DBX use in modern source/in vintage equip?

soundfreak1

Anybody using a dbx? Have a (1979 ish) DBX/3BX being restored and want to intergrate it into my 2 ch. Anolog sys. For cd and streaming. My thinking is I can get back some of the dynamic range lost in cd compression and in streaming! I know and remember using one of these (in the day) for tape and vynal with fantastic results. Just never used it with "modern" sourse's as they didn't exist then. Anyone with exp. In use this way? Would like opinions. Thanks

steveinaz

You can't restore dynamic range; once its lost in the transfer to the medium--it's gone. There's really no cure for CD's that are victims of the "loudness wars" except re-training audio engineers.

Do a search on "loudness wars" for more explaination.

IMO, you want to keep your system as simple as possible. Every component introduced into the chain, is just more electronics to get in the way of the original signal.

steveinaz

I experimented with a Pioneer Dynamic range expander in the early 80's--I didn't care for its "fluctuating" level changes in an effort to mimick dynamic range swings.

One external "processor" I did use extensively was the dbx pro noise reduction unit. I liked it far better than the treble-robbing Dolby systems of the time. I also had dbx pro built into my Teac X2000R reel-to-reel deck, and my Teac Z6000 cassette deck.

pitdogg2

I also had a cassette tape deck that had DBX noise reduction as well as Dolby C. Unlike Dolby C the DBX tape sounded like a terd on any other deck that did not have DBX if that was they way you recorded it so needless to say most of mine were taped in Dolby C. On the reverse if i recorded in Dolby C then tried to use DBX it would expand it so much that it was unlistenable kind of like a reverb setting maxed out. The tapes I recorded in DBX did sound great on that deck but only on that deck. I had a friend that had the same cassette deck but they did not sound good on his either. I do not think Pioneer made those for more than a year.

steveinaz

dbx noise reduction MUST be decoded by dbx capable machines; that's why your tapes sounded like crap on other (non-dbx) decks. dbx and Dolby were never meant to be used together/interchangeably.

pitdogg2

yes i know that some others do not. Still if you incode Dolby B,C or S those will play on any deck regardless weather or not you use NR not so with DBX. But as I also said even on the same brand but different deck some still would not play right either his or mine on each others cassette deck.

heiney9

Try it and see. I am a purist and the less "crap" in the chain the better. I would never consider using such a device, but that's just me. You can't polish a ****, if the recording is poor to begin with no amount of "after the fact" processing is really going to help.

H9

nguyendot

I had a 4BX that I tried too.. I agree it does nothing for the sound but make it worse and fluctuate. Do yourself a favor and ebay it, they fetch a pretty penny.

dorokusai

nguyendot wrote: »

I had a 4BX that I tried too.. I agree it does nothing for the sound but make it worse and fluctuate. Do yourself a favor and ebay it, they fetch a pretty penny.

They don't fetch all that much...usually $50-100.

stuwee

That's $50 or $100 you didn't have before for some great vinyl or that CD box set you've been eyeing. I never cared for the DBX expanders, I liked their noise reduction systems even less. There's a reason reel to reel decks don't use NR, it ruins the transient responces. Same with a TOTL cassette deck, Dolby C and especially S are great for low grade noisey tapes, but totally unnessesary with the good stuff.

I have friends that love it though, so if you like the sound, enjoy it

dorokusai

True but the term "pretty penny" doesn't mean 50-100 bucks in my resale book.

soundfreak1

If I remember correctly (as I used to sell these when thay were new) the 3BX is both encoder and decoder and though used mostly for r2r and cass. It was great with vynal as it would encode the dbx format on any source than decode it for play back in real time. Just wondered if anyone has used one on cd or streaming and what the results were .I agree with the minimlist concept as well but. Dbx will kick up passages of recordings that were suppresed in mixing and further compressed (virtully) out of existance in recording. Not like tone controls they don't color the music just. Expand what is recorded to a wider more dynamic range boosting only thoses passages dropped out in the recording and processing. If I remember it correctly?

dorokusai

A buddy of mine has every piece of DBX/Alesis gear known to man mastering his collection of vinyl to mini-disc. Don't ask. It sounds pretty phenom thru headphones and his Mirage setup. I have to disagree on the not dressing up a crappy recording as he does that pretty easily. I'm not sure of the exact signal path but I'll ask next time I visit.

That's not to say adding a 3bx means you're off to the races but depending on how you have your rig setup and "filter" and mix your music, it could be dramatic based on your expectations. I have a 4bx NIB in my stash.

soundfreak1

Once its finished I'm going to play with it, I don't expect it to" transform" my system as it dosent need transformation! Just curious in it as a tweek for CD players and CD themselves. Worse come to worse,Ill put it in bypass and enjoy the pretty lights! LOL. It takes me back to a time I enjoyed a lot. Selling audio in the late 70's and early 80's before marriage, kids ect. A SIMPLER TIME! Ahhhh the memories........

stuwee

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Once its finished I'm going to play with it, I don't expect it to" transform" my system as it dosent need transformation! Just curious in it as a tweek for CD players and CD themselves. Worse come to worse,Ill put it in bypass and enjoy the pretty lights! LOL. It takes me back to a time I enjoyed a lot. Selling audio in the late 70's and early 80's before marriage, kids ect. A SIMPLER TIME! Ahhhh the memories........

And that's what it's all about! Have fun!

soundfreak1

Wish they never quit putting big vu meters on amps! Always liked to watch them bounce!!!

[Deleted User]

Actually there have been a couple of dynamic range expander devices that didn't sound too bad. They were designed by, I believe, Robert Grabowski who built one under his own label. I believe the design was later used by Pioneer in their RG-1 and RG-2 expanders. Like most pieces of "corrective" gear they should be considered when the program source's limitations outweigh the negative veiling created by the correction process.
Cheers, Ken

stuwee

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Wish they never quit putting big vu meters on amps! Always liked to watch them bounce!!!

Yeah,the 'new retro' look went back to far with the little round 1930's meters, give me the big honkin' VU's from the 70's please! :biggrin:

jm1

I used and still have a dbx 3BX III dynamic range expander. This model also has the IR (Impact Restoration) circuitry.

If I was to restore and use a unit, I would look for one with the IR feature. This greatly improves the characteristics of the signal by restoring the initial transient if the music. The last generation (DS designation) of expanders also allowed compression of the source signal (maybe for early generation digital sources?).

When you use the 3BX, make sure the transition level is set so the signal is add/subtracted equally. This is very important for its proper use and best results. I always found setting the expansion level around 20% (with matching IR) was ideal as this increased the dynamic range but did not highlight the unit?s operating characteristics.

Any source can be expanded regardless of its initial dynamic range; even victims of the current loudness wars. As the expansion is a percent of the initial dynamic range, the amount of expansion will be less than content with a higher initial dynamic range.

Have fun with this!

Polkie2009

Lol, yea, wish I could__ find a DBX 3BX for $50 to $100 bucks. You can find the early model ones around $100 but the models after that are usually $150 and up. I think I saw one one fleabay go for something like $425 bucks, WTH??? What is up with people paying so much for them??? Gotta love those big old honkin' VU meters on the old SAE's:)

nguyendot

dorokusai wrote: »

They don't fetch all that much...usually $50-100.

Sold my 4bx for $300, but then again it's a much rarer unit than the 3bx

Polkie2009

I've seen the DBX 4BX easily go for $250 on up to $500 or so. You're right Nguyendot, they are rarer and from what I've heard, are excellent units. I hardly ever see the even rarer__ DBX 5BX, I think someone sold one on fleabay about 2 months ago.

joeparaski

Guys guys...you know I won't be able to resist posting a pic of my SAE amps. I've loved those amps since I first started buying gear in the 80's. (It's a meter thing)....if it ain't got meters..........

Joe

soundfreak1

Yea I've seen them all over the map as far as prices go! But the buter sets the price bt what he pays. I wish my parasound had the big vu's, don't make it sound better but sure looks purdy! Need some more lights at night--- red and blue dots and the glow of tubes is beautiful!!!!!

dorokusai

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I've seen the DBX 4BX easily go for $250 on up to $500 or so. You're right Nguyendot, they are rarer and from what I've heard, are excellent units. I hardly ever see the even rarer__ DBX 5BX, I think someone sold one on fleabay about 2 months ago.

I'm thinking of another DBX unit, 3BX most likely but even the last 4BX only sold for $177. You got a great price on that piece Nguyendot.

There are only a few pieces of DBX that sell for a lot of money....or a pretty penny. There was a 5BX sold for $600 and it is a more rare unit which is neat. At some point it's too much money and one should move on to the next advertisement. I've seen auctions go way out of line because folks get caught up in the process. My wife gets wrapped around the axle over them sometimes and I have to use a tazer on her.

stuwee

joeparaski wrote: »

Guys guys...you know I won't be able to resist posting a pic of my SAE amps. I've loved those amps since I first started buying gear in the 80's. (It's a meter thing)....if it ain't got meters..........

Joe

heiney9

soundfreak1 wrote: »

Wish they never quit putting big vu meters on amps! Always liked to watch them bounce!!!

Time to get with the times and use a digital music streamer like the Squeezebox Touch and get cool retro meters.




H9