New Receiver + external amp?

BWilberg266

So I am looking to upgrade my receiver/power and am curious what some of the first hand accounts are out there. I'm thinking of four possible scenarios

1. Onkyo 807(8)/1007(8) with an XPA-3 (or Acurus 3 channel amp)
2. Onkyo 3007(8)/5007(8) with no external amplification
3. Pioneer VSX-32/33 with an XPA-3 (or Acurus 3 channel amp)
4. Pioneer SC-35/37 with no external amplification

Now obviously some options are more expensive than others but I am willing to save a bit to make sure I am happy with what I'm running.

I have my Mac Mini to do my networking/streaming so I don't need DLNA although it would be nice, and regarding 3D, I plan on getting a new 3D player so I can have lossless audio and 3D as the PS3 doesn't support the lossless, so if need be I can get a player with dual HDMI outs, so 1.3/1.4 isn't a deal breaker for me either. Picture quality, sound quality, and reliability are paramount for me.

The equipment will be well ventilated as well. Just thought I'd mention it as whenever you mention Onkyo someone chimes in with how warm they are.

Any and all input is appreciated.

For room references, this will be in a room that is about 10x18 with 8 foot ceilings but it is open at three entry points into the rest of the home.

╔=======╦===╝ ╚======╝ ║
║ ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` X TV X` `║
║` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `║
║` ` ` ` `╠===╗` `couch` ` ║
╚==╗ ╔==╩===╩==========╝


(that's the room layout)

renowilliams

I'm not sure what your buget is but as a bluray player with great video/audio I suggest an Oppo BDP-93. This player is wireless and dlna compliant and will fill your needs. If you bought this player, to save in amplification,look at the used market for an older Pioneer elite reciever and a 2 channel amp ie: Rotel, Adcom, Carver, Parasound etc...



Tim

kappclark

I use an HK 3380 receiver as the preamp for a parasound HCA-500. The amp is technically less powerful than the HK, but it sounds better..

BWilberg266

Right now it is between the Oppo 93 and the Panasonic BDT310 for the new Bluray player. It's not that I don't have the money for the Oppo, but rather is the increase in cost from the 310 to the 93 going to be worth the dollar difference. From what I have heard so far the new Panasonic player is a great performer and can be had at about $200.

Regarding an older Elite model, do you have preference to the older Elites quality or is it simply in the interest of saving money?

BWilberg266

I suppose I should have clarified that I have a 5.1 setup and will need a receiver that can do the processing for that. (the shoddy layout I put together in my original post didn't allow for the placement markings of all 5.1, dang text based graphics)

And my total budget right now is about $1500, but should I need to save up a bit, I have no problem with waiting to buy the gear I am going to be truly happy with. (well at least until I get bitten with another upgrade bug)

cfrizz

Buy a receiver that has all the bells & whistles that you want it to have, then get a 5 channel amp of at least 200wpc @ 8ohms and you will be all set for power now & in the future.

An Emotiva XPA-5 will do the job and is good bang for the buck brand new as is Outlaw Audio.

For used keep an eye on Audiogon for Rotel, Sunfire, Parasound, B&K, Nad, Adcom.

Welcome to Club Polk!

renowilliams

BWilberg266 wrote: »

Right now it is between the Oppo 93 and the Panasonic BDT310 for the new Bluray player. It's not that I don't have the money for the Oppo, but rather is the increase in cost from the 310 to the 93 going to be worth the dollar difference. From what I have heard so far the new Panasonic player is a great performer and can be had at about $200.

Regarding an older Elite model, do you have preference to the older Elites quality or is it simply in the interest of saving money?

What older elite reciever you should look at will depend whether you want hdmi or not and what video decoding as well. For example, I have a 49txi which is a 2002 model without hdmi. That said, it was a flagship model that year and is a very powerful reciever. It origially sold for a lot of money. Any Pioneer elite reciever that meets your above stated criteria will work. The reason I suggested used as you can find some very capable units and have the money to get the oppo if you like and also have some money for a used amp.

BWilberg266

So it looks like I'm definitely going the separates route, but now the only question is with what receiver. I really like the 807 so far, but have also heard good things on the MCACC on the Pio's and likewise on the MultiEQ XT/XT32 that is found in some of the newer/higher end receivers from Onkyo. (Instead of Multi EQ on the 807)

Any thoughts on Onkyo vs Pio and the SQ differences would be appreciated.

EndersShadow

If your gonna spend the cash get the MultiEQ XT32, there is a massive difference in the amount of filters between the XT and the XT32.

Also think Marantz and if your ok w/ used Accessories4less for either your Onkyo or Marantz

cnh

According to Energy's site your speakers have a 91db efficiency and 94db for two RC-50s in the same room with a nominal resistance of 8 ohms?

Given those figures an Onkyo 1007, 3007, or 5007 should be able to power them well enough by itself?

The 1007 was the last year that the 100x series had pretty much similar amps and power to the 300x and 500x series. The 1008 was put on a diet, and though the specs claim that it still has the same power--don't believe them.

That's 130 to 135 watts of real power with 5 channels running there.

So that's something to think about. I own a Denon AVR-2807 and an Onkyo TX-SR805 (which is about the same weight as the Onkyo's above) and I can tell you that I hear a difference between those two power-wise even though the Denon is 110/channel and the Onkyo 130/channel. The Onkyo can run at full power all channels driven whereas the Denon cannnot.

As far as Pioneer vs. the Onkyo. Well, unless you get an ICE amp, the Pioneers will not compete with 1007 power. Having said that. The biggest weakness between the two is certainly NOT HT. It may lie in the slightly more musical quality of the Elites in two channel. So if you are concerned with that...do listen to some Pioneers and see what you think.

My advice would be to get a 1007 cheap and think about amplification after you hear that running everything first?

cnh

Cmiller

Why separates? Get the Pioneer SC-35 and see if you like it "you should" and if you think you need more power you can always add a amp later..but im sure you will have pleanty of power using the SC-35-37..Unless you have heard a Elite "ICE" ,you have no clue on how good it is..

BWilberg266

cnh...

Quality post as always!

I've been watching the prices on the ***7 series from Onkyo on A4L and the supply is starting to dry up. Right now they just have the 3007 and the 5007.

I'll have to give the 7 series some serious consideration.

BWilberg266

Cmiller

Just read your reply after replying to cnh.

I would love to hear the ICE amps with my setup. Only listening I've done is at BB with their lest then optimum setups. Don't think it really give's the SC a fair shake in that setting.

I do have to say I like all of the extra options you get with an Onkyo, but if the SC sound proved to be that much more superior it would indeed make my decision more difficult.

And to answer the question on separates, it would be a two pronged answer.

1. From what I have read, and listened to, separate amplification gives you an overall better SQ. Even if I'm only adding say a 2-3 channel amp it frees up the AVR to do less of the heavy lifting and opens up the other channels running off the AVR amp.

2. By going with a separate amplifier and a slightly less expensive AVR it makes upgrading a bit less painful on the wallet when it comes time to upgrade down the line. An amp will be able to follow along with whatever AVR/Pre you have, but you can't take the ICE amp section out of an SC should you decide to upgrade down the road.

pdxfj

I can add my 2 cents to this since I just upgraded to the 808 and an external 5ch amp. I got an older 5ch Sony ES amp from someone for a price that was too good to pass up. Was an impulse buy, but I'm very happy I bought it.

The person I purchased it from was running two of the Sony amps and the 5008. He was looking to reduce the amount of equipment he had and make things a bit more simple. After he had sold both amps and was only running off the 5008 I got an e-mail from him saying he somewhat regretted selling the amps because even though the 5008 is a beast of an AVR it didn't sound as good as the Sony Amps.

The 808 is only powering my back surrounds and the Sony is driving everything else (120x5).

I am very, very happy with how everything turned out. Very clean, nice open sound stage and plenty of detail.

BWilberg266

pdxfj wrote: »

I can add my 2 cents to this since I just upgraded to the 808 and an external 5ch amp. I got an older 5ch Sony ES amp from someone for a price that was too good to pass up. Was an impulse buy, but I'm very happy I bought it.

The person I purchased it from was running two of the Sony amps and the 5008. He was looking to reduce the amount of equipment he had and make things a bit more simple. After he had sold both amps and was only running off the 5008 I got an e-mail from him saying he somewhat regretted selling the amps because even though the 5008 is a beast of an AVR it didn't sound as good as the Sony Amps.

The 808 is only powering my back surrounds and the Sony is driving everything else (120x5).

I am very, very happy with how everything turned out. Very clean, nice open sound stage and plenty of detail.

Thanks for the added input!

Glad to hear that the amps opened things up, but the negative is knowing that even the 5008 is improved with the external amplification.

Realisiticly though, moving up to a 3*** or 5*** would be a significant increase in quality over my 1910. So maybe I make the jump to get the XT32 and enjoy that increase for a while, and should I desire more power (who doesn't) I can add an amp a bit down the line.

Hmmm :rolleyes:

pdxfj

I think just about any AVR will benefit from an external amp. He said his 5008 sounded good but there was a difference coming from the Sony amp to the internal amp of the 5008.

Also remember with the XT32 EQ setup you can have a professional calibration done where they take up to 32 points of reference in the room instead of the 8 or 12 using the included microphone. My memory on that is a little fuzzy so don't take it as 100% correct..

carwashguy

EndersShadow wrote: »

If your gonna spend the cash get the MultiEQ XT32, there is a massive difference in the amount of filters between the XT and the XT32.

There is a real world difference between these two, especially if you have or ever want to have multiple sub-woofers.

Sherardp

Put the Pio Elite SC35 on those speakers and don't look back. Those IceAmps are something special and deserve a listen if you have yet to experience them. They should power your setup effortless. If you decide to add an amp a few months down the road, your still good.

Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

BWilberg266

It seems one of my biggest hold-backs on the Pioneer is that there is no sub EQ'ing like there is on the XT32, but I suppose I can get a separate sub EQ which will do a better job anyway (I assume)...there are plenty of options for that out there.

The more everyone keeps raving about the ICE amps the more I really want to try these out.

Sherardp - I notice you've gone away from the ICE amps for 5 of your seven (that ICE powered Magnum 1000S is a beast by the way). Any specific reasoning?

EndersShadow

BWilberg266 wrote: »

but I suppose I can get a separate sub EQ which will do a better job anyway (I assume)

I dont know about that...... The SVS AS-EQ1 (which is what I would get) uses Audyssey as well, so its almost worth getting it built into the reciever... The only thing it does a bit better is you can hook up multiple subs to it and it will calculate them independent of each other I believe, whereas you would prob daisy chain them together to a reciever and XT32 would handle them as one entity...

But I could be wrong...

Cmiller

I have Multiple Subs running from my Elite SC-25,just used a Y spitter and used a SPL meter to dial the subs in..works perfect..

Sherardp

BWilberg266 wrote: »

The more everyone keeps raving about the ICE amps the more I really want to try these out.

Sherardp - I notice you've gone away from the ICE amps for 5 of your seven (that ICE powered Magnum 1000S is a beast by the way). Any specific reasoning?

I use the IceAmps on my fronts. Everything else is powered by a Sunfire. No specific reason btw. At the time I was shopping for an additional amp, it was either spend close to 3k for an Iceamp or 1400 for the Sunfire. The Pio SC07 still does the processing which sounds awesome. That plus shipping to Japan is usually the deal breaker.

bsoko2

I also don't use my ICE amps in my SC-37 and use it as a prepro. My amps are Sunfire signature Grand Theater and Carver M1.5t's.

BWilberg266

I have been reading pages upon pages of review, spec sheests, bench tests, forum opinions, etc. and I can't get past all that the Onkyo 5008 has to offer. I think I'm going to save my pennies for another month or so and go with that.

I really appreciate all that everyone has contributed here, it's been extremely helpful!

In the end I keep going back to a quote from the HT review of the 5008

"The TX-NR5008 had more of the right stuff when driving my Revel speakers. It did a better job of it than even a very powerful five-channel ATI 1505 amp I?ve used in the past. It offered tight, powerful lower midrange and that in-the-room presence you expect from fancier and far costlier setups. The jazzy drumming on ABC?s Castle really stood out; my daughter and I both commented on it at the same time. My recollection of the Pioneer Elite SC-27 AVR [Home Theater, March 2010] is admittedly hazy, but as much as I liked it, I definitely prefer the Onkyo?s sonics. Features and ergonomics aside (and the Onkyo kills most everybody else on features and ergonomics), the TX-NR5008 is the best-sounding AVR I?ve ever used, bar none."

tonyb

Go for it, it's a nice receiver period. Let us know how you like it after you get it all set up and gave it a good spin around the block.

EndersShadow

Heres the 5008 refurbed: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR5008/Onkyo/TX-NR5008-THX-Ultra2-Plus-Certified-9.2-Channel-Network-Receiver/1.html

But....I like the Marantz AV7005 better myself. Looks much cleaner, but it doesnt have XT32, only XT from what I see:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR7005/MARANTZ/SR7005-3D-Ready-7.1-Home-Theater-Networking-Receiver/1.html

Sherardp

tonyb wrote: »

Go for it, it's a nice receiver period. Let us know how you like it after you get it all set up and gave it a good spin around the block.

I agree with Tonyb on this one. If it's what you want, and you feel it will meet your requirements go for it. Definitely share your thoughts on it also.

BWilberg266

I'm just happy I've been able to decide on something :biggrin:

When looking at adding a new piece of gear it's exciting and fun to say the least, but somewhere in the middle of it all I start to get this feeling that I've done so much research that I'm more lost then when I began! There's always that fear that your going to get a serious case of buyers remorse after getting into your setup, but hey, that's what the fleamarket is for I guess :rolleyes:

pdxfj

You won't have buyers remorse once you get everything hooked up and dialed in.

I did have it and once I heard my speakers come alive with the new hardware I haven't looked back. Puts a smile on my face every time I listen to them.

To me research is half the fun, although I guess I get a kick out of reading those types of things. You've done the research and received first hand input from others here which is far better than any review site.

I think the 5008 will put a very big grin on your face.

Geoff4rfc

BWilberg266 wrote: »

I have been reading pages upon pages of review, spec sheests, bench tests, forum opinions, etc. and I can't get past all that the Onkyo 5008 has to offer. I think I'm going to save my pennies for another month or so and go with that.

I really appreciate all that everyone has contributed here, it's been extremely helpful!

I generally get a good gut feeling about something after doing tons of research on something, sure there's a level of fear that goes with making a commitment on a decent purchase.

It sounds like you have the same gut feeling and fear factor going for you.

Take the plunge and keep your eyes wide open.

BWilberg266

At this point I can say I feel very good about the decision. I am a glutton for research and details, and love studying up on things, some times to a fault. But I think that describes most of us, otherwise we wouldn't be on here to begin with!