particularly happy about China becoming the largest economy--for many reasons. The Three Gorges is not a representative example; westerners like to single out that 'madness' which was somewhat induced by a century of Chinese humiliation (see the history of that term) in order to demonize the Chinese Gov't so that 'we' can feel better about the gridlock we have in Gov't here at home--sure that was an insane project done out of vainglory and inferiority, but it's just one of hundreds upon hundreds of other more rational decisions. But, frankly, I don't care to defend 'state' based Gov'ts, ours or theirs.

What I want to see addressed is how 'unhappy' most workers are--with their jobs, their lives, their companies, etc. There is a lot of resentment across this country. And the question is why? If you put an unemployment 'gun' to someone's head, sure they'll work out of fear. But the field of psychology tells us that 'positive' reinforcement is more effective than 'negative' reinforcement. Yet most workers in the U.S. are 'afraid' of losing their jobs. And that is a 'good' thing? That's 'productive', I suppose?

Personally, I've found that 'respecting' the people under me works 'wonders', motivates them to work harder and do their best. Why can't American Business understand that it's not all about Mammon?

cnh

nadams

I got 2 weeks to start. On my anniversary this year, I'll get my 3rd week, after being here for 5 years. After that, I don't think I get another week until 15 years.

ryanjoachim

I work 9 months out of the year, and get 3 months of "vacation" during summer. Of course, I also only get PAID for 180 (give or take a few days) days of work. This means that even though I'm making a decent amount per hour (around $15), I gross just barely above minimum wage for the year.

Willow

Jstas wrote: »

Well, some people are in my boat. I want to take vacation but can't. Mainly because we are doing a complete infrastructure migration this year and I will be busy and "absolutely needed" according to my boss until the end of September this year. I'm hoping I can get a week off for Thanksgiving and the last two weeks of December off to compensate. I'm not planning on going anywhere, I just don't want to go to work. I'd rather just sit in the back yard, with a fire in the fire pit, burning things and drinking beer.

....and thinking of all your Canuck friends

mhardy6647

FWIW I think that many Americans simply take their vacation time in different ways than the European "let's all go on holiday for the month of July" scheme. For example, I believe that many American workers today take their vacation in the form of 10 minute "breaks" whilst posting to Internet forums while using company computers and IT infrastructure resources.

Wait, did I just type that?!


EDIT: heh, CNH already made this observation, more cogently than I:

cnh wrote: »

...People need and do take time off to recharge. Simply look at the posts on this site during 'work hours'--the worker will find a way to maintain his dignity and sanity. In my field we refer to this as 'the weapons of the weak'...

cnh

sucks2beme

Only during those boring meetings where I'm required to listen to
in case there are any "technical" questions. And I'm at home-
they are MY computers.

wz2p7j

Jstas wrote: »

Where am I going with it? Why are you reading more in to it than there is?

The question wasn't about who's more productive. It was about how vacation impacts businesses. I don't care about how productive China is. Honestly, the ONLY reason the conniving, thieving, copycat **** are anywhere near as productive as the rest of the world is because there are 10 times as many of them. They are more productive by default.

And your constant reference to the projections for the next 5-10 years? Yeah, bunk, dude. If the projections were ever correct, the U.S. would have folded and gone under completely 14 times in the last 50 years alone. Look back on our last 200-250 years and no one ever gives us the benefit of the doubt. We shouldn't be here if the "projections" were correct.

The problem with China's "growth" is that it isn't real. It's propped up by government subsidies and price fixing. They are already starting to see the negative effects of such things and it's only going to get worse. They are trying to rush head long in to a technology age with an infrastructure that doesn't support it. Think I'm wrong, look at the news stories coming out about 3 Gorges Dam.

China is such an anomaly that comparing it to any other country is futile. There is too much that is different about it all. They are doing the way the U.S.S.R. was doing. It's going to take longer to collapse because they have more warm bodies to drive the machine but it will eventually collapse. They are much more fragile than you give them credit for. All they need is for one major conflict to come out and they side with the wrong side. Their cash flow will crumble overnight because everyone will stop buying their junk and enforce embargoes.

And China has just recently shown growth. These work cultures have been fostered over decades. The U.S. and Japan have grown this way long before China ever stammered out of the stone age and adopted capitalist communism. Whether you like it or not, the U.S. is still the 800 pound gorilla in the economic playground. Nobody comes close.

But, that's not what this thread is about.

My argument towards productivity is concerning the claims in the article that vacation time and the amount of time off has no impact. They offer no factual evidence of the claims and the evidence I have found says different. The U.S., China, Japan and South Korea, where workers have incredible work ethics and are usually over-worked with much less vacation than their European, South American and African contemporaries, have significantly higher GDP's and stronger economies than those other countries. So stop taking things out of context and twisting my words to fuel your China love-fest. Especially since my argument is recognizing China for their efforts and not shooting them down.

If you already did your research and reached your conclusions, why did you post this on a discussion forum that is open for rebuttal and other opinions (when you apparently are not)? Seems like this should have been posted on a blog somewhere. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Chris