Sacd Or Dvd/a Player?

gmorris
gmorris Posts: 1,179
edited September 2003 in Electronics
If I were to purchase a DVD player with multi-channel audio play back, which format would you recommend? SACD or DVD/A? I am thinking of purchasing a DVD player, but I don't want to pay $1000 for a combo player.

Is anyone aware of an affordable (<$500) SACD/DVD-A combo player?
Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
Post edited by gmorris on
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2003
    Pioneer DV-563A
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2003
    There are a lot of good and not so good titles on both formats, with more being released all the time. You can spend less than $500 and get a decent universal player. Keep in mind that almost all newer DVD players are going to be equiped with 6 analog outputs, so that will take care of your DVD-a needs. Don't limit yourself to just 1 format.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited September 2003
    HOLY SHITBALLS BATMAN!

    $180? Is that thing a total piece of crap? Or would it actually be a good buy?
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2003
    Here is some "light" reading so you can decide for yourself if you are interested:

    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150437&highlight=pioneer
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • PETERNG
    PETERNG Posts: 918
    edited September 2003
    get the Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai, it playes both formats, also it's a great DVD player.

    Pioneer Elite - DV-47Ai


    DVD-Audio processing
    Multi-channel SACD (1-bit processing)
    192kHz/24bit DAC (DAC: Crystal)
    Legato PRO Pioneer's refined bit expansion technology for better music reproduction
    Six channel audio output
    Dolby Digital output
    DTS? output
    108MHz/ 12bit DAC allowing for noise reduction in the video bandwidth
    The Pioneer PureCinema progressive scan circuit
    Super fine focus digital filter
    Component frame DNR PRO (Professional Digital Noise Reduction)
    Mosquito noise reduction, cuts noise out of the image presenting a consistently smooth image
    Block noise reduction, helps to make the image compression noise invisible

    http://www.soundpros.com/pioneer_elite_home.cfm
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  • izafar
    izafar Posts: 819
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by gmorris
    HOLY SHITBALLS BATMAN!

    $180? Is that thing a total piece of crap? Or would it actually be a good buy?

    Unfortunately this is a total piece of CRAP. My friend baught it on my recomendation to built a two channel system using LSi7s. He is currently using an old Yamaha integrated. This player made the LSi7 sound horrible. We were first blamming the Yamaha Int for the bad sound, but then we experimented with an old sony DVD player as a source. There is a night and day differnce between redbook CD, DD and DTS sound quality between the too. My firend later on returend it to Cruchfield and got a Sony DVP-NS755V DVD/SACD player and he is happy ever since.
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Benchmark AHB2 - Benchmark LA4 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries Mini - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
    Ya get what ya pay for.

    Having the capability of SACD and DVD-A doesn't mean it will sound good. The quality of the DACs and the DSP affect the sound greatly.

    Spend the $$$ on a quality player, or suffer dismay and terminal upgraditis.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2003
    I never said it was good...just an inexpensive way to get into SACD and DVD-A. It is what it is. I prefer a SACD only CDP and have 2 pretty nice ones.

    On the other hand...since it is a pricey proposition to build a SACD or DVD-A library...an inexpensive player might be a way to go to see if the formats interest you before you spend big $ on a quality player.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited September 2003
    This Pioneer combo player intreges me. I don't care one shnit if it is crappy compared to a "High End" player. I don't want to spend $1000 for a combo. I am not, nor do I pretend to be, a pretentious audiophile. My system is still in the "I wish I had the money for this....." stage.

    Let me give some back ground as to where my system is going:

    I currently have a paif of Polk Audio R30's (which are the BEST speakers I have ever heard, & I paid $200 for the PAIR) My next purchase that I'm saving for will be an Onkyo TX-SR601 (approx. $500). I am also building my own subwoofers (some of you may remember the 2 page discussion on that about 3 weeks ago). Further down the line, I'll get a Polk CSi40 for front center, Polk R30's for surrounds, and a Polk CSi30 or 40 for rear surround. So, as you probably figured by now, I don't have much money to fool with, and Circuit City is my favorite store.

    So, now that some of you may understand where I'm coming from, is the Pioneer a total piece? I understand that it may not have top of the line components, but in the context of my planned system, does it work? That is the real question.

    I think I may give it a try.
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2003
    gmoris,
    Good on ya!! Sounds like you're putting a decent system together the right way...your way! Check out the Pioneer player, it might just fit into your system nicely!
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • TheGrayGhost
    TheGrayGhost Posts: 196
    edited September 2003
    gmorris,

    Everyone has an opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

    Best Buy has the Pioneer for $170 and a 100% refund policy. Try it and return the player if you don't like it.
    Best Regards, Cliff
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
    I'm sure the Pioneer will work as advertised.

    I guess my question is which is more important to you gmorris - a multichannel format, or high resolution audio?

    If all you want is to experience multi-channel music, the new DSP's in most AVRs are quite sophisticated and do a pretty nice job of simulating a true multi-channel recording (Neo 6 is good example).

    But if you want to exploit the differences in sound quality that the high res format can bring, it makes sense (to me) to buy a player with higher quality DACs. Many enthusiasts report a significant increase in detail, imaging, and overall sound quality when they switch to a player with better DACs or switch or an external DAC.

    I think at least some (not all) SACD and DVD-A discs are dual layer hybrid formats than can also play in regular DVD players, but without the benefit of high res. This is another option you should at least investigate and possibly consider exploring before you take the plunge. Has anyone else tried this?

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • TheGrayGhost
    TheGrayGhost Posts: 196
    edited September 2003
    ”But if you want to exploit the differences in sound quality that the high res format can bring, it makes sense (to me) to buy a player with higher quality DACs.”

    What DAC would meet your requirements? The DACs in the Pioneer are Burr-Brown DSD DACs with S/N of 118dB.
    Best Regards, Cliff
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,753
    edited September 2003
    It's not only the DAC's, other considerations include the transport, op amps, jitter clock, shielding, etc. These high-rez players are truly a matter of you get what you pay for and even the best of them can still be upgraded for even better performance.

    To answer the original question, the SACD format is IMO more flexible. Most discs are hybrid, so you can use them in any CD player, home or car. DVD-A is still trying to figure out how to put a CD layer on their discs and at this point it doesn't look like they can really do that.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by F1nut
    It's not only the DAC's, other considerations include the transport, op amps, jitter clock, shielding, etc. These high-rez players are truly a matter of you get what you pay for and even the best of them can still be upgraded for even better performance.

    To answer the original question, the SACD format is IMO more flexible. Most discs are hybrid, so you can use them in any CD player, home or car. DVD-A is still trying to figure out how to put a CD layer on their discs and at this point it doesn't look like they can really do that.

    HA!

    Most SACD's are NOT hybrid. I have only found a small number of them to be hybrid so it can be played on a CD player.

    DVD-A is awesome. Not that SACD isn't. DVD-A can also be played in ANY DVD player.

    gmorris, go for the inexpensive player. My brother in law has one. and it's good for an entry level multi-format player. I have a very old Toshiba SD4700 that I use for DVD-A. It sounds good. If you are looking only for DVD-A i'd look into the one I have the 4700 or the newer 4800 or here.
    SD5700
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
    Gray:

    Not all Burr-Brown DACs are created alike, and S/N alone is not the defining factor in the sound quality of a DAC. But F1 had a better answer than I could have posted, so I'll cop out and defer to the "what he said" pat answer.

    I know there are some real DAC heads on this forum that totally outclass me in that department who might be able to provide a very detailed answer.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,753
    edited September 2003
    I stand behind my statement that most are hybrid. The first SACD's produced were not, but that has changed. The giant behind this format, Sony, has retooled their factories to make all their issues hybrid.

    I, like the good Dr. will defer a detailed explaination of DAC's to the "heads."
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,753
    edited September 2003
    gmorris,

    Here is a used Pioneer DV-47A for under $500.00.....

    http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?homevdeo&1067277872

    Buying used is a great way to get more for less.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • gmorris
    gmorris Posts: 1,179
    edited September 2003
    very good info from all, thank you.

    As I don't plan to purchase anything for a while anyway, I'm in the position to wait & see. This Pioneer sounds like a perfect fit to ME. $180 is in the right range. I guess I'll see what is available in another 6 months.

    The good Dr. Spec brings up a point I hadn't really considered. Simply going multi-channel or going for the high resolution. I guess since my next purchase is going to be the Onkyo rec., I will judge the sound quality of my system at that time. If it is satisfactory, then a lower quality combo player should be just fine. But, if I desire a higher level of performance, I can just bite the bullet & get a higher end combo player.

    I thank all the forum members who contributed to my confusion & indecision again. (ha ha)

    Thanks,
    Greg
    Bob Mayo, on the keyboards. Bob Mayo.
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  • rwrvpem
    rwrvpem Posts: 32
    edited September 2003
    Denon just came out with 2 new universal players, the 5900 and the 2200. The 2200 costs around $650. I want to get a 2900, but may take a look at the 2200 to see how much of a difference there is in sound and capabilities.

    Rick
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    The quality of the DACs and the DSP affect the sound greatly.

    Doc

    Doc

    Do you have any documents regarding a direct swap of the cs8412 vrs the cs8414. I have done research which would suggest both chips work in the same socket. I would really like to know if this is true.

    1/4Twin
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    I know there are some real DAC heads on this forum that totally outclass me in that department who might be able to provide a very detailed answer.

    Henry, maybe you missed that part of my post. :o

    The only thing I know about DACs is that there are several grades of them - even from the same manufacturer - and the very best ones sound much better than the cheapy ones. I couldn't even begin to answer your question unless I did a bunch of research and even then it would just be regurgitation.

    Sorry 1/4 Twin. :(

    Ed
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
    http://drs.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=cs8412+cs8414./v=2/SID=w/l=WS1/R=1/H=0/*-http://www.sc-elec.demon.co.uk/chips.htm

    http://drs.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=cs8412+cs8414./v=2/SID=w/l=WS1/R=2/H=0/*-http://audiochips.net/?action=cs8412

    http://www.schuro.de/Daten/Crystal/8413_14.pdf

    http://focus.ti.com/docs/search/vparamsearch.jhtml?searchId=25921&tfsection=param_table&templateId=4&showAssociated=false

    Henry, maybe these links will help.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec


    http://www.schuro.de/Daten/Crystal/8413_14.pdf



    Henry, maybe these links will help.

    Doc

    check
    http://www.schuro.de/Daten/Crystal/8413_14.pdf

    first page under features is listed the answer to my question. Thinken about it,... I limited my surch to the 8412. We all make mistakes but thanks to our friend for keeping us from sinking.

    1/2 Twin

    I will now strart buying parts and upgrading my Audio Research DAC5.

    BTW
    The DAC5 has an SAA7360 bitstream converter. Can never have enough of them:rolleyes:
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited September 2003
    Originally posted by HBombToo
    We all make mistakes but thanks to our friend for keeping us from sinking.

    I had no idea what I was looking at, but I'm glad one of the hotlinks I found answered your question. Dumb luck on my part.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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