Led Zeppelin Question

squeeb

Okay, I heard yesterday on a local radio station how Led Zeppelin "ripped off" older blues musicians. I got to work and saw the thread about best bands and commented - I apologize to thesurfer.

I got some time tonight to look into it further (don't know why this stuff intrigues me). We hear on here all the time to let YOUR ears be the judge.

Maybe it was done all the time. Maybe it enabled them to get through their first few albums so they could write some great stuff later. Maybe it's been debated on here as much as cable, amps, etc. I had no clue and maybe others don't either.


<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zThdTAWQFAQ&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Toolfan66

No more of a rip off then Elvis. and they (LZ) always gave props to those who influenced them, it was never a secret..

dorokusai

Yeah, it's not really rock-n-roll news that they were heavily influenced, to say the least, by a number of well known and obscure blues artists. I'd say that Elvis was worse.

janmike

Not the first or the last time we see a rendition of a song. Question is, which one to you like the best? There is absolutely no question in my mind when it comes to Led Zeppelin. Rock on RP.

WGDB

They carried the single guitar and a singer "blues" forward into the Rock and Roll genre. It was fair game at the time ~ Led Zeppelin completely revisited the American delta blues literally turning it on it's ear. Large sound // Gibson Les Paul through a Marshall Stack ala Jimmy Paige, John Bonham banging heavy on the skins on his drums (had to be changed daily) and John Paul Jones backing it with a serious Bass roll. Legendary sound was revisited into the mainstream of Rock and Roll leading into what we now call heavy metal.....

comfortablycurt

Ripped off? Absolutely not.

They were very heavily influenced by many blues musicians, particularly the Delta Blues, such as Robert Johnson.

Fongolio

They "ripped off" some songs in the sense that they didn't give the original artists credit on the album notes. Some would argue that many of the "ripped off" songs were so radically changed that the no credit move was justified, however some songs like "In My Time of Dying" had lyrics that were nearly identical to the originals. "In My Time of Dying" was first credited to Blind Willie Johnson but was called "Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed". Bob Dylan covered it as well but called it "In My Time of Dyin'". It appeared on his first album and credit was given to Blind Willie Johnson, so yes, they did rip off songs by not crediting the original artists in some cases. They later gave full credit to the artists they covered on all their albums.

squeeb

Apparently I am the only one who has been living under a rock for the last 30 years.

To me, there is a huge difference between "influence" and a blatent copy of lyrics, riffs, and even song titles without giving credit. I like Van Halen's version of The Kinks' You Really Got Me better but they gave writing credits to Ray Davies (at least on my CD) even though they changed the song quite a bit.

It has changed my opinion about LZ as singer/songwriters. It appears others are fine with what they did. It's all good - it's Rock & Roll.

mhardy6647

It is well documented on teh interwebs that Robert Johnson sold his soul to the Devil at the crossroads of Highway 61 and Highway 49 so that he could learn the secret of time travel and journey to the late 1960s to rip off those songs from Led Zeppelin.

kevhed72

Every form of music 'steals' or is influenced by other forms of music.
The Stones were influenced by R&B heavily, and by Disco in the later years.
(yes, I hate to say it-Disco).

IMO - the greatest bands were "great" becasue they pulled styles from different forms of music later in their careers - good examples being the Clash and Talking Heads. The bands that seem to fade over time never figure out how to re-invent themselves or pull from different musical styles.

Alot of the pop you hear on the radio today in just the same re-hashed pop music from 5 or 10 years ago.

It all goes in circles...

thesurfer

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

No more of a rip off then Elvis. and they (LZ) always gave props to those who influenced them, it was never a secret..

Very true, everyone takes what came before them, and adds something to it, or, puts a twist on it, However i do agree, credit should be given where its due,,, I still however Believe every artist and group is Guilty of this,,to some extent, some more than others, But old news to say the least.

thesurfer

squeeb wrote: »

Apparently I am the only one who has been living under a rock for the last 30 years.

To me, there is a huge difference between "influence" and a blatent copy of lyrics, riffs, and even song titles without giving credit. I like Van Halen's version of The Kinks' You Really Got Me better but they gave writing credits to Ray Davies (at least on my CD) even though they changed the song quite a bit.

It has changed my opinion about LZ as singer/songwriters. It appears others are fine with what they did. It's all good - it's Rock & Roll.

Also, if it sounds better, at the end of the day,, Who cares, All artist, are Guilty of this, as stated before.

mrbigbluelight

Fongolio wrote: »

They "ripped off" some songs in the sense that they didn't give the original artists credit on the album notes. Some would argue that many of the "ripped off" songs were so radically changed that the no credit move was justified.

Very good point.
On Squeebs video, they mention Sonny Boy Williamson's version of "Bring It on Home" by Willie Dixon. He credited Willie Dixon, as he should have.
LZ didn't; they should have and paid for it (apparently out of court).

Other tunes are radically changed and fall into the "influenced by" category. Still think it would be nice to credit the source, IMO. But we should also remember that these guys are musicians, not lawyers.

As for "rip off" ? Here's what I consider the Primo Example of Rip Off:

From 1955, the original from Little Richard:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X7pjP_XkK4U?rel=0&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now, that tune was performed by Little Richard in the film, "Don't Knock the Rock". That's about the tamest version ever performed by LR; he had to "re-arrange" some lyrics so as to not offend the sensibilities of .... let's just say The Status Quo. The Status Quo crowd remain in their seats, occasionaly tastefully tapping their toes to the beat, but it can be observed that they are generally observing the norms of the Status Quo.
But The Status Quo really wasn't too comfortable with putting this music out over the airwaves. There was the 'real danger' of impressionable youths having their Passions Inflamed by this type of music. So, just to be on the safe side, we got this:

Tutti Frutti, Rip Off #1:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8UMHhkjYTck?rel=0&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There, that's a lot safer. Unlike Little Richard, Elvis is 'one of us'. Still, there was some rather untasteful hip-shaking going on there. This didn't come off quite as well as what we had hoped for.
So, just to be on the even safer side, we got this:


Tutti Frutti, Rip Off #2 (with apologies beforehand):

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vv-LAbMbEn4?rel=0&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There: that's a LOT better ! Sure, Pat's tie wasn't really secured in a tight Windsor knot, but .... well, those studio lights get pretty hot and all so I think we can allow that slight slip in dress etiquette.


Now that's what I consider a "rip off".
As others have mention, LZ has given a lot of interviews of the years and have mentioned the artists who have influenced them. That their legal/promotion 'managers' may have dropped the ball is another story.

scottyboy76

As well as being one of the dirtiest most corrupt businesses this side of prize fighting and real ripping off of many early artists, many of whom were black, it was very trendy for decades for people to claim ripoff when bands were simply using the basic form laid down by black musicians earlier, some were honest and credited their influences, some werent.

It really did not matter because some would always cry foul as if no one other than black musicians had a right to play a 4-4 beat.

Some direct ripoffs like any other money involved venture, and some duly credited artists influenced by blues musicians.

Bababouey

I am a fan regardless.
I would like to add that any Zep fans who have never heard the Jeff Beck Truth album, to give it a listen.
It came out a year before the first LZ album and was definitely an inspiration to Jimmy Page when he came up with the Zep sound.
Glen